Mango Polo Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Honestly, a proper second Rite of War instead of the fluff token they were given. Chogorian Brotherhood is basically Bikes All The Time. Which is great, but if Jaghatai will have the option to be on foot... oops, he's locked out of his own army in that RoW. Plus it'd be good to see other aspects of the White Scar speed explored. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5020586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Fulgrim was raised on mega factory-dominated world like in that song "We don't want no education" I believe outside the factory cities there were desolate lands where semi-feral tribes roamed. One of these clans consisted of amazing swordmasters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5020587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Source?(about this swordmasters) And even if, so what? Angron - a gladiator,sejf explanatory. Russ - warrior culture, constant raids,duels and battles Khan - same Lion - knightly order, same as above + swords everywhere. Fulgrim is neither. Edited February 27, 2018 by rendingon1+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5020595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) My understanding is pre second world war the criteria for winning a Kenjitsu match was "would your opponent be incapacitated or dead in real life going at it with real weapons," How you did it was up to you... To this end trips, throws, grappling, chokes etc, were considered fair game. Alternatively hilarious situation: The Khan realizes he not going to beat Fulgrim in a stand up duel , gets inside his guard and puts a well placed fist in Fulgrims face or throat allowing himself time to disengage (and hurt Fulgrim's pride)... After all how do you beat the perfect Duelist.... don't make your fight a duel.... Force him to fight on your terms... Nah, it happened too many times in other books. Loken's and Sevatar's respective duels come to mind. Why Khan can't be just better? I really ain't buying Fulgrim's "master duelist" since we have Angron, Khan, Russ or (even more) the Lion, dudes that were literally training/fighting with swords since childhood. This idea of F being super swordsman came from nothing and is not good. The precedent for Daemon Fulgrim's ability is in the prologue to Dark Imperium, Roboute guilliman Duels with Daemon Fulgrim a couple of hundred years after the Heresy, it did not go well, and guilliman was outclassed from the beginning... back on topic.... I want to see justice done to the sagyar mazan. The books paint a mental image of them, that might be hard to live up to... Maybe some sort of un-broken variant of Death Frenzy from the 7th edition space wolves codex, or the ability to take dead mans switches that detonate explosives when the wielder dies in close combat... Edited February 27, 2018 by Laughingman Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5020672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 So are we to assume that demon Fulgrim will always win vs anyone? I think it would be a perfect occasion for non demon primarch to whoop his ass, unless people expect standard issue "demon primarchs win because". And BTW guilliman does not belong to "warrior primarchs". And plot demanded it. Kasper_Hawser 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5020769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I never saw any suggestion that the Wolves were subpar at voidwar in Scars. Their fleet was still undergoing repairs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisimo Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I never saw any suggestion that the Wolves were subpar at voidwar in Scars. Their fleet was still undergoing repairs. Sorry, I wasn’t clear. It’s not said in Scars but in Wolf King, also by Chris Wraight. Kasper_Hawser 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Ah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 So are we to assume that demon Fulgrim will always win vs anyone? I think it would be a perfect occasion for non demon primarch to whoop his ass, unless people expect standard issue "demon primarchs win because". And BTW guilliman does not belong to "warrior primarchs". And plot demanded it. Sad to say you are probably right, daemon primarchs would win "just because". if i'm not mistaken, Magnus smacked Guilliman around on the moon before the custodes and sisters of silence came, wasn't even a close fight. Still, I'm interested on what a "warrior primarch" can do to match up to a daemon one. After all, all primarchs are created to counter warp creatures. Which sadly includes themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 So are we to assume that demon Fulgrim will always win vs anyone? I think it would be a perfect occasion for non demon primarch to whoop his ass, unless people expect standard issue "demon primarchs win because". And BTW guilliman does not belong to "warrior primarchs". And plot demanded it. Sad to say you are probably right, daemon primarchs would win "just because". if i'm not mistaken, Magnus smacked Guilliman around on the moon before the custodes and sisters of silence came, wasn't even a close fight. Still, I'm interested on what a "warrior primarch" can do to match up to a daemon one. After all, all primarchs are created to counter warp creatures. Which sadly includes themselves. Are they, though? As you've said, Guilliman got beaten up by Magnus until he had anti-psyker support arrive. The Primarchs certainly seem to have been made somewhat aware about Warp creatures, but if Magnus wasn't taught about what they really were (other than just "don't touch!" after having been created as an incredibly powerful psyker), it doesn't seem likely that they were created to counter them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 So are we to assume that demon Fulgrim will always win vs anyone? I think it would be a perfect occasion for non demon primarch to whoop his ass, unless people expect standard issue "demon primarchs win because". And BTW guilliman does not belong to "warrior primarchs". And plot demanded it. Sad to say you are probably right, daemon primarchs would win "just because". if i'm not mistaken, Magnus smacked Guilliman around on the moon before the custodes and sisters of silence came, wasn't even a close fight. Still, I'm interested on what a "warrior primarch" can do to match up to a daemon one. After all, all primarchs are created to counter warp creatures. Which sadly includes themselves. Are they, though? As you've said, Guilliman got beaten up by Magnus until he had anti-psyker support arrive. The Primarchs certainly seem to have been made somewhat aware about Warp creatures, but if Magnus wasn't taught about what they really were (other than just "don't touch!" after having been created as an incredibly powerful psyker), it doesn't seem likely that they were created to counter them. I make this stipulation that even if they are not aware of their nature, all of them seem to be able to affect the warp and its denizens. I extrapolate this by the fact that the Khan was ripping apart the psychenuin on Prospero with just a power sword, yet the power sword seemed to act like a force weapon, instant deathing the psychhnuin. Also despite my example, Guilliman vs Magnus is hardly a fair matchup, one of which specifically being the king of sorcerors. And certainly, Guilliman has a better chance of taking on Magnus than the entire Space Wolves chapter combined. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisimo Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Honestly, a proper second Rite of War instead of the fluff token they were given. Chogorian Brotherhood is basically Bikes All The Time. Which is great, but if Jaghatai will have the option to be on foot... oops, he's locked out of his own army in that RoW. Plus it'd be good to see other aspects of the White Scar speed explored. Yes, please. I don't see the Shattered Legion rules in use anywhere because of their not-quite-approved status. Mango Polo 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) Can we please keep Age of 8th edition fluff out of it, please? :-) After all it depends on BL/FW idea of how things should unfold. They can give us a cool thing or be slaved to "you cannot beat chaooos weak mortal" which is derp. As for the sagyar mazan i'd prefere them to be a unit with equipment list like marauder squad (to represent stuff they picked along the way etc)and option for a 3leaders: sarge, centurion/consul, praetor to represent differnt officers who were exiled. Of course no Icharacter could join them, they would follow distrustful allies rule and should have a bunch of special rules like fearless, crusader etc. Edited February 28, 2018 by rendingon1+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Pre-Heresy Fulgrim and Khan were a close match-up I think...Daemon Fulgrim is gonna be tough Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Er...based on what? They never dueled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5021967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Sanguinius made it sound like they'd be s fairly even match. I'm inclined to trust the Angel's words. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344108-your-hopes-for-white-scars-in-fws-malevolence/page/6/#findComment-5022307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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