Aggressors shooting...

[Bloodblade]

Sorry for the basic question, but I am a novice to all this.

 

When the codex gives a number of shots for the aggressor's gauntlets, is that the number for the pair, or for each gauntlet?

 

There doesn't seem to be any way to tell. If there is please clue me in.

 

Thank you brothers.

[Paladin777]

I don’t have my codex on me at the moment so I don’t know for sure, but you need to look at the data slate entry where it says what the model is armed with. If it says that aggressors are armed with ‘2 gauntlets’ than it is armed with two separate weapons and you have two weapons for the amount listed. If it says it’s armed with ‘gauntlets’ than its only one weapon system.

 

I hope that helps and didn’t confuse you more.

[toaae]

They are armed with either Boltstorm Guantlets or Flamestorm Gauntlets. Not a pair of, just "... gauntlets". The weapon profile is also plural. So, each model has one of the gauntlets weapons, in addition to the frag grenade launcher if they have the boltstorm.

[barjed]

Yeah, they are armed with "gauntlets", so in this case a single weapon choice is two gauntlets. A single dakka Aggressor shoots 6+D6 times.

[Ornithologist]

or 2d6 flamer shots... or double that if they don't move.

[Panzer]

The flamer variant is really bad tho.

Less range, no missile pod, wastes the points for the special rule since you always hit automatically anyway, basically never gets to shoot double due short range so the points for that special rule are usually wasted as well and lastly.....you'd expect them to have something with a little bit more punch than regular flamer....heavy flamer for example.

[barjed]

Hear, hear. NEVER take flamers on them. Overwatch can be easily denied by standing 8.1" away and you basically waste two special rules at once.

[Xenith]

Hear, hear. NEVER take flamers on them. Overwatch can be easily denied by standing 8.1" away and you basically waste two special rules at once.

 

Win win for me, either opponent stands 8.1" away and has a below 50 % chance of making the charge without spending CP or they get to under 7" away and get overwatched. 

 

4D6 overwatch shots per model is very nice. That's 21 auto hits on average per unit of 3, enough to completely dissolve a unit of gaunts or cultists.

[barjed]

Or the enemy doesn't charge at all and simply shoots them off the board. 6W at T5 isn't very durable. Dakka Aggressors are simply way better or perhaps they make a better use of their special rules. They can reliably advance and shoot or shoot twice with clever positioning. I always run at least 4 with my SoS bunker and they have never failed me so far.

[Panzer]

 

Hear, hear. NEVER take flamers on them. Overwatch can be easily denied by standing 8.1" away and you basically waste two special rules at once.

 

Win win for me, either opponent stands 8.1" away and has a below 50 % chance of making the charge without spending CP or they get to under 7" away and get overwatched. 

 

4D6 overwatch shots per model is very nice. That's 21 auto hits on average per unit of 3, enough to completely dissolve a unit of gaunts or cultists.

 

A very small unit of gaunts or cultists. They'd kill only like 10 of those and then are stuck in 10-30 more of them who are going to kill them due weight of attacks without them being able to fall back since it should be extremely easy to surround them with so many models. :D

 

They really are too expensive and immobile for basic flamer.

I'll gladly trade their second flamer, T5 +1W and their Powerfists for FLY, deep strike, +1A, +1M by taking Company Veterans with Jump Pack, Chainsword and Combi-Flamer. I'd even save 9ppm there.

Now if Primaris had a cheaper transport than the Repulsor then I'd consider Flamer Aggressors more seriously. Right now tho the dakka variant is just so much better it's embarassing for whoever wrote the rules. You sacrifice nothing (except for not having to worry about the occasional negative to-hit modifier and more reliable overwatch) but gain range and way more damage output.

 

I agree about the 8.1" thing tho. Making the opponents charge more unlikely is just as good as killing some of his unit....unless the dice gods are on his side and he constantly rolls 8+ inches for his charge distance lol

[Ornithologist]

Now, I did have a rules thing come up in a game where my opponent said that the aggressors cannot double shoot on over watch if they moved during the previous turn. Does anyone have a clarification?

[Panzer]

Now, I did have a rules thing come up in a game where my opponent said that the aggressors cannot double shoot on over watch if they moved during the previous turn. Does anyone have a clarification?

That would be right. They have to remain stationary in their turn.

[Spagunk]

Aggressors are pretty much the real centurions we've been asking for in my opinion.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Spagunk

[Aothaine]

Aggressors are pretty much the real centurions we've been asking for in my opinion.

 

I love both models though. Part of me bemoans that we do not have access to cents in our dex. The models are beautiful!

 

Also, the Flamer variant would be useful in a few situations. Such as guarding a contested VP point. Sure they are normal flamers but even normal flamers can do a decent amount of damage. Remember the Quad/Tri flamer Crisis Suits. But I agree that the bolter variants are easier to use and have a higher chance of making their points back in an all-comers list.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Aothaine

[Panzer]

 

Aggressors are pretty much the real centurions we've been asking for in my opinion.

 

I love both models though. Part of me bemoans that we do not have access to cents in our dex. The models are beautiful!

 

ಠ_ಠ

takes a deep breath

... okay I'll let you have your opinion.

 

Also, the Flamer variant would be useful in a few situations. Such as guarding a contested VP point. Sure they are normal flamers but even normal flamers can do a decent amount of damage. Remember the Quad/Tri flamer Crisis Suits. But I agree that the bolter variants are easier to use and have a higher chance of making their points back in an all-comers list.

 

The Bolter variant is just as good and even better than the Flamer variant at defending objectives tho. Without negative to-hit modifier and average rolls you get 6 S4 AP0 D1 hits with the Bolter variant and 7 S4 AP0 D1 hits with the Flamer variant. Just that you have 10" more range and that if you don't move you double it to 12 S4 AP0 D1 hits. And they're cheaper as well for some reason.

And yeah the Flamer Crisis Suits are decent. That's mostly because the T'au BS sucks a lot and that Crisis are WAY more mobile with M8, FLY and Manta Strike. Plus they can get a bunch of Shield Drones for cheap protection as well.

Oh and they have a wound more. W3 is extremely valuable against D2 and D1d3 weapons since it most of the time means the opponent is wasting one damage when killing one of them.

[Ornithologist]

As far as how the models look, I do not like the frag launchers on top of them. They look like misshapen bunny ears to me. 

 

And since I tend to run a repulsor as a transport/gun platform anyway, the flamers make a good setup in my army. 

 

Final fun fact: I had a chaos player I game with regularly sit and mull for like 10 minutes about charging Abadon the Despoiler into the flamer Aggressors I run, or charging in with like 10 cultist and 3 raptors first. He could not figure out which units he wanted to take the overwatch. It was entertaining to me, though not the part where Abadon stabbed them all to death. Also, he took 2 wounds from the overwatch and those were the only ones I managed on him all game.

 

 

edit: It occurs to me that regardless of which weapon you you take, aggressors have a poor set up of special rules. 

 

They either get to do double attacks if they stand still, or no minus's to hit if they advance. They obviously cannot do both at them same time, so I guess which one is more important to you to use?

Edited February 6, 2018 by Ornithologist

[Panzer]

No matter which I'd like to use more...both are more useable for the Bolter variant due having more range. :D

[Ornithologist]

Of course mine are all ready painted and decaled, so mine will be flamers for ever.

[Panzer]

I mean, since I don't particularly fancy any of them, I'd probably go with Flamer as well just because I like Flamer. Maybe the Flamestorm Gauntlets will become cheaper in the future, who knows. If I wanted efficiency I'd just take Inceptors. :P

[CCE1981]

5 bolter Agressors standing close to a Repulsor are great at keeping deepstrikets away. Spending 2 CPs to shoot whatever drops within 12” is hilarious, the -1 to hit doesn’t mean that much when you fire 60+ 10d6 shots.

[Pendent]

I mean, since I don't particularly fancy any of them, I'd probably go with Flamer as well just because I like Flamer. Maybe the Flamestorm Gauntlets will become cheaper in the future, who knows. If I wanted efficiency I'd just take Inceptors.

 

You're not a fan of the models or the rules?

[Panzer]

 

I mean, since I don't particularly fancy any of them, I'd probably go with Flamer as well just because I like Flamer. Maybe the Flamestorm Gauntlets will become cheaper in the future, who knows. If I wanted efficiency I'd just take Inceptors.

 

You're not a fan of the models or the rules?

 

The rules.

Slow, rather short ranged + low quality shooting but paying points for power fists and not being particularly durable with 'just' T5 W2 Sv3+. It's a unit that kinda combines all the wrong things for me and is imo the worst Primaris units GW released.

[Pendent]

 

 

I mean, since I don't particularly fancy any of them, I'd probably go with Flamer as well just because I like Flamer. Maybe the Flamestorm Gauntlets will become cheaper in the future, who knows. If I wanted efficiency I'd just take Inceptors.

 

You're not a fan of the models or the rules?

 

The rules.

Slow, rather short ranged + low quality shooting but paying points for power fists and not being particularly durable with 'just' T5 W2 Sv3+. It's a unit that kinda combines all the wrong things for me and is imo the worst Primaris units GW released.

 

 

There's a bunch of mathhammer people that claim they're one of the most points efficient options in the marine codex in terms of straight firepower. I don't know that I agree with the idea of them being slow either- 5+d6 gives you a very respectable 8" average movement while still putting out some really decent firepower for a pretty workable threat range. The moment they get to stand still a 3 man unit, clocking in at just over 100 pts, puts out a massive 36 +6d6 bolter shots.

 

This averages out to a bit below 60 but for the sake of easy math lets say 60 shots even. Without rerolls 40 of those hit. Against Orks like you were posting about earlier that's 20 wounds or almost 17 dead boys, putting them into that sweet spot where mob rule starts to absolutely wreck them with every additional loss. And this is for a mere ~100 pts. Sure, they're fragile in some ways but you only need a turn or two of shooting to easily make their points up.

 

Going back to your post about facing Orks Agressors make an almost perfect unit to hold behind a screen of Intercessors for dealing with a horde charging you.

[Panzer]

Not saying they aren't points efficient. They're just lacking the means to deliver that damage (imo) and if they get caught up in a horde they even lose a whole turn or more of their damage output (lets be real, we really don't want to punch a blob of 40 minus overwatched Cultists or more with Powerfists for the rest of the game ^^).

 

Also since you seem to focus a lot on my post against Orks....it was mostly joking there. The Orks did well so far in our group but I don't think I'll have too many problems with them if I'll build a serious list regardless of how well Aggressors would do against them or not. ;)

[toaae]

I've fell in love with Aggressors. 111 points is a steal for the sheer firepower they put out, and I've had no issue getting them within range to fire every turn. On any turn that they manage to get the double shooting it, they are mean, but even with their normal shooting, they clean up chaff well enough for their points, aiding in opening up space for my assault units.