Stormravens - Are they still worth it?

[Captain Idaho]

Broken record time...

 

Intervening line of sight terrain. You might be targetable by some of the enemy army but not all.

 

Well ignoring Eldar nonesense of course. 1 Dark Reapers unit is game over for most things.

[Ishagu]

Until the March FAQs (hopefully) the only way to beat a mean Eldar list is with a mean Eldar list :-P

[StrummersGhost]

The majority of games I play are at 1500 and I find 1 stormraven performs pretty well, most of the time. My take on 1500 point games are that they become more tactical in terms of list building as you have to make some tough choices and sacrifices. Losing a stormraven early in a 1.5k game is heartbreaking but it's worth the gamble I think. It probably helps that my meta consists of a group of my friends, none of whom play Eldar. So no Dark Reapers to worry about haha.

[Toxichobbit]

Until the March FAQs (hopefully) the only way to beat a mean Eldar list is with a mean Eldar list :-P

 

March can't come quick enough. I hope they take notice of Tyranids too and adjust them a bit.

[Firepower]

Lower the LRC price pleeeeaaaaase! 

 

Alright, got that outta my system.  Back to the matter at hand. :D

[SydonianDragoon404]

Alot more than the LRC needs to be lowered in cost.

[SyNidus]

Would a single Ironclad Dreadnought transported in a stormraven be enough of a threat to make it worthwhile?

[Firepower]

Well, transport almost anything else along with it (maybe a Lieutenant to buff the Dread on the ground) and you have so many eggs in one basket that it becomes a liability rather than a threat.  Sorta undercuts the whole thing, doesn't it?  There's a sweet spot to be found between gunship and transport...

[Ishagu]

When I run my Raven I literally carry two 6 man squads of Tactical Marines.

[Captain Idaho]

If the Storm Raven gets just 1 turn of movement then a Dreadnought and killy unit aboard is worthwhile.

 

So most games yes.

 

Against Eldar then no :p

 

Seriously though, take a Storm Raven along with say a Predator squadron, or a Land Raider, or several Contemptors running up the board. Saturation.

[Race Bannon]

Is the original question for the tournament setting?

[Toxichobbit]

When I run my Raven I literally carry two 6 man squads of Tactical Marines.

 

I'm thinking of trying mine out like this. At the moment I'm playing* 25 power games while I introduce a group to the hobby. What weapon loadout do you go for, double plasma + combi-plasma? Also, how do you think two 6 man Tactical Squads compares to one 10 man Tactical Squad plus support (say, a cheap Lieutenant) when taking into account Scions of Guilliman?

 

* actually mostly GMing the games, giving pointers on tactics and explainign rules. It's surprisingly good fun.

[Ishagu]

I run them as two squads as it's simply better for grabbing multiple objectives and 6 bodies per unit are more survivable than 5.Typically both with Plasmas, sometimes one Squad might have a melta and combi melta

 

Of course, with Strats in mind a single squad could be better. A lieutenant does add a lot of points into the Raven's cargo. Potentially it's another case of too many eggs in one basket but he's by no means a large expense. The thing is, the Tacs aren't super offensive - you could say a Lieutenant is better off giving your Predators/Centurions/Termies etc. those re rolls instead.

[Toxichobbit]

I think I'll just have to experiment. I'll definitely go plasma/plasma on at least one squad. Melta hasn't been good to me so far, but I'm not a huge fan of doubling up on load outs. Makes the game a bit less tactical when everything is armed the same, even if it is more effective. To start with, I think I'll try double plasma then a cheap heavy weapon, probably a heavy bolter.

 

Good point about the Lieutenant. It is edging up the points again and would probably need a second Lieutenant to hold the back line. I could always try dropping in a Lieutenant with jump pack though. Bit more expensive but he's not increasing the Storm Raven's threat and has the versatility to drop elsewhere if I need him.

 

Decisions!

Edited February 23, 2018 by Toxichobbit

[9x19 Parabellum]

Toxic:

 

Have you considered deploying <whatever it is you want transport in the Stormraven> outside of it? (but within embarkation distance).

 

If you get turn 1, great. Move your guys, load up, and surge the Stormraven forward.

If you get turn 2, your guys are not loaded into it, and at least the opponent has some guesswork as to what might be going into (if anything), and if he shoots it down (the Stormaven), at least your guys don't all have to roll for slain models.

 

Another thing you can do (at least, I think this is legal, I don't have the rulebook with me.)  Deploy your <10 infantry> guys inside a Rhino.  On turn 1, disembark them from the rhino, then move and advance with them to end their move next to the Stormraven gunship.  How risky you want to get with this is up to you, but with the 3" disembark from the Rhino + 6" move + 3" advance (conservative) + 3" next to Stormraven to embark means that the Rhino can be a full 15" away from the Stormraven, increasing the odds that you'll be able to successfully fool your opponent.  Granted, you can't do this with Jump Units or Termies or Centurions or Dreadnoughts because none of them can deploy in the rhino but you can just deploy those guys outside the Stormraven and then move them up to embark upon it on your turn. 

 

I also noticed you mentioned Scions of Guilliman, so I assume you are playing Ultramarines? Have you considered using Tigurius' Master of Prescience ability on the Stormraven?  You declare it in opponent's shooting phase, so you don't even need first turn for this to work.  With the Stormraven's native -1, that's a pretty big boost to defense that it has.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Oh I had 2 other thoughts to share that I wanted to add (but clicked "send" before I remembered to put them in).

 

1. I find that a Stormraven can generally hold up at around 1200 - 1500 pts.  It's not so big that it chews up your entire list, and it's a small enough game that your opponent might not have enough big guns to take it down in 1 turn.

 

2. A Relic Deredeo Dreadnought.  I just purchased one from FW yesterday, should be here in a couple weeks. One of the equipment options is an Atomantic Pavaise, which provides a 5++ for all units within 6".  I want one to help protect against 1st turn alpha shooting builds.  Combine a 5++ with -2 to be hit (supersonic + tigurius) and your Stormraven SHOULD live through most 1st turns.

 

EDIT: also wanted to add that I realize this does exactly jack and against Dark Reapers since they ignore penalties to hit and a 5+ is the same as a 5++.  But as others have said, that's a problem with Dark Reapers being bonkers broken.  That being said, I think Toxichobbit said that he was facing off against Tyranids and Death Guard, 2nd edit, never mind, he did say Reapers, so yeah.

Edited March 13, 2018 by 9x19 Parabellum

[9x19 Parabellum]

Ok so a couple more questions:

 

1. Everyone keeps referring to the "TC".  What's the TC?

 

2. The basic question that the OP asks is "are they worth it?"  Is it a fair answer to say "for the most part, yes, but some broken units will ruin your day?"  Dark Reapers are not a problem specifically for Stormravens. They are a problem for EVERYTHING. That's why they are considered to be broken.  Are storm ravens worth it in a meta where broken things are popular? (Or LRC or anything else big and nasty?)  And I'm ok with it if your personal answer to that is "no", but at that point it needs to be "No" to almost everything else as well.  (ie, nothing is worth it against Dark Reapers)

Edited March 13, 2018 by 9x19 Parabellum