How Best to Run My Guard

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I tend to make  lists using the DKoK rules, considering the fact that I have 2 different sets of Cadian models. I typically run my Kasrkin as Storm Grenadiers, with my normal shock troops as regular Krieg infantry squads. 

 

Now, I have to either ally in Elysians or C:AM flyers to use them, but that doesn't seem bad since I only use Valkyries and Vultures. 

 

I like the Krieg Rules, and their orders are strong as is their WS3+. 

 

Using my Kasrkin as Scions doesn't feel right from a lore perspective though.

 

Thoughts?

[Colonel Cross]

I use my Kasrkin models as Scions all the time. What else would they be?

[Tallarn Commander]

Why can't you keep using your 2003 sculpt Kasrkin models as Krieg Grenadier Storm Squad troopers as troops choices in a Krieg list? They certainly look appropriate what with their carapace armor and hellguns.

[Frater Cornelius]

I use Scions as Scions. I know, very imaginative. But boy, I’d LOOOOOOOOOVE to get my hand on 10 Kasrkins to run them as Scions, something like a more elite or distiguished group to fight alongside the regular Scions. Brings aome diversity into the list.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I can keep using them as Krieg grenadiers, strictly speaking. It just seems that the group I find myself with right now has some reservations about it. I guess because it’s not WYSIWYG?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I use my Kasrkin models as Scions all the time. What else would they be?

It just doesn't feel right from a lore perspective. It's more of the fact that GW has Ignored them. It wasn't so bad when we could give vets a 4+ Sv. The problem being that you have to take a separate detachment of MT to get the benefits now. It also bugs me because there is no way other than Krieg, to represent regimens that have elite troops with Carapace armor. Cadians have Kasrkin and Steel Legion has Grenadiers that are carapace and hotshot equipped troops in lore, but that isn't represented on the tabletop.

 

It's the way that MT just doesn't integrate well with existing lore, and the way current rules represent the guard as a whole. 

 

I'm also struggling with what rules to use from the codex. What rules work best for panzergrenadiers style play? Or am I using the best rules for it?

[Colonel Cross]

I'm not really sure what your question is.

 

Back in 3rd edition there were Stormtroopers and they turned into Kasrkin. They are now both out of print and the Stormtrooper name was changed to Militarum Tempestus Scions for, what I assume, trademark reasons. Both Stormtroopers and Kasrkin are still prevalent in many black library books.

 

True, vets got shafted by the removal of all of their cool options. So we have few unit options if we want dudes with carapace armor.

 

The Scion doctrine is marginally useful only if you employ them in decent numbers. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother wasting a detachment on them.

 

Bottom line is, Kasrkin models are sweet as hell (my favorite GW models of all time). So use them however you want. Fluff is just that, easily manipulated to fit whatever narrative you want. Just get creative and have fun with it.

[Withershadow]

I can keep using them as Krieg grenadiers, strictly speaking. It just seems that the group I find myself with right now has some reservations about it. I guess because it’s not WYSIWYG?

Funny, I use my Krieg Grenadiers to represent Scions. :D

[depthcharge12]

 

 

I can keep using them as Krieg grenadiers, strictly speaking. It just seems that the group I find myself with right now has some reservations about it. I guess because it’s not WYSIWYG?

Funny, I use my Krieg Grenadiers to represent Scions. :D

“Hello? Withershadow’s coordinates? Yeah, expect a barrage of bunker busters fired from an artillery battery in the next couple seconds here...”

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The Scion doctrine is marginally useful only if you employ them in decent numbers. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother wasting a detachment on them.

What do you consider decent numbers? I have 4x 10 man squads of them.  

[Frater Cornelius]

I think the bonus of MT goes beyond just their doctrine. For starters, all your infantry can deep strike. You can maximize that without having to worry other troops slots.

 

How many? Dunno. You want to maximize special weapons. I have 20 dudes plus a command squad. The doctrine is noticeable with these sort of numbers already. Try out something you like and see how it feels ;)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Thanks for your responses guys. My biggest concern was that I'm heavily invested in the Cadia. My infantry squads are Cadian Shock Troops, my Scions/Grenadiers are Kasrkin, I have Creed and Kell, and like to use Pask (even though I do not have his model). 

 

Also, the original issue has been resolved. It was because of WYSIWYG concerns. Seems that he thought I was trying to proxy my Army as something else, rather than using different crunch to represent my fluff. Turns out, we have the same opinions about proxying. 

 

Now, Is it just me, or can DKoK make use of non-regiment specific relics?

[robofish7591]

I would say they can, they are Astra Militarum after all!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So, this is a bit of thread necro, but worth it.

 

I got a game in using DKoK rules. I have to say it was a bit underwhelming. Granted, I had my opponent mostly beaten by turn 2, and I never got to use my infantry. This is why I'm saying I was underwhelmed. The FW regiments don't have any roll manipulation, and the primary buffs to DKoK seem to be focused on infantry. 

 

I have used Cadian Rules before, and I'm really in favor of using Pask, Creed, and Kell. It seems to me though, that Cadians are best suited to gunlines, but is that really the case?

 

Should I run my Kasrkin as embedded scions to be my mobile infantry while my cadian squads sit in the "trenches"?

[CrusherJoe]

Cadians perform best as a static gunline, yes. The problem is just that: you want them to stay still for that sweet re-rolling 1s (or re-roll all hits with Take Aim) and so the temptation is there to keep them still. 

 

I tested a list with a battalion of Scions last night and it was fantastic. Movement options! Deep strike! Hot plasma death all over the table! I ran 2x Primes with pimp cane, 3x Troops with 2x plasma guns and plasma pistol, and 2x Command Squads with all plasma. It was entertaining.

[depthcharge12]

So, this is a bit of thread necro, but worth it.

 

I got a game in using DKoK rules. I have to say it was a bit underwhelming. Granted, I had my opponent mostly beaten by turn 2, and I never got to use my infantry. This is why I'm saying I was underwhelmed. The FW regiments don't have any roll manipulation, and the primary buffs to DKoK seem to be focused on infantry.

 

I have used Cadian Rules before, and I'm really in favor of using Pask, Creed, and Kell. It seems to me though, that Cadians are best suited to gunlines, but is that really the case?

 

Should I run my Kasrkin as embedded scions to be my mobile infantry while my cadian squads sit in the "trenches"?

Yeah my Krieg Infantry didn’t do much besides provide a buffer in my game other than the grenadiers nuking a fire raptor. I was playing the relic though.

 

I’m going to try out melee Krieg with each of the watchmasters having a power sword. Perhaps being more aggressive with them will yield results.