Alternative to Primaris

[Nathankorel]

Hello everyone! I’m a new member (although I’ve been reading you for years).

So I’ve been reading some of your posts, and there’s quite a bit of dislike for the primaris marines and everything surrounding them. I was just thinking that it could be an interesting idea to make a force ( call it chapter, band,company or whatever you want) of standard marines who, at a time, felt that they were being replaced, some of them having fought for centuries and all that.... and suddenly they are no longer the best warriors of mankind, just the “older shorter brother” of the Astartes family... So it could be cool to have some of this marines stealing some of cawls experiments, or experimenting on themselves (or even making a deal with this very old creepy Emperor’s Children apothecary..). And, in some manner, reaching primaris level of efficiency, while keeping all their wargear and relics and all that (they don’t necessarily need to be taller and wear my X

[Master Commander Ajax]

Posting in a Primaris lore thread is enough to make me break out in a cold sweat so I salute you and welcome you to the board.

 

If we were still pre-8th edition I would have said that any Space Marines meddling with their gene-seed and not suffering catastrophic consequences would have been a big no-no. However what with Cawls shenanigans in the current setting Id have to say 'sure, why not?'.

[Grotsmasha]

From a gaming standpoint, the only issue I see is line of sight. As long as the models sit on the table-top at the same height (basing high seems the best option) as Primaris, and your opponent is clear as to which model represents which unit, you should be all good.

 

My question is, (iirc) it's already said that oldstartes can be upgraded to newstartes, so why go behind he Imperium's back when it's offered anyway? 

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Lord_Caerolion]

From a gaming standpoint, the only issue I see is line of sight. As long as the models sit on the table-top at the same height (basing high seems the best option) as Primaris, and your opponent is clear as to which model represents which unit, you should be all good.

 

My question is, (iirc) it's already said that oldstartes can be upgraded to newstartes, so why go behind he Imperium's back when it's offered anyway? 

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

That was stated by one of the writers way back, I believe, but there's so far been no actual examples of this happening.

[Bryan Blaire]

My question is, (iirc) it's already said that oldstartes can be upgraded to newstartes, so why go behind he Imperium's back when it's offered anyway?

The problem with that is that nothing that GW has written, including the details on how a Primaris is made in the Index Astartes in White Dwarf, show any "upgrading" or offer of such. There have been numerous chances to have this, a perfect time would have been to have Dante upgraded to a Primaris, since he's regent of Imperium Nihilus (sp) and seems to be okay with the Primaris themselves.

 

In contrast, we only have one guy from GW ever saying anything about the possibility of upgrading, and nothing has been mentioned about it since, even though we know that's Chapters have the mechanisms and methods to make Primaris.

 

So either it hasn't been revealed that upgrading is actually possible, or it's not possible. We don't actually know, so we can't supposed that Marines would know either.

 

As far as the height - would using Primaris as standard Marines have the same necessity? Maybe mark a line across them where above that's line you can't actually see them because standard Marines aren't that tall? True Line of Sight is a pretty ridiculous concept when everything else, including the vehicle damage and firing mechanisms, are all abstracted.

 

All that said, we really haven't been shown modern standard Marines of any stripe attempting anything in the way of gene-seed modification. We don't actually know if they can, it is possible they have hypno-programming against that very thing, or their Chapter Cult or just standard Astartes beliefs would prevent it. It's even questionable just how much even Apothecaries really understand about the gene-seed, if they would even have the technical and equipment capabilities to actually perform such a modification.

 

Personally, I'd just run Primaris using the Primaris rules and say that they are standard Marines, or run standard Marines using the Primaris rules and just say they are standard Marines using in-suit modifications to get all the benefits.

[Grotsmasha]

 

From a gaming standpoint, the only issue I see is line of sight. As long as the models sit on the table-top at the same height (basing high seems the best option) as Primaris, and your opponent is clear as to which model represents which unit, you should be all good.

 

My question is, (iirc) it's already said that oldstartes can be upgraded to newstartes, so why go behind he Imperium's back when it's offered anyway? 

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

That was stated by one of the writers way back, I believe, but there's so far been no actual examples of this happening.

 

 

 

 

My question is, (iirc) it's already said that oldstartes can be upgraded to newstartes, so why go behind he Imperium's back when it's offered anyway?

The problem with that is that nothing that GW has written, including the details on how a Primaris is made in the Index Astartes in White Dwarf, show any "upgrading" or offer of such. There have been numerous chances to have this, a perfect time would have been to have Dante upgraded to a Primaris, since he's regent of Imperium Nihilus (sp) and seems to be okay with the Primaris themselves.

 

In contrast, we only have one guy from GW ever saying anything about the possibility of upgrading, and nothing has been mentioned about it since, even though we know that's Chapters have the mechanisms and methods to make Primaris.

 

So either it hasn't been revealed that upgrading is actually possible, or it's not possible. We don't actually know, so we can't supposed that Marines would know either.

 

As far as the height - would using Primaris as standard Marines have the same necessity? Maybe mark a line across them where above that's line you can't actually see them because standard Marines aren't that tall? True Line of Sight is a pretty ridiculous concept when everything else, including the vehicle damage and firing mechanisms, are all abstracted.

 

All that said, we really haven't been shown modern standard Marines of any stripe attempting anything in the way of gene-seed modification. We don't actually know if they can, it is possible they have hypno-programming against that very thing, or their Chapter Cult or just standard Astartes beliefs would prevent it. It's even questionable just how much even Apothecaries really understand about the gene-seed, if they would even have the technical and equipment capabilities to actually perform such a modification.

 

Personally, I'd just run Primaris using the Primaris rules and say that they are standard Marines, or run standard Marines using the Primaris rules and just say they are standard Marines using in-suit modifications to get all the benefits.

 

 

Soooooo, it's officially unofficial?

 

Who was the GeeDub employee? Writer as in BL, or as in Game/Codex development? 

[Lord_Caerolion]

I think it was in one of the Community videos discussing the Primaris, I can't remember exactly who said it though. Basically, back when the Dark Imperium boxed set was to be released, they had a video discussing the new Primaris Marines, and they made a mention that the standard Marines could be "upgraded". Since then, there's been absolutely nothing in either the codices or novels that show this as having occurred.

[Warpmiss]

I actually like the idea of regular SMs being able to upgrade to Primaris much better than what we have right now. The first Primaris we've seen could be a prototype and Cawl only decided to make them public once he was certain that all Marines could become Primaris without danger or something like that.

 

Not to mention that model-wise is a great excuse to start replacing the SMs lines for all-primaris lines and armies with both regular and Primaris Marines could be explained as guys who have gone through the whole process of Primarization and those who haven't yet.

 

In any case, it's a much more smooth transition than making the super-soldiers who have defended the Imperium for centuries suddenly obsolete.

[Nathankorel]

Wow! Didn’t expect to have so many answers really

[Race Bannon]

Dude, if Space Marines can be upgraded to Primaris Marines, that would solve soooo many problems in soooo many places.

[Roderikum]

Hello, brothers!

I also have my heart and brain split in two with all primaris stuff, so I understand your hesitate with all of them. Regarding the primarisacion process, if I remember correctly, wasn't the first batch of primaris astartes made with survivors of the Horus Heresy??

I can't remember where I rode about it, but that make me swallow them gentlier... Although they still choke.

[Blindhamster]

first batch of primaris were initiates that were picked to become legionaries but instead were taken to be used by Cawl accordingly to DI