Some questions after a long hiatus

[Demoulius]

Hail brothers!

 

Ive been looking to get back into 40k and the last game I had was at the start of 7th. Needless to say something have changed... Im confused about a few things and il love some help with it as I cant seem to find the anwser myself....

 

1: I recently got my blood angel codex. Drop pods cant transport deadnoughts anymore?

2: How does fighting work? I seem to recall reading that they can use all the weapons that your models have, even firing at different targets if you want. But ive heard locally that youre supposed to split your attacks in melee between the weapons that you got, but I cant find a rule that confirms this? Or am I just reading over it?

3: command points. Im joining a tourney soon (to get back into a hobby in a spectacular fashion )  and the rulepacks says 'you get the standard 3 CP's for your army'. But I cant for the life of me where this rule is stated. Do you always get 3 CP's? Ive only seen formations that give you CP's if you meet the minimal requirements....

4: Using rules from the index vs the rulebook. Ive heard this from alot of sources but cant find where its stated. To give 1 example, I want to take a sanguinary priest, but my codex doesent have options for him to take these. If the unit entry did have options in the index (which it does) I can use those so long as I pay for the point costs of the upgrades in my codex. Where is this ruling located? I cant find it and I dont want to make a tournament invalid unit so hence why im asking so intensely....

5: Transports. I cant for the life of me find how you get these now. They have point costs and everything but units no longer allow you to bring a transport along. Do you just buy them as seperate units now? Is a dedicated transport even still a thing?

6: Deepstriking. Im confused about the mechanic abit (maybe because I played previous editions for so long....) can you just shoot and assault with deepstriking units now? The rule doesent seem to forbid it.It just restricts where you setup.

7: How does charging and retreating work? Do you just move your unit to within 1 inch in the movement phase? How does retreating work? Do you literally just casually stroll out of combat? Because that seems....weird to me.  

8: Strategems. Exacly when do you determine how to use these? I noticed some are used before the battle (so army selection) while others seem to have specific triggers. But do you to go like 'aha, you activated my trap card. im using X CP's to do Y' when it is in response to an enemy? So in essence youd have to halt the game for it abit? Because im abit afraid it gets abused to pull people out of their game

9: Wound calculations. How do wounds transfer to other models (or you know, not travel to other models)? Ive noticed that some weapons (notably heavy ones) do D6 or some such variable damage numbers. Can these wounds transfer to other models or can you max kill 1 model with these? If so, when do you roll for saves? Before or after deciding how much wounds they cause. I guess im asking which order is valid: a: you roll to wound. If you succesfully wound you roll for the amount of wounds and then the one getting shot at rolls saves for that many wounds. OR b: You roll to wound. If you wound your opponent rolls his save. If he fails you then see how many wounds you cause.

 

I think these questions can be anwsered by (re)reading the rulebook abit more but ive tried like 3 times now. I cant find the anwsers to these

[wildweasel]

1. That is correct.

 

2. When a model fights, it makes as many attacks as it's A characteristic. It may allocate those attacks how it wishes among any melee weapons it has. If it doesn't have one on its datasheet, it's presumed to have a S:User AP:0 D:1 weapon. Note some weapons have specials rules that vary this, such as getting bonus attacks with that weapon when the model fights (it does not have to allocate attacks to the weapon to get these) or limiting you to only allocating one attack to the weapon.

 

3. These are in the rules for Battle-forged armies. Being Battle-forged (all of your units being taken as parts of Detachments) gives you 3 CP. Most Detachments give additional CP (e.g. the Battalion, the closest equivalent to the old Combined Arms FOC, gives 3 CP, while the Elites heavy Vanguard gives 1, so an amry where you included a Battalion and a Vanguard grants 3+3+1=7 CP).

 

4. See the last page of : https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf Basically, Index loadouts are still legal, you just use any updated points costs and rules as appropriate.

 

5. Dedicated Transport is now a Battlefield Role type just like Troops and Fast Attack and so forth. Most Detachments allow you to take one Dedicated Transport for each other unit of any other type you take. There is no specific requirement that anything needs to be transportable, it's just "Fill one non-Dedicated Transport slot, unlock a Dedictated Transport slot." A Spearhead Detachment of a Techmarine and three Predators can take up to 4 Dedicated Transports, for example.

 

6. You absolutely can. The key thing to keep in mind is you have to set up *more* than 9" away (barring some very rare abilities), which means at least 9.01". To successfully charge, you must roll high enough to get at least one model within 1" - this means deep strikers need too roll a 9 to successfully charge, not as as it often thought (since 9.01-8=1.01 and still outside 1").

 

7. Charging is done during the Charge phase. You cannot move to within 1" of enemy models during the Movement phase. Yes, a Fall Back move is just walking away - but that prevents the unit Falling Back from shooting or charging that phase. Further, the Falling Back unit must still observe all the rules of movement, so if you surrond it it can't get away - or even just wrap it enough that even one model can't move to a place where it is beyond 1" of the enemy will keep the units engaged. Pile-in and consolidate moves during combat do *not* need to be in straight lines, just ending closer to the nearest enemy model, which means models can arc around. Fight phase maneuvering is actually a really big deal.

 

8. Every Stratagem tells you when you can use it, and that does include breaking into your opponent's turn for some (e.g. at the end of their Movement phase, using a Stratagem that allows a unit to shoot at a unit that was just deep struck nearby). Practically, given most armies only have a handful of CP (generally 6-8), it doesn't happen that much and the ensuing action is usually resolved pretty quickly.

 

9. Wounds do not carry over, except for mortal wounds but they are their own mechanic. The sequence for resolving a single attack works like this:

• Roll to hit, if hits:
• Roll to wound, if wounds:
• Opponent assigns wound to a specific model (if there is a wounded one in the unit, it must be that one) and rolls its save, if save is failed:
• Model loses wounds equal to the weapon's D stat - if this stat is random you roll it now. This means saves are all-or-nothing against each successful wound roll. If this reduces the model to 0 wounds or less, it's killed, any excess damage is lost
• If the model has an ability that says "When this model loses a wound, roll a die and on an X+ it does not lose that wound", this is tested now, against each lost wound even if those were all lost from a single high D attack

Edited February 2, 2018 by wildweasel

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

 

1: I recently got my blood angel codex. Drop pods cant transport deadnoughts anymore?

2: How does fighting work? I seem to recall reading that they can use all the weapons that your models have, even firing at different targets if you want. But ive heard locally that youre supposed to split your attacks in melee between the weapons that you got, but I cant find a rule that confirms this? Or am I just reading over it?

3: command points. Im joining a tourney soon (to get back into a hobby in a spectacular fashion )  and the rulepacks says 'you get the standard 3 CP's for your army'. But I cant for the life of me where this rule is stated. Do you always get 3 CP's? Ive only seen formations that give you CP's if you meet the minimal requirements....

4: Using rules from the index vs the rulebook. Ive heard this from alot of sources but cant find where its stated. To give 1 example, I want to take a sanguinary priest, but my codex doesent have options for him to take these. If the unit entry did have options in the index (which it does) I can use those so long as I pay for the point costs of the upgrades in my codex. Where is this ruling located? I cant find it and I dont want to make a tournament invalid unit so hence why im asking so intensely....

5: Transports. I cant for the life of me find how you get these now. They have point costs and everything but units no longer allow you to bring a transport along. Do you just buy them as seperate units now? Is a dedicated transport even still a thing?

6: Deepstriking. Im confused about the mechanic abit (maybe because I played previous editions for so long....) can you just shoot and assault with deepstriking units now? The rule doesent seem to forbid it.It just restricts where you setup.

7: How does charging and retreating work? Do you just move your unit to within 1 inch in the movement phase? How does retreating work? Do you literally just casually stroll out of combat? Because that seems....weird to me. 

8: Strategems. Exacly when do you determine how to use these? I noticed some are used before the battle (so army selection) while others seem to have specific triggers. But do you to go like 'aha, you activated my trap card. im using X CP's to do Y' when it is in response to an enemy? So in essence youd have to halt the game for it abit? Because im abit afraid it gets abused to pull people out of their game

9: Wound calculations. How do wounds transfer to other models (or you know, not travel to other models)? Ive noticed that some weapons (notably heavy ones) do D6 or some such variable damage numbers. Can these wounds transfer to other models or can you max kill 1 model with these? If so, when do you roll for saves? Before or after deciding how much wounds they cause. I guess im asking which order is valid: a: you roll to wound. If you succesfully wound you roll for the amount of wounds and then the one getting shot at rolls saves for that many wounds. OR b: You roll to wound. If you wound your opponent rolls his save. If he fails you then see how many wounds you cause.

1: nobody can take dreads in drop pods. if you want to get a dread across the field, your going to need to take a storm raven.

2: When fighting, you can make your attacks with whichever weapons you want, up to the amount of attacks you have. So say you have a sergeant with a power fist and power sword. You can choose to make 2 attacks using the power fist, or you can choose to make 2 attacks with your power sword, or you can do 1 attack with each. You just have to declare all your attacks and which unit you are hitting with those attacks before you roll. Another thing to let you know about is that modifiers are applied AFTER the roll. So say you rolled a 3 to hit with your powerfist, but since the powerfist gives you a -1 to hit modifier, your attack misses because it dropped the result to a 2.

3: The most basic formation (1-2 hq, 1 troops minimum 1-3, patrol detachment) technically doesn't give you any bonus command points. But in the page for detachments (i cant remember which page)  states you ALWAYS start with 3 command points, and gain/lose them based on the kinds of detachments you bring. This might help explain it to you https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/05/new-warhammer-40000-battle-forged-armiesgw-homepage-post-4/

4: You can use the Index listing for units that dont have codex listings. But you still have to pay all the appropriate points/power for said loadout.

5: The detachment link I posted lists that you can take a dedicated transport for each unit slot in a detachment you take.

6: Yes, but remember that when you deploy your units via deepstrike, you MUST set them up MORE than 9" away from enemy units. You dont have to worry about scatter or mishaps. They can still shoot and assault, but count as having moved. Deep Striking things like terminators are safer than trying to transport them across the field. And keep in mind that when you declare a CHARGE at unit (and deal with overwatch) you only have to get an within 1" of an enemy model for the charge to be considered a success, and if successful, you can consolidate units up to 3". you then do the fight phase as normal. And then you get another consolidation, but in both consolidations you have to move CLOSER to the enemy unit they charged than when they started their move. But if you are tricky/smart about it, in the consolidation move you can consolidated into other enemy units (as long as you moved closer to the charged unit) and tie them up (and they can do it to you as well). But remember you can only throw your attacks against the unit you declared a charge against. If you consolidate into a second (or third, etc) unit, you cant put any of your attacks against them, but they DO get to throw attacks at your unit.

7: in the movement you have to stay more than 1" from an enemy unit at all times, and can only move within 1" when you complete a charge. and for retreating, yes you just move however far you want AS LONG AS ITS MORE THAN 1" FROM THE UNIT YOU WERE ENGAGED WITH. if an enemy unit completely surrounds the unit and there is no way for your unit to move, you cant retreat. And the new space your are moving into, your model's base HAS to be able to fit into without being within 1" of an enemy. So if you try moving a tank/infantry/etc into an alleyway and you CANT fit the model into there, you cant move there.

8: You can use them whenever the strategem states you can use them, as long as you have the CP for it and you didnt already use that strategem in your turn (you cant use the same strategem over and over again, you can only use the strategem once per phase). So if you used a CP to re-roll a shot in the shooting phase, you cant use your CP to re-roll a dice until you go into another phase. You can still use other strategems in the same phase but you cant use the same strategem in the same phase.

9: Wounds are dealt however you see fit, but if a model suffers a wound, other wounds HAVE to be dealt to that same model until it dies (so you cant spread wounds all over the squads anymore). So say you have a lascannon that shoots a tactical marine, and you fail your save, and the lascannon rolled a 4 for damage. Well then all 4 damage is dealt to a single model (so only 1 marine would die). But say you have 4 bolter shots that succesfully wound on a squad of intercessors. Well you roll your 3+ save, and if fail 3 saves, 1 wound is dealt first and since intercessors have 2 wounds, the second failed save MUST be allocated to that same intercessor. That intercessor now dies and the third wound is dealt to another intercessor. Any further wounds dealt to that unit of intercessors MUST first be allocated to the wounded intercessor before any more wounds can be dealt to the other intercessors in the squad.

[Claws and Effect]

On the dreads in pods: If you want a pod for a dreadnought you have to get a Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Pod from Forgeworld.

 

In casual games I'd imagine most people will be fine with proxying a regular pod if you pay the points for a Lucius.

 

Strategems: If you have a Strategem that occurs before the game starts you can use it as many times as you have CP for it. That's why the Raven Guard strategem Strike From The Shadows is so powerful. If you have 6 CP you can use it to place 6 units if you like because it happens between deployment and the start of the game. This gets around the 1 per phase rule because that is not a phase.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Claws and Effect

[Demoulius]

Oh woah, some of these things I missed were fairly obvious :|

 

Thanks for clearing it up brothers! Im abit salty for losing transport capacity on my dread but I guess il live

[wildweasel]

No worries! Really, the best approach is to treat this like an entirely new game - because it is. 4th through 7th were iterations of the same core engine. 8th, while it has some of the core concepts that have always been part of Warhammer, is a new beast.

 

And on Dreadnoughts: yeah, losing the (non-FW) drop pod is sad, but Dreads got SO much better compared to what they were.

Edited February 5, 2018 by wildweasel

[Brother Lunkhead]

Hold on to those old Dread Drop Pods..... they may come back in 9th Ed next year

Edited February 5, 2018 by Brother Lunkhead

[Ishagu]

There are separate Dreadnought Drop Pod rules, it's 80 points.

 

The model is coming soon.