2500pts vs. Custodes Tomorrow

[Archaeinox]

(Hey Prot... I finally painted my last 10 Tzaangors that have been sitting on the desk for 13 months! Aren't you proud of me?)

 

I'll be playing a 2500pt game vs. a friend's Custodes army Friday around 6pm CST. He has a Battalion of Custodes with a Vanguard (as expected). Of note, he has 5 Jetbikes. Instead of overthinking a list like I have done for a few days, I have decided to just whip up something. Anyway, we'll see how it works. I think it gives me a lot of options that I can decide on just before the battle/during deployment. We will be doing the basic Maelstrom mission.

 

I'll definitely be running different stuff in the future. Now that I have the Codex after 15 years of wanting one since I started playing Thousand Sons, I am really in no rush and had to settle on a list because the options are endless otherwise I'd never come up with anything for tomorrow.  Any tactical advice? Spell selection? 

 

<Thousand Sons Battalion Detachment>

Ahriman (Warlord)

Terminator Sorcerer w/ Familiar

10 Scarab Occult Terminators w/ Hellfyre Missile Rack x2

9 Rubric Marines 

9 Rubric Marines

9 Rubric Marines w/ Warpflamer x8

20 Tzaangors

5 Chaos Spawn

 

<Thousand Sons Spearhead Detachment>

Exalted Sorcerer

Predator w/ Heavy Bolter x2 and Combi-bolter

Predator w/ Lascannon x2

Land Raider 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Archaeinox

[Chronotonic]

first off I see 7 smites right off the bat

 

second

 

while custodes have a 2+ armor save the rubric bolters will make that a 4+ which will be the same as his invuln save as he will probably take full custodes to give them taht +1 to their invuln making it 4++

 

so high ap weapons wont help a lot here but low ap ones will which is what all your bolters do from the word go

 

only catch is that they are toughness5 to your bolters strength 4 which means hitting on a 5+ to wound then go from there

 

rapid fire will be your friend...as for the bikes to counter my mikes would be making them get stuck in a tar pit of 20+ models that they cannot kill in one turn which means they spend their turn to disengage and loose their abilities to charge or shoot next turn unless they use a stratagem which only helps your long game

 

he should have a slightly lower count but dont forget he has a 6+ save against physic phase powers but put enough out anyone can fail a 2+ save haha

 

good luck and take photos 

[Skerr]

I like your use of spearhead and volume of fire with weapons doing multi wounds.

 

MW, MW, MW... (mortal wounds)

 

Be wary of his assasin termies going after your characters and then splitting up to tie up your shooting. DMC might be good to mitigate but thats a luxury item not a commodity but think of how to mitigate that. He might know you will have a lot characters and bring the golden charakillers (I would take out as many mw outlets as i could if i was playing us)

 

Also forcing him to make as many saves as possible increases percentage of him failing. I know thats obvious but go overboard. I had a unit of khorne cultists (like 30) backed up by the chaos spiritual demagogue hq guy, 6th ed i think, and brought down 4 termies before the HQ attacked. It was unbelievably but the crazy number of attacks and buffs eventually equaled lost saves.

 

Good luck, i bet you will do well!

Edited February 2, 2018 by Skerr

[Archaeinox]

I will, thanks for the tips.

first off I see 7 smites right off the bat

 

second

 

while custodes have a 2+ armor save the rubric bolters will make that a 4+ which will be the same as his invuln save as he will probably take full custodes to give them taht +1 to their invuln making it 4++

 

so high ap weapons wont help a lot here but low ap ones will which is what all your bolters do from the word go

 

only catch is that they are toughness5 to your bolters strength 4 which means hitting on a 5+ to wound then go from there

 

rapid fire will be your friend...as for the bikes to counter my mikes would be making them get stuck in a tar pit of 20+ models that they cannot kill in one turn which means they spend their turn to disengage and loose their abilities to charge or shoot next turn unless they use a stratagem which only helps your long game

 

he should have a slightly lower count but dont forget he has a 6+ save against physic phase powers but put enough out anyone can fail a 2+ save haha

 

good luck and take photos 

 

TY for tips man, I will take pics.

 

 

I like your use of spearhead and volume of fire with weapons doing multi wounds.

MW, MW, MW... (mortal wounds)

Be wary of his assasin termies going after your characters and then splitting up to tie up your shooting. DMC might be good to mitigate but thats a luxury item not a commodity but think of how to mitigate that. He might know you will have a lot characters and bring the golden charakillers (I would take out as many mw outlets as i could if i was playing us)

Also forcing him to make as many saves as possible increases percentage of him failing. I know thats obvious but go overboard. I had a unit of khorne cultists (like 30) backed up by the chaos spiritual demagogue hq guy, 6th ed i think, and brought down 4 termies before the HQ attacked. It was unbelievably but the crazy number of attacks and buffs eventually equaled lost saves.

Good luck, i bet you will do well!

 Thanks for the tips on the terminators bud

[Prot]

Arch! I am so proud of you for painting 10 Tzaangors in 13 months! :tu:

 

I like the list. I love all the Rubrics, I love Ahriman as Warlord, I love the Landraider (it's a personal thing). I am surprised you're not fielding a DP with the new rules... fairly simple adjustment, not a lot 'new' to remember, but lots of advantages.

 

Forget Smiterry, you'll have the upper hand. Not to put pressure on you, but I feel like you will have the upper hand against a pure Custodes simply because there is no real Psychic protection (if I played Custodes I'd have minimum 1 Celuxes if not an Inq detachment for an extra CP and 2-3 assassins, and Grey Fax heading it up (she's viscous). 

 

Aside from smite you'll have great access to mortal wound tricks which are the great equalizer in this matchup. I'm sure you know it... it's a matter of getting it off before you're engaged.

 

Don't get me wrong, the Custodes are beefy as heck, you'll have to be careful not to get caught alone. It could easily fall apart. A few failed tests, and some units stuck in CC, and it could get ugly. Be patient.

 

Good luck, may the Dust be with you.

[Zodd1888]

I'd use those SOT as a wall. Drop them and split his forces with an immovable object keeping his forces from supporting one another. Spawn can pick off whoever goes after your termies.

 

Don't fall for the Warpflamer trap! I think best bet is falling back with the Land Raider after it's assaulted and unpacking the Flamers. This is probably be a good bet at getting a few rounds of shots in before they're gone. If we Alpha or Webway those Custodes will eat us in assault unfortunately.

 

Are you going to lead with the Spawn or try to flank?

[Skerr]

Do you plan on a unit of 9 flamer to wreck havok? Going against an assault army you might be good adding a couple more flamers per rubric unit or spreading out the 9. Your rubric are likley going to be assaulted.

 

Also doombolt those bikes so they dont charge your preds and LR and let Ahri add more mortals. Im sure you will have death hex on the list?

Edited February 2, 2018 by Skerr

[Raven1]

After watching Table Top Tactics video with Adeptus Custodes vs Thousand Sons. I think against those bikes death hex and doom bolt is an absolute must.

 

Magnus/Ahriman plus 2 psykers for the +2 strategem I think is also a must becuase you will need both those powers to go off every turn. Also Adeptus Custodes can swap warlords like alpha legion when one dies so be wary of that too.

[Prot]

I agree... but really the only way you can count on doombolt is with that Strategem. I intend on using Ahriman in this way. But i realize without the CPs, there’s no way I would bother with that one unless I unloaded with every other Sorc using all mortal wounding abilities available to me.

[Archaeinox]

I dont thing I would always webway the warpflamers but i like the option.. they will probably be waiting in the raider, or depending on what's happening be the guys to shoot somewhere via Dark Matter Crystal. 

[Skerr]

Good call Arch, the money shot right now is the WW DMC trick, though so many other capabilities. Agreed also that WW strat not the best strat against these guys.

Hopefully with good rolls you wont need to DB attempt to much, but to keep bikes at bay at range its is a must.

 

I didnt see the TTT battle just the review of dex. Was he able to wipe out those 3 bikes and if so how rounds? I will prob watch it late tonight though just curious.

[Kilofix]

You burn those villains and their false emperor.

[Paladin777]

I would think that a sword equipped prince would be quite valuable with its flat 3 damage. We don’t have very many of those weapons around. Just a suggestion.

 

It might not be worth the relic slot either, but an exalted with seer’s bane + diabolic strength might be a nasty little surprise too.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Paladin777

[Raven1]

I didnt see the TTT battle just the review of dex. Was he able to wipe out those 3 bikes and if so how rounds? I will prob watch it late tonight though just curious.

No the TS lost. I think he got one bike? But he didn't focus on them. He did have some bad rolls and was fairly unlucky on the game. The other army was just ultramarines with a supreme command detachment of A.C. HQ bikes.

[Prot]

The Thousand Sons player really struggled to kill anything. His list was over focused on Astartes type units. It really lacked numbers, and had zero Tzaangor presence, which like it or not, is becoming a mainstay in most meta's.  He really struggled with with every aspect of the game... as mentioned his psychic phases were pretty terrible too.  I think it Thousand Sons have bad psychic phases, it can be game ending.

[Kilofix]

When you say meta - you mean numbers / hordes and not Tzaangors specifically right? Or are we saying TS needs Tzaangors specifically?

[Panzer]

When you say meta - you mean numbers / hordes and not Tzaangors specifically right? Or are we saying TS needs Tzaangors specifically?

Well I'm sure Cultists would do well in a TSons army as well. Just not pure Astartes but that's a common problem among all Astartes armies (except for BA I guess since they can hit hard without being exposed to danger first and wreck hordes easily lol ).

[Zodd1888]

TS w/o Tzaangors is a hamstring. It is a reference to needing horde/chaff but with so much focus on assault, ie. Mutaliths and significant amount of Tzaangor focused/effective Strategems, you're fighting with a hand tied behind your back.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

The Thousand Sons player really struggled to kill anything. His list was over focused on Astartes type units. It really lacked numbers, and had zero Tzaangor presence, which like it or not, is becoming a mainstay in most meta's.  He really struggled with with every aspect of the game... as mentioned his psychic phases were pretty terrible too.  I think it Thousand Sons have bad psychic phases, it can be game ending.

Lawrence Baker (the TS player) had EXTREMELY terrible rolls for shooting, CC, and Psychic for 3 turns and still managed to kill a good chunk of the Ultras. However, the Custodes made EVERY deny roll with their Warlord Trait and Stratagem, so the powers that he DID succeed on were worthless if one of the Shield Captains was there. 

 

Took two turns of concentrated attention from 10 Rubricae and 10 SOT (WITH VETS!!) and finally, barely killed the Warlord....then the Imperium player just used Shoulder the Mantle and picked a new Warlord.

 

Favorite moment was when the Imperium player used a command point to reroll a save for a lascannon, failed it, Lawrence got a point back from the Helm and used that point to reroll the D6 damage for the kill. JUST AS PLANNED!!

 

Additionally, the channel only uses finished models and he didn't even have any Tzaangors assembled yet. Stated at the beginning that the list was far from optimal.

 

One last thing, there's a running joke that everyone on TTT keeps forgetting Death to the False Emperor....and sure enough, Lawrence forgot it for the first two turns.

Edited February 2, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Prot]

I've very familiar with his channel.... but to be fair, the UM list was pretty tame too. But yea, favorite moment was definitely what you described. :)

[The Yncarne]

I am unfamiliar with TTT. Can somebody PM me a link?

 

I’ve only remembered Death to the False Emperor after the relevant phase is over. :(

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I've very familiar with his channel.... but to be fair, the UM list was pretty tame too. But yea, favorite moment was definitely what you described.

Well, they THOUGHT it was tame, and found out that anything with 3 Shield Captains on bikes struggles to maintain any sense of "tameness"

 

Then there was the fact that Chef's flaming hot dice and Lawrence's bad luck were making it even worse.

 

My favorite quote was about the Storm Raven's destruction coming after "The Tzeentchiest Tzeentch that Ever Tzeentched." LOL.

[Raven1]

I am unfamiliar with TTT. Can somebody PM me a link?

 

I’ve only remembered Death to the False Emperor after the relevant phase is over. :(

YouTube table top tactics

[Zodd1888]

 

I am unfamiliar with TTT. Can somebody PM me a link?

 

I’ve only remembered Death to the False Emperor after the relevant phase is over. :(

YouTube table top tactics

Lawrence is also a tremendously well known, and successful, competitive player. He tends to rank well in tournaments and I believe won the last No Retreat invitational.

[Prot]

When you say meta - you mean numbers / hordes and not Tzaangors specifically right? Or are we saying TS needs Tzaangors specifically?

Generally I mean chaff is a requirement especially in elite armies. Specifically, I’d say there’s no reasons to take Cultists over Tzaangors unless you just didn’t have the points or you’re trying to fill in a Brigade. Especially now with the synergies of the new codex... Tzaangors generally speaking get better with more Tzaangors now... enlightened, Shaman, etc.