Deathstrike

[Beams]

Hey, wondering what the opinions on the deathstrike is. Got one in the tail end of 7th, used it once there and once in a small game if 8th, and was hoping to start bringing it out.

[Feral_80]

It is unplayable.

Keep it for that odd, crazy, funny apocalypse match once per year. Potentially hilarious.

[Colonel Cross]

I have the notion to bring 3 to an apocalypse game. But that would just be for fun. They're bonkers bad.

[Beams]

That's a shame, I've always had a soft spot for it. Has anyone sent anything to GW saying how bad it is? Maybe we can get it's points lowered or something.

[crimsondave]

They were better in 7th.  Let that sink in.

[Feral_80]

Their problem is not the point cost. Even at 50 pts, they'd probably be 50 pts wasted.

 

It's that they just won't fire, not when they could be of any use anyway.

[mertbl]

It really needs a better launch mechanic. It's damage potential can be devastating, but it is unlikely to fire.

[ImperialSquishiness]

It should be auto hits once it fires rather than rolling to launch then rolling to hit.

[spafe]

Am I right in thinking turn 1 you pop smokes when using it, then turn 2 onwards you just hide in cover firing your heavy bolter, pintle heavy stubber and (turn 2 only) hunter killer and pray it goes off turn 2 or 3? I suppose using a command point to reroll the launch roll on turn 3 would be worth it?

 

I'd love to add one to my genestealer cult in the future... trying to work out how to get some use out of it at least.

[Feral_80]

It still sucks.

 

The only viable way to use it is to outflank is as Tallarn on turn 3, so it cannot be touched before and hopefully it will fire when it arrives.

 

The problem is, it still sucks even when used this way: it will cost 3 CP for the Tallarn stratagem, likely 1 CP for a firing mechanism reroll (and still it's not guaranteed), and 3 more CPs for the mandatory Deathstrike stratagem. 7 CP to put some mortal wounds is no good.

 

That's sad because it is really a nice centrepiece, but it's really unplayable. You might consider it for apocalypse silliness only, especially if you can park it behind an impassable, huge l-o-s blocking terrain in a corner, and just wait until it can fire (ie too late to affect the game anyway). 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Feral_80

[Captain Idaho]

Just out of interest, what makes it unplayable? I'm no Guard player.

 

Can't it hide out of line of sight and just nuke an enemy army?

[Feral_80]

Hum, how often have you seen that happen?

 

I believe that by 'just nuke an entire army' you meant 'if ever it survives *undamaged* until turn 3 or (more realistically) turn 4, it can just put some mortal wounds on a single unit and a few mw on some other units within 6", including your own units that happen to be there, provided you spend at least 4 CPs on it'.

 

Considering that by turn 3-4 most games are already over or decided anyway, that not many big bunches of units tend to reach that point of the game, that most will be scattered around for board control, and that -1 to hit everywhere further reduces its accuracy, you can easily see why a Deathstrike is an extremely unreliable and poor way to spend over 160 points, even if you deploy it out of sight.

[Are Verlo]

Just out of interest, what makes it unplayable? I'm no Guard player.

 

Can't it hide out of line of sight and just nuke an enemy army?

Well to fire the weapon you roll a D6 and add the current turn number. I think the result has to be 8 to fire (it might be 7 or 9). So it will never fire turn 1 or 2, most often after turn 3, and by then the battle is mostly done.

[Beams]

They were better in 7th. Let that sink in.

In 7th, one of our players usually did guard in camo cloaks behind an aegis backed by Basilisks. We we're usually on a team. The one time I bring my deathstrike, he pulled the other team out of a hat. I fired turn 3, rolled low on my scatter and destroyed most of his infantry in a single blow. Sadly, it doesn't look like that's possible anymore, except maybe against a castling T'au player, but still, I was hoping for a more positive response. The idea of a Frontline nuke is to cool to pass up.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Beams

[Frater Cornelius]

The main reason to bring one:

 

 

No need to be competitive when you can be the most badass player on the block ;)

[Akrim]

The rule to fire became so dumb in the new dex (unlikely to fire until turn 4) and they made the missile completely wimpy - avg 9 shots = 4-5 hits/mortal wounds. Typically you're not shooting big formations by that point in the game so the collateral damage is a non factor.

 

I used to love them in 7th, nuking big swathes of the battlefield. My favorite was a buddy playing DE  (I even reminded him what the missile did), went for a "hugging the belt" tactic with his Raider/Venom borne squads thinking I wouldn't shoot so close to my infantry squads. He was wrong I think about 30+ Wyches/Warriors and several skimmers died in the blast. 

[spafe]

isnt the average for 3 d6 11? not that it helps much but its not 'that' bad... 

 

And yeah, I love that meme! makes me want to use them sooo much!

[NatBrannigan]

Makes ok terrain if you paint it differently to the rest of the army I suppose?  A fun objective? Give each army a flatbed truck and try and recover the missile?

 

Mine never fired, not once, then went on ebay with the rest of the models I didn't want to use any more. And then it got worse in 8th edition. A shame but to be honest I thought it was always a bit silly that such a unit would ever be deployed on the front lines! Same for Basilisks and Manticores I suppose though...

[ImperialSquishiness]

isnt the average for 3 d6 11? not that it helps much but its not 'that' bad...

 

And yeah, I love that meme! makes me want to use them sooo much!

Average is 11, but you then have to roll to hit, averaging 5/6

[Beams]

Makes ok terrain if you paint it differently to the rest of the army I suppose? A fun objective? Give each army a flatbed truck and try and recover the missile?

 

Mine never fired, not once, then went on ebay with the rest of the models I didn't want to use any more. And then it got worse in 8th edition. A shame but to be honest I thought it was always a bit silly that such a unit would ever be deployed on the front lines! Same for Basilisks and Manticores I suppose though...

The deathstrike should be like old school orbital bombardments, you buy it and it fills a slot but there's no model. That said, I kind of like the idea that's it on the table. A goofy intimidation factor for your opponent, or at least it's supposed to be.

[Frater Cornelius]

Deathstrike should be a mission objective. After 5 turns, it fires. Alternatively, use the same random roll mechanic, but that would make it ill suited as a mission. Anyway, if the Deathstrike fires, you win. If it is destroyed, you lose. There would be certain balance issues, all of which could be addressed though. Heck, it might be a very cool homegrown mission.

[NatBrannigan]

By the Emperor imagine the rage as all tournament Guard armies become 9 Deathstrikes surrounded by anything that can make them survive longer!

 

Be worth it just to see the sheer amount of tears, although sea level rise is already a concern...

[duz_]

I took a deathstrike to a tournament in 7th.

The look on my opponents face each round was worth bringing it alone.

Damagewise I dont think it actually nuked that much. The threat alone was enough to freak them out and over commit to killing it though. :lol:

[patchestheclown]

I'm going to get one only because of the cool factor! It can serve as a descent distraction carnifex because no one wants to see it fire so any anti-tank that gets devoted toward your deathstrike is less fire that's directed at your real threats (russes or artillery).

 

IMO the thing that really holds back the deathstrike is the 4+ BS and the fact that it can degrade. 3d6 average is 10.5 lets just assume you get 12 for easy math. Completely unharmed your looking at 6 mortal wounds on a unit, so 3 primaris marines. If it does take damage enough to degrade it that number of mortal wounds gets much smaller. For 160+ points being able to kill 1/2 a primaris squad (on average) is a pretty bad investment. Sure there is splash damage but thats a 50/50 roll and then only d3 mortal wounds.

 

My fix (which I'm not saying is good) would be to make them autohits rather than 4+ BS, it would make it capable of removing anything but a LOW from the game in one shot. Still wouldn't be the greatest thing in the game but would actually act like an ICBM :)   (it would also make catachans love it that much more!!!)

[Beams]

Let's be honest: how do you miss with a nuke?

 

It should be on a 3+ nearby units get this, and the strategem should up that to 2+, and it should be auto hit. In 7th, it was hard to completely whiff on your target.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Beams