How are your Custodes doing?

[rcoon]

 

What are peoples suggestions for beating or at least drawing vs Iron hands? Facing triple leviathan, triple storm hawk, triple pred and three eliminators.

 

I have pretty much all our models except the super heavy flyers

 

All shields all the time.

 

Deep strike when you think you can wrap and tie them up. Otherwise, stay indoors, on objectives, with lots of shields.

 

I only have 11 stormshield boys and 2 vexilla with stormshields.

[Nemisor]

What are peoples suggestions for beating or at least drawing vs Iron hands? Facing triple leviathan, triple storm hawk, triple pred and three eliminators.

 

I have pretty much all our models except the super heavy flyers

 

3 x caladius to kill things that arnt leviathans (because you cant kill them) and hide everything else to cap objectives

[rcoon]

Issue is the Stormhawks get +1 to hit against flying units, and -2 to hit against them from flying units. They're a huge pain since all my AA vehicles are flying.

[Nemisor]

Issue is the Stormhawks get +1 to hit against flying units, and -2 to hit against them from flying units. They're a huge pain since all my AA vehicles are flying.

 

you could try telimons, but in all honesty custodes just cant touch a decent IH player/list atm. your other option might be to just load up on footstodes with deepstriking allarus squads. play the objective game

[rcoon]

Anyone tried a 2K list of pure jetbikes? 1 bike cap and 3 squads of bikes?

[BaconCouch]

Anyone tried a 2K list of pure jetbikes? 1 bike cap and 3 squads of bikes?

 

As i understand now, that used to be our best list. However, with the march of power creep, its no longer very effective. Just not enough bodies to really control the board, and you're doubling down on the elite nature of the army, making casualties completely back-breaking.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Pure bikes was the first attempt at full competitive. It didn't really work then and it sure won't work now with how much more common +1 to wound or ap2 and extra damage and mortal wounds are now everywhere.

[rcoon]

Played against the IH list and I ran:

 

Trajaan

Jetbike cap + warlord + relic

3 x Shieldboi squads (4+4+3)

1 x spearbois

1 x vexilla -1 with stormshield

3 x Pallas

2 x Caladius

1 x Vindicare for 2 CP

 

I got to choose deployment type and side, he got to choose whether to deploy first or second or go first or second (ITC mission 6 where you deploy your entire army at once).

 

He went first and killed all three shield squads despite them being in cover and within vexilla, as well as 1 caladius. I scooped at the end of my turn after I no longer held any objectives and shot everything at a single stormhawk and didn't kill it.

 

:cuss IRON HANDS.

Edited February 9, 2020 by duz_
Don't dodge the swear filter

[dice4thedicegod]

Played against the IH list and I ran:

 

Trajaan

Jetbike cap + warlord + relic

3 x Shieldboi squads (4+4+3)

1 x spearbois

1 x vexilla -1 with stormshield

3 x Pallas

2 x Caladius

1 x Vindicare for 2 CP

 

I got to choose deployment type and side, he got to choose whether to deploy first or second or go first or second (ITC mission 6 where you deploy your entire army at once).

 

He went first and killed all three shield squads despite them being in cover and within vexilla, as well as 1 caladius. I scooped at the end of my turn after I no longer held any objectives and shot everything at a single stormhawk and didn't kill it.

 

:cuss IRON HANDS.

But did he have a good time ;)

 

(I start to feel bad when it’s too one sided)

Edited February 9, 2020 by duz_
Removed swear dodge

[.Torch.]

Played against the IH list and I ran:

 

Trajaan

Jetbike cap + warlord + relic

3 x Shieldboi squads (4+4+3)

1 x spearbois

1 x vexilla -1 with stormshield

3 x Pallas

2 x Caladius

1 x Vindicare for 2 CP

 

I got to choose deployment type and side, he got to choose whether to deploy first or second or go first or second (ITC mission 6 where you deploy your entire army at once).

 

He went first and killed all three shield squads despite them being in cover and within vexilla, as well as 1 caladius. I scooped at the end of my turn after I no longer held any objectives and shot everything at a single stormhawk and didn't kill it.

 

:cuss IRON HANDS.

I had a very similar result first time I tried ITC. I tend to avoid Iron Hands if I can, although if there is no other game options at the club I go to (which is becoming more and more likely) I tend to end up playing anyway. I find the worse thing about the losses are the 'tactical advice' talks afterwards from my opponent, its like 'How am I meant to deploy better when your bullets go around corners?' Ah well, after club beers would probably be mad boring without the latest meta net list to complain about.

 

Also, I might be wrong on this, but pretty sure you only need to pay 1CP for your assassin as you haven't breached the detachment limit. I think you can take him in an Auxiliary detachment, although I'm not 100% as I tend to run 3 or 4 assassins for a full detachment in my lists. Not that the extra CP does much against Iron Hands.

Edited February 9, 2020 by duz_
Removed swear dodge

[rcoon]

I had a very similar result first time I tried ITC. I tend to avoid Iron Hands if I can, although if there is no other game options at the club I go to (which is becoming more and more likely) I tend to end up playing anyway. I find the worse thing about the losses are the 'tactical advice' talks afterwards from my opponent, its like 'How am I meant to deploy better when your bullets go around corners?' Ah well, after club beers would probably be mad boring without the latest meta net list to complain about.

 

Also, I might be wrong on this, but pretty sure you only need to pay 1CP for your assassin as you haven't breached the detachment limit. I think you can take him in an Auxiliary detachment, although I'm not 100% as I tend to run 3 or 4 assassins for a full detachment in my lists. Not that the extra CP does much against Iron Hands.

 

Ah I forgot the Operative strat was only 1CP. Not that it mattered, the first and only time the Vindicare shot at a character, he hit and wounded but the model saved it on a 6.

 

But honestly, it's not just playing against IH that feels massively not fun because the army is completely busted, it's also the fact that Custodes genuinely feel like they are in the top 3 worst armies in 8th right now. After I scooped we had a post match discussion and he agreed I had the better deployment and cover and there wasn't a damn thing I could do to improve my survival that first round. He was also surprised what little the Pallas and the Caladius did vs a T7 flying model even with rerolls of 1's to hit and wound.

 

He did make a valid comment though, he's been playing SM (not Blood Angels or Ultra) for years and they've always been absolutely trash and he's glad everyone knows how he's felt all this time.

Edited February 9, 2020 by duz_
Removed excessive quotes

[dice4thedicegod]

But honestly, it's not just playing against IH that feels massively not fun because the army is completely busted, it's also the fact that Custodes genuinely feel like they are in the top 3 worst armies in 8th right now.

.

 

Hmm, my feeling is that my custodes are ok against anything not new marines . They’ve handled Orks, genestealer cults and ad mech very handily. It’s just primaris that have the volume of shooting combined with rerolls and freebie ap modifiers and strats and litanies and special chapter traits.

[BaconCouch]

If you watch the Bridger Hann interview (went 5-1 with Custodes at LVO) 5 of his opponents were gunline marines (either Iron Hands or Imperial Fists).
He admits he played cagey, never won by more than a point or two, and generally hid most of the game. His list was like 80% storm shield custodian guard.

At the end, he says he's not going to play the army any longer. It was really depressing to hear. 

We need some help if we're ever going to be 'really' competitive again.

[rcoon]

If you watch the Bridger Hann interview (went 5-1 with Custodes at LVO) 5 of his opponents were gunline marines (either Iron Hands or Imperial Fists).

He admits he played cagey, never won by more than a point or two, and generally hid most of the game. His list was like 80% storm shield custodian guard.

 

At the end, he says he's not going to play the army any longer. It was really depressing to hear. 

 

We need some help if we're ever going to be 'really' competitive again.

After seeing the further nerfs to our FW units I'm not playing them again either. They're objectively bad now.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I literally don't understand what gw wants.

 

To sell models? Good luck when everyone is going to be dumping on their bad rules.

 

What is the point of forgeworld if they put their rules in the dumpster.

 

 

Guess I'm sticking with apoc for now where custodes are fun.

[MustertheCustards]

Played against the IH list and I ran:

Trajaan

Jetbike cap + warlord + relic

3 x Shieldboi squads (4+4+3)

1 x spearbois

1 x vexilla -1 with stormshield

3 x Pallas

2 x Caladius

1 x Vindicare for 2 CP

I got to choose deployment type and side, he got to choose whether to deploy first or second or go first or second (ITC mission 6 where you deploy your entire army at once).

He went first and killed all three shield squads despite them being in cover and within vexilla, as well as 1 caladius. I scooped at the end of my turn after I no longer held any objectives and shot everything at a single stormhawk and didn't kill it.

:cuss IRON HANDS.

I'd try dropping the Vindicare and the extra guys from your guard squads for another bike Captain, or for an Imperial Guard battalion, having the CP and screening helps round out the list aaaaaa bunch. One Vindicare is a cool unit, but usually worth if you're only taking one against a strong list. I also like the use the banner for the tanks. If people are investing enough firepower to crack a 3 man unit of of guard (2xspear 1×sword and board) that's usually fine with me. I also only run 3 squads like this. Keep the guard squads out of LOS if possible, and leverage the range of your tanks. It's not always possible, but I ignore big bad threats and try to slap efficient targets with my big guns. The big grav tanks are great against primaris and light vehicles, not so much against real armored threats. The bike Captain good at being durable and tieing up big threats, not so much offensively. That's a really hard match-up for Mono-stodes and you'll probably need to play a lot better than the IH to win consistently, depending on the list. I run something similar to your list, only with 2 banners w/ shields, a battalion of guard, 3xguard squads w/shields and an ordo malleus inquisitor. The guard screen/act as a meatshield depending on the matchup, the pallas go for t7 and bellow vehicles with a bike captain babysitter, and I ignore stuff I can't kill easily. Valoris and one banner babysit big tanks, I start the pallas in the other banner. IMO the big tanks are not worth it without the re-rolls for Valoris. My whole list revolves around creating imminent threats to buy the big tanks more time to crack their army open. Much harder to employ this strategy against an IH player, but I don't willing engage any unit that my guys won't bully. Hope this is helpful, it usually lets me feel engaged all game and gives me a reasonable chance to win, if not a strong one.

[MustertheCustards]

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [94 PL, 4CP, 1,761pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

Detachment CP [5CP]

 

Open the Vaults (1 Relic) [-1CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 180pts]

 

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 165pts]: Salvo Launcher

. Auric Aquilis

 

+ Troops +

 

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 150pts]

. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

. Custodian: Guardian Spear

. Custodian: Guardian Spear

 

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 150pts]

. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

. Custodian: Guardian Spear

. Custodian: Guardian Spear

 

Custodian Guard Squad [8 PL, 150pts]

. Custodian: Sentinel Blade, Storm Shield

. Custodian: Guardian Spear

. Custodian: Guardian Spear

 

+ Elites +

 

Vexillus Praetor [6 PL, 123pts]: Misericordia, Storm Shield, Vexilla Magnifica

 

Vexillus Praetor [6 PL, 123pts]: Misericordia, Storm Shield, Vexilla Magnifica

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Pallas Grav-Attack [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin Arachnus Blaze Cannon

 

Pallas Grav-Attack [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin Arachnus Blaze Cannon

 

Pallas Grav-Attack [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin Arachnus Blaze Cannon

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Caladius Grav-tank [12 PL, 210pts]: Twin Illiastus Accelerator Cannon, Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon

 

Caladius Grav-tank [12 PL, 210pts]: Twin Illiastus Accelerator Cannon, Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [13 PL, 8CP, 180pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

 

Detachment CP [5CP]

 

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Vostroyan

 

+ HQ +

 

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Display Astra Militarum Orders, Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Relic: The Laurels of Command, Warlord

 

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

 

+ Troops +

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]

. 9x Guardsman

. Sergeant: Laspistol

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]

. 9x Guardsman

. Sergeant: Laspistol

 

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]

. 9x Guardsman

. Sergeant: Laspistol

 

++ Reinforcements (Imperium - Inquisition) [4 PL, -1CP, 59pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Inquisitor [4 PL, -1CP, 59pts]: Blade of the Ordo, Bolt pistol, Malleus - Psychic Mastery, Ordo Malleus, Power sword, Psyker, Stratagem: Inquisitorial Mandate

 

++ Total: [111 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

[rcoon]

 

Played against the IH list and I ran:

Trajaan

Jetbike cap + warlord + relic

3 x Shieldboi squads (4+4+3)

1 x spearbois

1 x vexilla -1 with stormshield

3 x Pallas

2 x Caladius

1 x Vindicare for 2 CP

I got to choose deployment type and side, he got to choose whether to deploy first or second or go first or second (ITC mission 6 where you deploy your entire army at once).

He went first and killed all three shield squads despite them being in cover and within vexilla, as well as 1 caladius. I scooped at the end of my turn after I no longer held any objectives and shot everything at a single stormhawk and didn't kill it.

IRON HANDS.

I'd try dropping the Vindicare and the extra guys from your guard squads for another bike Captain, or for an Imperial Guard battalion, having the CP and screening helps round out the list aaaaaa bunch. One Vindicare is a cool unit, but usually worth if you're only taking one against a strong list. I also like the use the banner for the tanks. If people are investing enough firepower to crack a 3 man unit of of guard (2xspear 1×sword and board) that's usually fine with me. I also only run 3 squads like this. Keep the guard squads out of LOS if possible, and leverage the range of your tanks. It's not always possible, but I ignore big bad threats and try to slap efficient targets with my big guns. The big grav tanks are great against primaris and light vehicles, not so much against real armored threats. The bike Captain good at being durable and tieing up big threats, not so much offensively. That's a really hard match-up for Mono-stodes and you'll probably need to play a lot better than the IH to win consistently, depending on the list. I run something similar to your list, only with 2 banners w/ shields, a battalion of guard, 3xguard squads w/shields and an ordo malleus inquisitor. The guard screen/act as a meatshield depending on the matchup, the pallas go for t7 and bellow vehicles with a bike captain babysitter, and I ignore stuff I can't kill easily. Valoris and one banner babysit big tanks, I start the pallas in the other banner. IMO the big tanks are not worth it without the re-rolls for Valoris. My whole list revolves around creating imminent threats to buy the big tanks more time to crack their army open. Much harder to employ this strategy against an IH player, but I don't willing engage any unit that my guys won't bully. Hope this is helpful, it usually lets me feel engaged all game and gives me a reasonable chance to win, if not a strong one.

 

To be honest, if I ran your list I'd have died even faster. Without a multitude of stormshields basic guardians die horribly to any SM weapon with a hint of AP. The Pallas and the Caladius are also pretty useless against IH armoured vehicles because the LEV has T8 and the planes are -2 to hit on top of T7.

[MustertheCustards]

I'd ignore the lev, keep the tanks at their 60 inch range. The lev only has 24, and most of marine's firepower is 30-48 inches and not mobile. I'd maybe try slapping the planes with the pallas, but I'd probably just screen them out of optimal positions with the guardsmen. Just keep the guard squads out of LOS and make them maneuver to them. If you can't do that see if you can toss more LOS blocking terrain on the table. Whatever they can point at will doe if they point enough guns at it. Smoke all of his infantry and hide from the vehicles. If possible charge the levi with a palla, tie it up for a turn, better yet the bike captain.

[MustertheCustards]

The problem with big guard squads is they're not durable or killy enough to be worth the points in big squads. They're also harder to hide. If he's bringing a tournament list and play's competently, or if you're not having fun it may not be worth playing. Maybe he can take the Levi out of the list. Edited February 12, 2020 by MustertheCustards

[.Torch.]

The IH lists I've seen normally take more than one flyer. So they do have mobile fire power and it's virtually impossible to screen flyers and stay out of LOS with mono Custodes.

I wouldn't charge a Pallas into a Leviathan because I can pretty much guarantee it would never make it into combat. The Leviathan overwatch is absolutely killer. Although, I have been experimenting with using an Inquisitor to negate the IH overwatch with Terrify, I've never quite got close enough to pull it off, as the power is only 18".

I've had much success with the Pallas by keeping them at arm's length. Their range and speed make them annoying, but they aren't tough. I've had a fair few games were a reckless turn 1 has cost me first blood because of losing a Pallas.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think we can touch the top IH lists as a mono faction at the moment. But, as others have said, we can still hold our own against most of the other codices. I played 13 games last year with mono Custodes (I work at sea, so that's loads for me), and my W/D/L was 10/1/2, so it's not all bad. I won't tell you how this year is going though, because there's been loads of IH lists pop up at my local recently.

[MustertheCustards]

Just pretend to play the objective and kill all their characters instead..

[rcoon]

Had a lot of success last night (lost both games but points were close so my list and playstyle has improved tenfold). Played against IH list with triple lev, triple stormhawk, two whirlwinds and an invictor. Tau list was triptide with three commanders and a ghostkeel plus 30 drones and pathfinders.

 

Lost vs IH 18 to 14, lost vs tau 11 to 10, which sounds bad but WAAAAY better than any of my last games.

 

My list was:

 

Trajaan

Bike Cap +Relic +Superior Creation

 

2 x 4 guardians with shields

1 x 4 guardians with spears

 

vexilla with shield

 

3 x Pallas

 

8 x Aquilons with bolters and fists

 

Used DS on the termies, Trajaan and the spear squad. Both games the opponents left their deployments to get in range of the Pallas, so turn 2 I dropped trajaan, termies and guardians behind their key units. Pallas always died first but they were sacraficial in both games to get their big units (riptides and lev dreads) so far out of their deployment they wouldnt be in range of my terminators. Worked really well. Just needed some fine tuned actions to make it harder for the opponents to shoot everything. Tau were by far harder to deal with than the IH.

[MustertheCustards]

That looks like a really interesting list. I may have to finish my Aquilons and give that a shot. Functionally I go for the same thing in mine. Force them to deal with the Pallas and Bike captain to free up my big tanks. Glad you went toe to toe with some really strong lists, I've been looking for a reason to field more terminators. Maybe they changed it, but I'm pretty sure Aquilons are regulated to 6 man squads. I'm aslo not confident I could do as well against the flyer list with mine lol. Edited February 17, 2020 by MustertheCustards

[rcoon]

That looks like a really interesting list. I may have to finish my Aquilons and give that a shot. Functionally I go for the same thing in mine. Force them to deal with the Pallas and Bike captain to free up my big tanks. Glad you went toe to toe with some really strong lists, I've been looking for a reason to field more terminators. Maybe they changed it, but I'm pretty sure Aquilons are regulated to 6 man squads. I'm aslo not confident I could do as well against the flyer list with mine lol.

Sorry, Aquilons were two separate squads of four.

 

I just view the Pallas as a boogeyman distraction carnifex, and they're incredibly cheap. Both opponents immediately moved to strike at the Pallas so I just hid my shields guys on two objectives, and plonked the vexilla on a third with the three pallas and bike cap and baited both armies to come forward. By the end of turn two they were either within striking range of the pallas or already committing their forces to dealing with them, so I'd use the vexilla strat to double its range, charge the pallas and bike captain forward, do as much damage as possible and then just leave them to die - they had already done their job. At which point trajaan and 4 termies dropped behind the enemy's left flank, and 4 termies and spear guard dropped on the right, and then i dismantled both opponents backlines almost entirely, leaving only their main three units: LEV dreads and Riptides, neither of which I could kill with what I had left on the table. The IH player was so concerned with dealing with the Pallas and the shield bois holding points, his stormhawks were too far away to U-Turn and deal with the 900 points of fists taking their points.

 

The Aquilon lastrum bolters are *chefs kiss* at suddenly removing massive hordes of chaff.

Edited February 17, 2020 by rcoon