b1soul Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 In Scars, on Phemus, an AL squad ambushes (IIRC) a trio of WS bikers who turn out to be lodge members. Were the AL specifically targeting lodge members, who would likely be Horus supporters? Also, if you look at this FW slide: Note the box saying AL openly attack on Chondax. This was never covered in Scars or PoH. How could this have happened? BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Wait...it was revealed that those Lodge members were attacked by AL. I remember that this incident was left open. Or am I wrong? Maybe they're referring to the AL fleet, which engaged the Khan? Maybe we see more of them in the coming Malevolence book of Forge World? Scars, BAs, SWs and AL are covered. BAs having some actions near Chondax and we know of the AL vs. SW engagement, as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5003253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 As I recall, Shiban recovered the remains of the murdered WS and found lodge tokens. GAZ_AV_NZ and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5003287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I'll need to go back over the notes I got at the Malevolance seminar, but a large theme of the book is around external forces that want to use the Heresy for their own ends. Obviously for a lot of the traitors it's to topple the Emperor, for some it's purely for their own ascension (like the early daemon Primarchs, such as Fulgrim) and for others it's to settle scores and personal feuds. Daemons have their own desires outside of the grand plans of the chaos gods, and will be looking to cement their own power base during this time, either taking advantage of certain conflicts or working with other Legions or characters who align with their desires (i.e. the Word Bearers, Erebus, etc). One of the factions that was mentioned having a stake in the Heresy, and would look to indirectly shift the tide towards their own end, was the Cabal. The Alpha Legion, specifically the Primarchs, having had direct contact with their leaders and learning of the potential futures of whichever side eventually wins. A Legion renowned for it's subterfuge then starts looking at how it can stabilise / destabilise other Legions and forces to bring about one of the two eventualities, looking at a Legion that hasn't been firmly tied down by the Warmaster and is still free to roam the galaxy and become an issue. The Alpha Legion begin implementing a secret campaign to weaken the White Scar forces on Chondax covertly, until news around Istvvan V is known and then the Legion switch from covert to overt operations against the Scars. Its a bit of a shoe-horn in places, but I think it'll work well in the new book. Time will tell... BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5003322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 @ m_r_parker I really like the concept of diverse self-interests. At the surface, the Heresy apoears to be a binary between the Emp and the Chaos Gods, but when you delve deeper there's so much more to explore BLACK BLΠFLY, DarKnight and shandwen 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5003363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 In Scars, on Phemus, an AL squad ambushes (IIRC) a trio of WS bikers who turn out to be lodge members. Were the AL specifically targeting lodge members, who would likely be Horus supporters? Also, if you look at this FW slide: Note the box saying AL openly attack on Chondax. This was never covered in Scars or PoH. How could this have happened? If you're referring to Serpent Beneath novel than no, those 3 riders were just unfortunate to be around. Pure accident. AL purpose on Chondax was not to kill WS but to stall the campaign and keep them busy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5003484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Was it Serpent Beneath? Thought it was Scars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5003535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggtand Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) It is in both In Scars, just when they are preparing to leave the Chondax campaign whe see it from WS perspective. And in Serpent Beneath where team that infiltrate the their own base is recalled from Phemus IV where we see them ambush a WS patrol. Edited February 5, 2018 by Huggtand Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5003590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) Was it Serpent Beneath? Thought it was ScarsThree bikers killed by AL in Serpent beneath are later discovered by Shiban's men in Scars. A very, very nice and subtle tie in by Chris. Edited February 5, 2018 by rendingon1+ Marshal Loss and 1ncarnadine 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Great thread !!! Learning a lot ! Draakur 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 Shiban discoveres lodge tokens...so I was wondering if they were targeting lodge members. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 AL purpose was not to kill WS at all only complicate their campaign progress (to keep them in place for longer). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 What was the end-goal? What would such delay contribute to their schemes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 To keep the White Scars mired in a war across the galaxy, to take them out of the equation while the Warmaster starts taking apart the other loyalist Legions. Even if the AL are not under the orders of the Warmaster, they would be operating under the Cabals revelation that aiding Horus would eventual result in the destruction of Chaos. It’s the same policy that saw the Ultramarines gathering at Calth, or sending the Dark Angels off across the universe - if you can’t physically deal with them, remove them from the equation by sending them away and keeping them there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 So these AL counted the WS as likely loyalists and wished to aid Horus by delaying them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 What stands out to me the most about Scars is how nobody seemed to know where the V would end up when the music stopped. Even Malcador honestly is not sure. People speculate that Horus was the closest thing to a friend the Khan had among brothers...but that was more Horus being Horus than anything on the Khan’s part. So if in-universe folks had to guess...they would guess Khan would dude with Horus. But even Horus wasn’t so sure. That’s why the V were such an honest wildcard. Horus could not eliminate or neutralize them without being sure because A. Having an extra Legion on your side = tipping point of victory B. Openly attacking a fellow Legion is the one sure way to send them to the other side. Why the whole idea of Khan going to Prospero to see for himself and make up his own mind is awesome. ...so it’s actually a smart play to send the AL to stall and befuddle the WS until other forces are neutralized. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 The Khan was also quite close to Magnus...so two Traitor buddies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5004963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisimo Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I hope we also get some insight into the Alpha Legion’s own little civil war. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5006509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I thought there was an ambiguity with AL interaction with the WS - hold them in place so as to get a certain message. IIRC, Khan doesn't quite believe it so you get the mass fleet manoeuvre away and off to Prospero to find out for himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5006994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisimo Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I thought there was an ambiguity with AL interaction with the WS - hold them in place so as to get a certain message. IIRC, Khan doesn't quite believe it so you get the mass fleet manoeuvre away and off to Prospero to find out for himself. Alpharius's guys set up a thing that blocks communication with the rest of the galaxy. Omegon's try to blow it up in The Serpent Beneath. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5007303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I thought there was an ambiguity with AL interaction with the WS - hold them in place so as to get a certain message. IIRC, Khan doesn't quite believe it so you get the mass fleet manoeuvre away and off to Prospero to find out for himself. Alpharius's guys set up a thing that blocks communication with the rest of the galaxy. Omegon's try to blow it up in The Serpent Beneath. Omegon's guys didn't *try* to do anything. rendingon1+ 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5007451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Mortarion doesn't seem to have thought Alpharius was following the script at Chondax, for what it's worth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344113-purpose-of-al-interference-at-chondax/#findComment-5009290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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