GK and Tournaments

[Corvus Fortis]

I checked the lists from last team torunament held in Moscow and half of the teams featured a Grey Knight player. List were pretty similar. This units were in every list:

 

Draigo

GMNDK

3xStrikes (different number of models from list to list)

Brother-Captain

BroAncient with Refining Flame

Shooty VenDread with Astral Aim

 

Common things also were:

 

1-3 Interceptor Squads

1-2 Razorbacks with different turrets

 

I sighted Voldus, Apothecary and Storm Raven only once. One list also featured Land Raider and one even a Terminator Squad. I don't recall Paladins at all. Also - only one Purgation squad with 4 Psilencers. Also sighted Crowe once. Interestingly, no lists with more than 1 GMNDK.

 

Because it is a team tournament, there was not much allies, but almost every list featured Inquisitor or Greyfax with 3 acolytes. One had BA with Mephiston, Tycho and Lt. on Jump Pack. One also had 60 fenrisian wolves. 

 

All this makes me think, that we underestimate BroCap/Refining flame combo. I tried it only once on the first game with new codex. I will deinitely give it a try. 

 

What do you think about it? How would you build a tournament list for GK? Let's say, 2000 points and max 500 points of allies?

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

I checked the lists from last team torunament held in Moscow and half of the teams featured a Grey Knight player. List were pretty similar. This units were in every list:

 

Draigo

GMNDK

3xStrikes (different number of models from list to list)

Brother-Captain

BroAncient with Refining Flame

Shooty VenDread with Astral Aim

 

Common things also were:

 

1-3 Interceptor Squads

1-2 Razorbacks with different turrets

 

I sighted Voldus, Apothecary and Storm Raven only once. One list also featured Land Raider and one even a Terminator Squad. I don't recall Paladins at all. Also - only one Purgation squad with 4 Psilencers. Also sighted Crowe once. Interestingly, no lists with more than 1 GMNDK.

 

Because it is a team tournament, there was not much allies, but almost every list featured Inquisitor or Greyfax with 3 acolytes. One had BA with Mephiston, Tycho and Lt. on Jump Pack. One also had 60 fenrisian wolves.

 

All this makes me think, that we underestimate BroCap/Refining flame combo. I tried it only once on the first game with new codex. I will deinitely give it a try.

 

What do you think about it? How would you build a tournament list for GK? Let's say, 2000 points and max 500 points of allies?

Weirdly, my last list in foresight of a tournament is:

 

BATTALION

- GMNDK

- Draigo

- 3x5 PAGK

- Bro Ancient w/ Refining

- 3x Razorback w/ las

 

OUTRIDER

- BroCap

- 3x5 Interceptors

 

VANGUARD

- Greyfax

- 3x1 Acolyte

 

And I didn't follow that Russian tourney at all :D

[Meatcaber]

Considering everything we discussed in my GKVD thread, I would most likely field something like the following:

 

 

Grey Knights Vanguard Detachment - 718

 

HQ

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight; 285

Gatling Psilencer; Heavy Psycannon; Nemesis Greatsword; Teleporter

Warlord Trait; First to the Fray

Psychic Powers; Sanctuary; Smite

 

ELITE

 

3 Paladins; 3x Stormbolter; 3x Halberds; 165

Psychic Powers; Hammerhand; Smite

 

3 Paladins; 3x Stormbolter; 3x Halberds; 165

Psychic Powers; Hammerhand; Smite

 

Apothecary; Nemesis Daemon Hammer; Cuirass of Sacrifice; 103

Psychic Powers; Gate of Infinity; Smite

 

Grey Knights Battalion Detachment - 780

 

HQ

 

Grand Master Voldus; Malleus Argyrum; Stormbolter; 190

Psychic Powers; Purge Soul; Vortex of Doom; Sanctuary; Smite

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight; 275

Gatling Psilencer; Heavy Psycannon; Nemesis Greatsword

Psychic Powers; Gate of Infinity; Smite

 

TROOPS

 

Strike Squad; 5x Stormbolter; 5x Double Falchions; 105

Psychic Powers; Hammerhand; Smite

 

Strike Squad; 5x Stormbolter; 5x Double Falchions; 105

Psychic Powers; Hammerhand; Smite

 

Strike Squad; 5x Stormbolter; 5x Double Falchions; 105

Psychic Powers; Hammerhand; Smite

 

 

Now, I don't play in a particularly competitive environment nor have I attended any tournaments so take anything I have to say with a massive bag of salt. This list comes to 1498 points - I personally prefer playing 1500 though my games club group tend to wanna play 2000 points. For the next 502 points we could add

 

For pure GK, 2 or 3 RB's and a Dread with TLLC/ML plus Astral Aim. Probably give the RB TLLC as we'll so we get some long range AT which I feel the list above is sorely lacking.

 

Considering I'll have AdMech for allies, I think 3 Onager Dunecrawlers and an Enginseer would also add the AT component, however, there isn't much to bubble-wrap/shield them with. A battalion would also be nice for boots on the ground and extra CP, but 500 points doesn't give much for 'good' stuff after the obligatory 2 HQ's and 3 minimum sized squads. But you can squeeze in 2 Onagers, 3x5 Rangers and 2 Enginseers for less than 500 points - each Onager gets it's own seer for repairs while the rangers provide some shooting and can create a null zone to prevent deepstrikers, they die pretty easy though. That's 7 drops right there which will allow more GK to DS. 

 

Quite like that AM + GK idea now! 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Meatcaber

[Corvus Fortis]

In upcoming local tournament in late spring I want to field something like this:

 

2x GMNDK

Draigo

3x Strikes

Apothecary

VenDread

Stormraven

2x LasRazorbacks

 

My pain so far is heavy vehicles, so I hope shooty VenDread and a couple of Razors will do the job. Dread can also use Wisdom of Ancients if I really want something dead (I tend to use that single CP for some 4+ reroll that fails anyway), so characters are free on the front. I also do not have any Interceptor models right now, but I've heard on another forum, that there is no need to have both Interceptors and Strikes.  I think, that point of single GMNDK is that it is easily protected by Sanctuary+Heed combo (I believe GW will get rid of 2++ in the game in future, but till then we are free to enjoy it). I never felt the true difference between 3++ and 2++ until I tried it. Still, 2 GMNDKs are 24 wounds (almost a Knight!) with 4++ which can be upgraded up to 3++ for both of them. Since I've got two of them, there was only one game when I lost both. Usually one dies by the turn 3-4, but another one still has 8-10 wounds left. 

 

Quite like that AM + GK idea now! 

 

 

I think, they are good allies. Their strength comes from the fact they cover each other weaknesses. GK shines in Psychic phase and can provide formidable close combat support, while AdMech gives long range shooting, while skitarii can sit on objectives. I think about getting a couple of Start Collecting boxes to add Onagers and Rangers to my GK force.

[draigostar]

Where did you see the lists from ? @Corvus Fortis

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Venerable Dreadnoughts are one of the better options, as they can get 'Astral Aim' on krak missiles and lascannon shots. Also hitting on a 2+ while stationary is very nice, especially when you deploy them within 6" of eachother and pop 'Wisdom' strat. Besides Stormraven that's what I'd take for anti-tank.

 

Regarding Mechanicum, I'd take a Spearhead with a big Kastellan unit and a Datasmith with Mars Doctrine. Park the Dominus nearby, then use their 6's to wound = mortal wounds strat when they double fire on Turn 2. I wouldn't take Onagers, Venerables already do their job. But in terms of mid-strength massed firepower, Kastellans can clear chaff and even heavy infantry away with sheer dakka output that GK lack.

[Corvus Fortis]

The lists are from another forum.

 

 

Venerable Dreadnoughts are one of the better options, as they can get 'Astral Aim' on krak missiles and lascannon shots. Also hitting on a 2+ while stationary is very nice, especially when you deploy them within 6" of eachother and pop 'Wisdom' strat. Besides Stormraven that's what I'd take for anti-tank.

 

Regarding Mechanicum, I'd take a Spearhead with a big Kastellan unit and a Datasmith with Mars Doctrine. Park the Dominus nearby, then use their 6's to wound = mortal wounds strat when they double fire on Turn 2. I wouldn't take Onagers, Venerables already do their job. But in terms of mid-strength massed firepower, Kastellans can clear chaff and even heavy infantry away with sheer dakka output that GK lack.

 

I like Neutron Onagers because of AP-4. Random 6+ saves spoiled me so many games. Kastellans should be taken in units of at least 4. But one box of Kastellans is almost the same price as Start Collecting. And since you want all Kastellans in a single unit, you'll have to take patrol instead of spearhead.

[draigostar]

Can you link the forums so we can see the lists?

[Meatcaber]

The lists are from another forum.

 

 

Venerable Dreadnoughts are one of the better options, as they can get 'Astral Aim' on krak missiles and lascannon shots. Also hitting on a 2+ while stationary is very nice, especially when you deploy them within 6" of eachother and pop 'Wisdom' strat. Besides Stormraven that's what I'd take for anti-tank.

 

Regarding Mechanicum, I'd take a Spearhead with a big Kastellan unit and a Datasmith with Mars Doctrine. Park the Dominus nearby, then use their 6's to wound = mortal wounds strat when they double fire on Turn 2. I wouldn't take Onagers, Venerables already do their job. But in terms of mid-strength massed firepower, Kastellans can clear chaff and even heavy infantry away with sheer dakka output that GK lack.

 

I like Neutron Onagers because of AP-4. Random 6+ saves spoiled me so many games. Kastellans should be taken in units of at least 4. But one box of Kastellans is almost the same price as Start Collecting. And since you want all Kastellans in a single unit, you'll have to take patrol instead of spearhead.

 

AdMech also have a Stratagem that allows Onagers to hit Flyers on BS 2+ and with a Dominus nearby they can re-rolls 1's. I really struggled with Flyers and this was my answer, I always take them as a pair. With  Neutron laser that's d3 S10 -4AP shots with a minimum of 3 damage each. 

 

Downside is, if you can see them they can see you, but I play Stygies so the enemy gets -1 to hit from over 12 inches away, which compensates a little. Not quite as good as hiding something completely and still getting to shoot.

[Corvus Fortis]

Here they are.

 

You have to find GK lists manually in every file.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I like Neutron Onagers because of AP-4. Random 6+ saves spoiled me so many games. Kastellans should be taken in units of at least 4. But one box of Kastellans is almost the same price as Start Collecting. And since you want all Kastellans in a single unit, you'll have to take patrol instead of spearhead.

 

Ah true, I forgot its 3 minimum Heavy choices. So yeah, just take Patrol then.

 

I think shooting through walls is nice though. Hitting on 2's, so they're gonna average more damage than the Neutron Onagers. Still hit Flyers and '-1 to hit' targets on 3's, and no need for Command Points. They're still a tad overpriced mind you, but I like Venerables. I'd rather bring more Kastellans for the Mech component of the list, as they're supplying the massed S6 the GK army list lacks.

 

>implying you'd buy from GW directly

Third party my friend. In my case I'll probably just proxy my Castellax from 30k, cos the Kastellan model is so bad.

[Capt. Mytre]

>implying you'd buy from GW directly

Third party my friend. In my case I'll probably just proxy my Castellax from 30k, cos the Kastellan model is so bad.

 

 

Off topic, but it's amazing how bad it is. Not only is it just a generally bad design, but it doesn't even fit 40k, let alone admech. Would fit perfectly in a fallout game, but 40k admech, not at all lol.

[Beams]

 

 

 

>implying you'd buy from GW directly

Third party my friend. In my case I'll probably just proxy my Castellax from 30k, cos the Kastellan model is so bad.

 

Off topic, but it's amazing how bad it is. Not only is it just a generally bad design, but it doesn't even fit 40k, let alone admech. Would fit perfectly in a fallout game, but 40k admech, not at all lol.

When they came out, I almost dropped an entire paycheck into those robots because I liked them so much, only to see the rest of the army and to be horribly disappointed. I love the 1950's death bots.

[Corvus Fortis]

Day before yesterday I went to another tournament - 1500 pts, no forge, no low, no more than 3 same units. Don't want to create new topic, because the report will be short and boring.

 

My list

 

2xGMNDK, Incinerator and sword on one, Hammer and Psilencer on another, both Psycannons

Voldus

3 strike squad, 2x5 man and one 6-man with hammer on Justicar, Psilencer in each unit

Stormraven, all anti-vehicle, hurricanes

 

Game 1, Eldar

 

Farseer, 2 warlocks

3x5 rangers

2xHemlocs

2xSerpents

10 and 5 reapers

 

That was a win, but I litterally decided to lose. My strikes were sitting on objectives for the whole game while GMNDKs, Raven and Voldus did the job. My turn was first, I killed one hemlock. On turn 2 my raven left with 2 wounds by reapers and GMNDK lost half of wounds. I made a great mistake and GMNDK standing near a Serpent got in range of vortex (I was sure it had been far enough). After that the same GMNDK perilled and left with 1 wound. Lost it charging the Serpent (single 2+ save and I failed it). After my turn 3 time was up, but my opponent told the referee that I played too slow (what?) and ask to play in the brake. Referee told me to decide (what??) and I decided to do it gentlemanly. But got it too far. Instead of agreeing on finishing turn 3 I agreed to finish turn 5(what???). As a result, we played for the whole 40 mins break and I was eventually wiped out by reapers+hemlock plain broken shooting.  By turn 3 I was controlling my objective and eldar player didn't so I even could hope for a win or at least draw. 

 

Conclusion: 1. manners are manners but tournament is tournament. Not a friendly game or campaign. Everything has to be in meaure. 2. Eldar are plain broken, period.

 

Game 2, Dark Angels

 

Samael

Ancient

Lieutenant

3x5 scouts (one squad with rifles)

2x8 Bikes with bolters and chainswords (one attack bike, one twin-melta and one powersword)

Twinlas Razor

Celestine

Battle Sisters with bolters

 

I was very tired after game 1 and had not break at all so didn't try very hard. Turn 1 was mine. I killed Razorback, got GMNDK with 2++ and suicided voldus (opened for attacks), wanting to cast vortex on bike horde (they were very close to each other). Vortex was denied by SoB stratagem. GMNDK successfully charged one bike squad, but I've got 2 2s to hit and 2 1s to-wound. Fine. He striked back and by sheer amount of attacks with chainswords downed GMNDK to 6 wounds. Celestine charged and killed Voldus. He made a mistake and opened Samael for my shooting. Second GMNDK came out of reserves and with SR killed both Samael and Ancient. Another GMNDK was finished off. One twin melta brought SR down to 4 wounds. GMNDK finished both bike squads. Time was out, we both got objectives, but I was better with maelstrom and killpoints. My opponent was referee-proxibot, so he didn't really tried. His list was very friendly as well. Form the other hand, I didn't try a lot too, at least for first 2 turns. 17-3, I win.

 

Conclusion: nothing to say here. Felt much more like friendly game than a tournament one.

 

Game 3, Ultramarines

 

Bro-Cap on bike, Hammer, Shield eternal

Lieutenant

Scout Snipers

2x5 intercessors

5xHellblasters

5xDevastators (gravs)

2xLasrazors

3xLaspreds (one with chronos)

 

I thought 3++ was enough to withstand a turn of shooting from 12 Lascannons. I never was so wrong in my life. I placed an objective on top of high tower, planning to gate there, but Scouts infiltrated there instead (wah-wah-wah-wah). Opponent waited for me to come in range, so I did. I thought, I will stand his lascannons, my dice didn't think so. 3 wounds allocated, 1-1-2 on saves, 5-4-5 on damage. Good night, Mr. GMNDK. So I manaded to kill one Predator and bring chronos to 6 wounds. Dice were magic. Reroll 1 for 1, 2-2 to-wound for multimeltas, 7 out of 8 3+ saves for Devastators, 9 out of 10 3+ saves for devastators, 6+ save on chronus against missiles. Turn 5 wipe out.

 

Conclusion: 1. scouts can infiltrate. 2. don't go  close to opponent, while he's out of range. Let him move, let his spread (ok, I knew it, but didn't follow, so here's the result). 3-12. Don't leave unfinished vehicles near reroll sources. 13. Try to change dice. Again.

 

As a result, 15th place out of 20. I feel, I can do better, often was just lazy to think. Probably, first game was too exhausting for me. Looking for the next 2000 pts tournament, will publish my thoughts on list today.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah Eldar really are just broken. There is no other word for it. I actually think they're stronger than Guard, it's just Guard are more prevalent. A lot of people bailed on 7th Eldar (like Tau players) when the 8th edition indexes dropped. Now that their codex is back, I would predict a resurgence. Dark Reapers are broken as a vanilla unit, with strategems and Ynnari buffs they go completely overboard.

 

Yeah las-Preds and Hellblasters are very good choices for Marines. Killshot is extremely annoying. It's one of the problems for GK, we need to hit hard and early, or we just get shot off the table by other lists. I would always be popping 'Sanctuary' and 'Heed the Prognosticars' on your Warlord GMDK Turn 1, if you're facing that many heavy weapons. 

[Corvus Fortis]

Reapers have to go to d1 on Reaper launchers for all modes and all types of Flyers need cost increase. These are the first steps for fixind Eldar. Also, Alaitoc -1 to-hit bonus must not affect aviation. -3 to-hit on Hemlock is just stupid. 

 

I tend to use Heed on one GMNDK and Sanctuary on another to keep them in 3++ for a turn. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Reapers have to go to d1 on Reaper launchers for all modes and all types of Flyers need cost increase. These are the first steps for fixind Eldar. Also, Alaitoc -1 to-hit bonus must not affect aviation. -3 to-hit on Hemlock is just stupid. 

 

Yeah why are they D3 damage? Like they're literally as powerful as a psilencer, but have immense range, no hit modifier for moving (or anything in fact), and higher Strength. 

 

I wouldn't increase the cost, I'd simply make the Alaitoc trait only affect Infantry keyword.

I tend to use Heed on one GMNDK and Sanctuary on another to keep them in 3++ for a turn. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

 

Just accept one is going to die, protect your main man. 2+ invul should mean you shrug most of it off, barring Mortal Wounds.

[Corvus Fortis]

Yeah why are they D3 damage? Like they're literally as powerful as a psilencer, but have immense range, no hit modifier for moving (or anything in fact), and higher Strength. 

 

 

Oh, no, they have 3 damage FLAT. 

 

I think, the best way for CT-type rules is for AM - different effects on infantry and Vehicles. Aircraft benefit most form this trait because they already have -1 to-hit.

 

Just accept one is going to die, protect your main man. 2+ invul should mean you shrug most of it off, barring Mortal Wounds.

 

 

I think of another tactics - drop one GMNDK first and keep it for 2 turns with 2++, than add another one. I want to see, how this will work.

[Helycon]

While I realise it's possible to have a 3++ with Sanctuary and have heed add +1 to all dice rolls (effectively making 2's into 3's), I feel that having a pseudo 2++ should never be a thing. Magnus was terrible in his Index state due to the fact he essentially did the same, save for rerolling 1's in stead of 2's. It's just not fun to try and kill something with a ton of wounds that's almost impervious to damage and would not mind if this interaction was cut. And yes, I play Grey Knights and know they're not at their best. Edited February 20, 2018 by Helycon

[Capt. Mytre]

While I realise it's possible to have a 3++ with Sanctuary and have heed add +1 to all dice rolls (effectively making 2's into 3's), I feel that having a pseudo 2++ should never be a thing. Magnus was terrible in his Index state due to the fact he essentially did the same, save for rerolling 1's in stead of 2's. It's just not fun to try and kill something with a ton of wounds that's almost impervious to damage and would not mind if this interaction was cut. And yes, I play Grey Knights and know they're not at their best.

 

Things shouldn't be limited "just because", they should have good reason behind them. 2++ saves have a place, as do mortal wounds. They just need to be used properly. Magnus is far tankier and mobile than a Dreadknight, which is our toughest model. It's also limited to a single model per turn, and requires expensive stratagems.

[Waking Dreamer]

If a full GKs army actually wins or even places in the top 8 of a tourney with the use of 1 GMDK with a 2++ for 1 turn, then maybe I'd consider it as possibly meta-breaking...otherwise paying premium for one single 2++ in a GKs army is something I'd consider hard earned.

 

As stated through personal experience in this thread already, paying for 3++ against tourney-level armies/players isn't always enough, and they will break and melt through it as just another day...

Edited February 21, 2018 by Waking Dreamer

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

 

 

While I realise it's possible to have a 3++ with Sanctuary and have heed add +1 to all dice rolls (effectively making 2's into 3's), I feel that having a pseudo 2++ should never be a thing. Magnus was terrible in his Index state due to the fact he essentially did the same, save for rerolling 1's in stead of 2's. It's just not fun to try and kill something with a ton of wounds that's almost impervious to damage and would not mind if this interaction was cut. And yes, I play Grey Knights and know they're not at their best.

Things shouldn't be limited "just because", they should have good reason behind them. 2++ saves have a place, as do mortal wounds. They just need to be used properly. Magnus is far tankier and mobile than a Dreadknight, which is our toughest model. It's also limited to a single model per turn, and requires expensive stratagems.

Or 2 per turn (1 per phase) if you run Draigo too and have a ridiculous amount of CPs :P

 

This reminds me about an Italian tourney player who was once ruled against about Sanctuary + strat on NDKGM by the referee (no clue about why that referee ruled this way), and from that point on started to state on the Italian 40k forum that: (i) it's weird that our monster can reach the 2+/2++ since no other monster in the game can, (ii) it's ridiculous that GKs have such a combo, (iii) he had asked on the 40k FB page and the admins - acquaintances of him according to his words! - said NOPE, therefore their interpretation should have been an official errata/FAQ to be applied everywhere :D Good old ragewhining :D

[Corvus Fortis]

In October, in our beginner local tournament GK player too 1st place with GMNDK, 2x3 paladins and a stormraven (1000 pts). There were a lot of restrictions, however. The same player tool 5th place in 1250 pts tournament (FW stuff banned), but he had Celestine and some IG troops. The main part of the list were 3xGMNDK.  Still don't think 2++ on GMNDK is broken, because it will be for 3 turns at best and only on 1 unit. Your opponent will simply shoot other targets instead. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Oh, no, they have 3 damage FLAT. 

 

I think, the best way for CT-type rules is for AM - different effects on infantry and Vehicles. Aircraft benefit most form this trait because they already have -1 to-hit.

 

Throne, that's horrific. They're basically a ranged nemesis hammer :( how did this get past 'playtesting'? Oh right, because echo chamber.

 

Yeah agreed, I like how the Guard handled that difference.

I think of another tactics - drop one GMNDK first and keep it for 2 turns with 2++, than add another one. I want to see, how this will work.

 

Nah you wanna drop both. There is basically no point holding back units in 8th, you're ceding the momentum to your opponent. Remember that even without buffs, a GMDK is a challenge to drop in one shooting phase. Barring dumb stuff like Eldar infinite range Interceptor strat (you can avoid Auspex strat by just landing 13" away), you will at least get a turn of shooting out of your GMDK, potentially two if you use 'Only In Death' when he dies to squeeze out some final damage.

While I realise it's possible to have a 3++ with Sanctuary and have heed add +1 to all dice rolls (effectively making 2's into 3's), I feel that having a pseudo 2++ should never be a thing. Magnus was terrible in his Index state due to the fact he essentially did the same, save for rerolling 1's in stead of 2's. It's just not fun to try and kill something with a ton of wounds that's almost impervious to damage and would not mind if this interaction was cut. And yes, I play Grey Knights and know they're not at their best. 

 

See I would agree, but Mortal Wound spamming is very much a thing in 8th, and it completely bypasses all your saves and Toughness (not to mention it doesn't need a to-hit roll either). Also even with a 2+ invul, you'll still fail 1 in 6 saves on average.

This reminds me about an Italian tourney player who was once ruled against about Sanctuary + strat on NDKGM by the referee (no clue about why that referee ruled this way), and from that point on started to state on the Italian 40k forum that: (i) it's weird that our monster can reach the 2+/2++ since no other monster in the game can, (ii) it's ridiculous that GKs have such a combo, (iii) he had asked on the 40k FB page and the admins - acquaintances of him according to his words! - said NOPE, therefore their interpretation should have been an official errata/FAQ to be applied everywhere Good old ragewhining  

 

Wow. Okay so using that logic, at my next tournament I demand Dark Reapers have their missile damage reduced to 1, and they suffer negative to-hit modifiers :P what a joke man. This is why its not wise to only canvass tournament organiser opinions (ie GW current policy regarding codex releases and FAQ changes).

In October, in our beginner local tournament GK player too 1st place with GMNDK, 2x3 paladins and a stormraven (1000 pts). There were a lot of restrictions, however. The same player tool 5th place in 1250 pts tournament (FW stuff banned), but he had Celestine and some IG troops. The main part of the list were 3xGMNDK.  Still don't think 2++ on GMNDK is broken, because it will be for 3 turns at best and only on 1 unit. Your opponent will simply shoot other targets instead. 

 

Yeah this is an important point. I've done the combo myself, and basically it just means that GMDK gets ignored for a turn, while they pile all the damage into the other one. Which is not good, but means stuff like my Dreads get ignored. I do it to keep my Warlord alive.

[Gentlemanloser]

How did the Reapers get past testing?

 

I think the 'playtesters' mained Eldar. :P

 

Or rather, the most expansive playtesting for the most balanced edition, wasn't. ;)