How are your Custodes doing?

[Frostglaive]

Codex Adeptus Coustodes has been out for a whole 3 days now. Plenty of time for people to have played them and form opinions! Right?........ right?

 

Anyways, as the topic suggests, how are your Custodes doing? Working as well as expected? Better? Worse? What are your opinions on them at the moment?

[Stoic Raptor]

I have the Codex but won't have the models until this weekend. I want to start small (1000-pt Battalion out of 3 boxes of Guard) but even my 1500-point army will just be that + a box of Wardens + Trajann.

 

That said, I have no particular idea how to best play them, so I will be following this thread with great interest.

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Played my first game earlier today against an Ad Mech and Blood Angels list. We were playing the ITC Champions mission 2. I ended up getting tabled on turn 4. But I learned a bunch of lessons.

 

First, don't overload on characters. With the beta character rules, character blobs aren't nearly as safe as they used to be.

 

Second, mortal wounds are your enemy. 4 double shooting Kastelans with Wrath of Mars killed 2 shield captains and a warden in 1 shooting phase. And most of the damage was from mortal wounds.

 

Third, axes are far better than spears, especially when you have Valoris hanging around.

 

And finally, we really have almost no anti tank stuff. Melta missiles from the bikes just aren't going to cut it. We really need access to the 30k stuff but sadly it doesn't sounds like FW is working on it very quickly.

[dtse]

Yup. Custodes will not be competitive as a stand-alone force. It needs to be allied. Preferably with a force that gives both bodies and anti tank. Guard is the natural choice and they also contribute to forward hard hitting to the guard who would otherwise need to rely on scions.

 

Remember. Everything dies in this edition. No matter how tough. You will always roll 1s and invuln is 50/50. You are not invincible.

[Ishagu]

I expect Axes to be superior, hence I'm focusing on Wardens.

Bikers are a no brainer.

 

Unfortunately I won't play until the full army is painted lol

[Gentlemanloser]

I find spears to be better than axes.

 

Axes on characters. Spears on blobs. Cheaper plus the +1 wound roll strat is amazing.

 

My custards are doing very well. So much so that in my last match or chaos player said my opponent was only catching up to me because i wasted points on bringing grey knights as well.

 

Psychics are killer though. Never run pure AC! They need folk with them who can deny!

 

Well. unless you face necrons or sisters!

Edited February 5, 2018 by Gentlemanloser

[Stoic Raptor]

I'm of the same mind - the characters get the axes, the Guard get the spears.  Undecided on the Wardens but the points are there for the axes so I might as well.

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

Had five 2000 point games now. Three times I've tabled, one major victory and one minor loss. All different lists and I'm now about to start on the filth that is the jetbikes so I can only see that improving. Loving the codex very thematic and fun

[Dulahan]

Have two games under my belt now.  First of all was a 1000 point battle against Dark Angels Ravenwing with Scout Support to make them a Battalion.  

 

I -think- I won on VP, but all I had left was one Sentinel and my Dreadnought.  He had two scout squads with 5 men each.  The Sniper mortal wounds was just devastating to me.  My own list was far from ideal, since it was using models built for my 30k and 40k as of the Index rules.  So it was a lot of Sword and Board. (I had, IIRc, Allarus SC, normal SC, two 3 man Sword & Board squads, a 3 man Spear squad, and a Dread with Multimelta - I may be one or two normal guys off, but roughly that)

 

That said, even the so called 'not worth it' Sword and Board dudes are murder machines.  His Ravenwing, Sammael included, melted before my troops.  

 

My other game was 2k against Khorne Daemons.  I was CRUSHED in VP, but that's as much the vagaries of the tactical objectives I drew for the Maelstrom mission as anything else.

 

On the other hand, I was pretty much crushed in battle too.  30 strong units of Bloodletters are no joke.  My luck wasn't great, and his luck with those 5++ invuls was.  but still, the lack of any kind of explosiveness leaves us very vulnerable.  My 5 man spear squad managed to kill all of like 8 of them, I believe, before all being killed.  

 

By contrast, my two 4 man S&B squads had weird ones.  The first just got slaughtered by a flesh hound charge, thanks to bad rolls.  The second lasted a long time against Fleshhounds AND a 30 strong Bloodletter squad (with a little help from a Shield Captain and Vexilla) thanks to their 3++ saves working out very well for a long time, and the fact they weren't the ones getting charged.

 

It was, however, hilarious how easily I took down his Bloodthirster and Skarbarand.  Neither had a huge impact on the battle.  Skar in particular only managed to hold an objective for some VP and then got killed by 5 Allarus Termies on the charge, like, twice over if such things mattered.  Those dudes are no joke.  The poor Shield Captain never even got to swing. :p

 

It's possible, with some careful play I could've still tabled him with my remaining 5 man Allarus squad and the Allarus shield captain.  But everything else died.  But I think it would've been tough, and if I messed up and he was able to get a charge on me before I whittled enough away with my shooting and managed a charge on them they'd have died too. 

 

(Rough list: Allarus SC, SC, Vexilla, 2 Contemptors, 5 man Allarus squad, 2x4 man S&B, 5 man Spear) 

 

So yeah, Khorne is freaking terrifying, just sooooooo many high strength attacks that ignore armor saves.  I imagine a 'nid list with lots of Stealers would be similarly rough for us.

 

Now, as I said, in neither battle was my list even close to ideal, they were hastily made lists based on what I had assembled.  Hence no Jetbikes and more Sword & Board than I'd have liked.  But it did give me a good base to test out.

 

One takeaway is I'm not even sold on Contemptors in this army.  They're oddly, just way too vulnerable to large units in melee.  Sure they took down a Bloodthirster.  But with only 4 attacks and that's it?  They won't do much to a large infantry melee unit, and most lists that use those will easily get said Dreads into close combat too...  On the other hand, the Kheres is one of our best shooty options, and the Melta can't hurt versus big stuff either.  So it's sort of crappy.  I really hope our FW options are better choices.  Because I can't help but feel a similar points value of Allarus or regular Guardians is going to do just as much damage to big things (especially up close), if not more, and frankly, gonna be a much more effective thing against regular troops too.

 

The other takeaway?  Even Sword and Board is brutal.  Sure, they're mathematically worse than Spears and Axes.  But ANY Custodian is a murder machine.  So they're worse choices for sure, just not bad choices.  And that 3++ invul can really save your bacon.

 

The final takeaway?  Just as before there's no explosively 'good' turn for custodes, with the slight exception of doing really well on your damage rolls against things that don't die to 1 wound.  You're gonna kill "X" models every turn no matter what you're fighting, Gretchin or MEQs.  Period.  You can't do better.  Your expected result is basically your best result too... so it only gets worse.  That hurts, a lot.

[Mr. Funktastic]

I think we need to give it more time before we can definitively say pure Custodes are good or not. The jetbikes just came out on Saturday, some people are still assembling/painting theirs so you're not seeing many on the table just yet. And especially as one of our "bread and butter" units, playing without them is going to feel incomplete and very much missing a critical component. They would be an easy answer to all the horde problems people are encountering so far.

 

Play a few games with all our toys and then give it a week or so to decide. And that's without Forge World goodies which, hopefully, are on the horizon.

[DietOfLiquor]

Yah... I'm still working on building and painting up the 40k side of things to get something going. But I'm definitely going a patrol detachment only of Custodes and deep striking in the wardens and pushing forward some jetbikes. The main battallion I think is going to be primaris to give that anti-tank punch with a repulsor and some hell blasters with decent ranged weapons from intercessors. It's all theory right now, but should be fun.

[CaptainMarsh]

Had a 2k game, ran three squads of 10 Custodes each and two 'normal' HQs, plus a Vexilla for a +1 attack. Faced Khorne Daemons. Went five rounds, eventually murdered all of them. They performed well. Another game went less well but I won on VP.
 

Land Raider and Dreadnought are traps. Average Custode is a horrifying murdermachine. Bringing as many as possible to a fight is a path to victory.

[Gentlemanloser]

Anyone with 'decent' mortal wound generation will murder the AC.

 

Nids, Eldar, anyone with cheap smites. Heck Anyone spamming Snipers.

 

I don't think pure AC will ever be good. They just don't have enough psychic defense.

 

Not When smite is capable of dealing 6mw or more with a single cast.

[Crizza]

Sooner or later the Codex for the Sisterhood will drop, that should provide some psychic defense.

[Gentlemanloser]

Doesn't stop Biovores or Snipers though.

 

Smite isn't really the largest offender for mw generation. But it's the one being targeted.

[CaptainMarsh]

I'd expand that any army that has an excellent psychic phase is dangerous for a pure Custodes force. Psychic powers can make the strong weak and the weak strong. The 6+ FNP against mortal wounds in the psychic phase is better than nothing but won't save you. It is a problem Custodes players will need to accept as something they need to work around. It is also another reason why more Custodes can be a vital element to victory.

Not worried about spam snipers to a real degree. In my experience they can drop some mortal wounds but not enough to make Custodes shudder, while they otherwise can laugh off the effects of the snipers. 

In the end, Custodes have 3 wounds or more. Things can and will be able to take them out but it requires good rolling by your opponent to do so easily. And if he fails to do so, the Custodes chop everything to bits. Mortal wounds are the bane of all elite armies. With the exception of the Biovore, I don't see it being a monumental issue however. 

I have some games against Tyranids and Eldar this weekend. Should be exciting to see.

Note: I am expecting to get smashed by the Tyranid player. I cannot deal with them effectively regardless of what army I play. I doubt this'll be any different.:P

Edited February 6, 2018 by CaptainMarsh

[Kilofix]

Death Hex + Plasma from Chaos is a challenge

[Deadnaughty]

Had a 2k game, ran three squads of 10 Custodes each and two 'normal' HQs, plus a Vexilla for a +1 attack. Faced Khorne Daemons. Went five rounds, eventually murdered all of them. They performed well. Another game went less well but I won on VP.

 

Land Raider and Dreadnought are traps. Average Custode is a horrifying murdermachine. Bringing as many as possible to a fight is a path to victory.

I don't doubt that Custodes do pretty well against an opponent that can only deal with them in combat, where Custodes are at their best. Facing more mobile shooting armies is a whole different matter.

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

"I don't doubt that Custodes do pretty well against an opponent that can only deal with them in combat, where Custodes are at their best. Facing more mobile shooting armies is a whole different matter."

 

Have done twice now. Not really an issue with bikes and Allarus to deal with the not really relevant sniper threat. In many ways we are the tankiest counter punch force. They can alpha but you basically want to hide or withstand for a turn then you can overwhelm with attacks, movement and shooting to the dictate board control and leave the dregs unable to really hurt you. With careful placement of shield captains etc the dark reapers aren't as scary as they are made out to be

[Deadnaughty]

"I don't doubt that Custodes do pretty well against an opponent that can only deal with them in combat, where Custodes are at their best. Facing more mobile shooting armies is a whole different matter."

 

Have done twice now. Not really an issue with bikes and Allarus to deal with the not really relevant sniper threat. In many ways we are the tankiest counter punch force. They can alpha but you basically want to hide or withstand for a turn then you can overwhelm with attacks, movement and shooting to the dictate board control and leave the dregs unable to really hurt you. With careful placement of shield captains etc the dark reapers aren't as scary as they are made out to be

I completely agree, but note how my response was to a list without terminators or bikes and just a load of custodian guard.

[CaptainMarsh]

 

Had a 2k game, ran three squads of 10 Custodes each and two 'normal' HQs, plus a Vexilla for a +1 attack. Faced Khorne Daemons. Went five rounds, eventually murdered all of them. They performed well. Another game went less well but I won on VP.

 

Land Raider and Dreadnought are traps. Average Custode is a horrifying murdermachine. Bringing as many as possible to a fight is a path to victory.

I don't doubt that Custodes do pretty well against an opponent that can only deal with them in combat, where Custodes are at their best. Facing more mobile shooting armies is a whole different matter.

 

 

Absolutely, they can be a problem. In the game I won based on VP I faced Guard. Much of their army was beyond reach. The objectives, however, were not. And the Custodian Guard's ability to tank truly prodigious amounts of firepower from Guard meant that once I got to the objectives he was never really able to either shoot me off or push me off. 

 

I lost a higher percentage of my army than he did his, but I also beat him by over 10 VPs. Part of this is due to getting good tactical objectives. Another part is how absurdly hard it is to kill the Custodes. T5, 2+/3++ for a few guys and 4++ otherwise(when worked correctly), 3W is tough to deal with when you're able to bring enough Custodes that the loss of a few models isn't catastrophic.

 

If I know I am facing Guard I'm going to in the future reduce Guards, get some bikes with Hurricane bolters. 

[Sanul]

My Custodes did very good so far, but it has only been three games. The first was at the first day with the codex and I only had 686 points as a patrol (Shield Captain with Spear, 6 Guards with spears, 3 Allarus) included into a 1500 points army with my Sororitas. I had Celestin, one canoness and three troops of Sisters (one unit with 10 with melter, two units with melter in Immolator) and played versus Death Guard.

 

Then last weekend I played twice with 1500 points pure Custodes: 1 Shield Captain in Allarus, 1 Shield Captain on Jetbike, 3 troops of Guards (3 with Shield / 3 with Spears / 5 with Spears), 4 Allarus Custodes and 3 Praetors. The first game was versus Chaos Space Marines and Demons of Khorne. It was a massive slaughter fest I think. Shooting / Psionic phases were practically non-existent. In the end my Custodes could take more punishment (with a little luck, because I kept his Berserkers from charging with the Stratagem!) and I tabled his army at turn 5.

 

The second game right afterwards was versus a small elite army of Eldar. It was an intense match, where I was lucky to have a good battlefield layout and cover. I would had first turn, yet he stole it from me. Luckily the only unit he could shoot at was my Guard unit with shields, so only one Guard died. After that I teleported my Allarus and big Guard unit on his door step, advanced the Praetors and we would fight it out. The maelstrom cards were very balanced, and after 7 hard fought rounds I won by 21:17.

 

Overall I really like the Custodes. They are so tough! It took him everything he had, including several psionic powers (Doom f.e.), to take out 3 of my 4 Allarus Custodes on his second turn (of course I failed all my charges on my first turn!).

 

And I loooove the miniatures!

Edited February 7, 2018 by Sanul

[Alexonian]

this is how my custodes are doing :

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/qn715k.jpg

[wildweasel]

I see someone got themselves a 2,000 point army :)

[Alexonian]

I see someone got themselves a 2,000 point army

you know it