Weekender News. 30k Going to 8th...Eventually.

[ProsperoStands]

Word from the front lines is that 30k will make the move eventually once all the legions have full 7th rules.

So realistically we will be seeing a migration by 2020 at the earliest, more then likely 2021ish.

 

 I know that the 30k community has been divided on 8th ed. Some feel that the revised 7th Ed rules is best for 30k, others feel 30k needs to move to 8th in order to survive and draw new players.

 

What are people's thoughts and opinions on this?

 

 I for one am not a huge fan of 8th ed rules...but the fact is I would rather see 30k bring in new players and keep it going then see it die in obscurity.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ProsperoStands

[Soldier of Dorn]

I've pretty much quit 40k proper simply because I don't find 8e fun. Not bashing it here, nor am I making any formal criticisms: it's got interesting ideas, but I genuinely just don't enjoy playing it after several games, and I doubt putting 30k units into the same ruleset will change any of that. So I'm not looking forward to it myself.

 

That's how I feel about it on a personal level, of course. So far as the community goes... I don't know that I have a clear opinion on it. I hope it goes well. I genuinely do love this hobby and hope it thrives, even if it's not something I can personally take enjoyment in anymore. But one wonders if that'll be the case. And to tell you the truth... I don't know. I think the Heresy community remains strong either way, and it's hard to formulate an opinion on which way might be better objectively, even if such a thing exists.

[Huggtand]

It's been discussed to death on B&C since the release of 8th 

 

I personally think it is good for the long future to not have two core systems but I also think it is very important that FW take their time to port over the right feel of the 30K to 8th. Another important thing is that they have a complete range before they port over. That way you can choose what system to use.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Huggtand

[m_r_parker]

As someone who was at the Weekender, and therefore among the 'front lines', I'd like to hear where that came from - because if I heard it I would have remembered!

 

Certainly what I've heard is that once the remaining Legions get completed (i.e. Blood Angels, Dark Angels and White Scars) the writers will get around to consolidating everything into a new set of Red Books, along with making some changes to the more generic Legion Astartes lists and units. The example given was in the Malevolence seminar about Destroyers, specifically that whilst Blood Angels tackle the use of Destroyers in a Legion differently (i.e. there are no dedicated Destroyer units, it's more of a Jury Duty type model) the rules for these BA Destroyers will move across to the Red Books as an updated base for the generic Destroyer unit. So it'll be less bolt pistols and more or the terrifying weapons of doom, like they should be ;)

 

If someone can come up with where it was specifically said I can look back to see whether this correlates (provided it's in a seminar and not just a random convo with a writer somewhere). 8th has some things right (i.e. bringing back the movement characteristic, and differentiating armour penetration from weapon strength), but on the whole it feels far too simplified, and whilst 7th can be clunky it feels more complete to me. I'd rather they keep 7th for as long as possible, at least until 40k have gone through a couple of FAQs and ironed out all the kinks. 

[ProsperoStands]

I heard this tid bit 2nd hand from a friend who was overseas and was able to snag tickets to the weekender, so there is a very good possibility he heard wrong.

 

 

But yes, if 30k makes the transition I hope it is only after 8th has been fixed of some of its major issues.

[helterskelter]

It'll be 9th by that point

[Soldier of Dorn]

the rules for these BA Destroyers will move across to the Red Books as an updated base for the generic Destroyer unit. So it'll be less bolt pistols and more or the terrifying weapons of doom, like they should be

 

 

 

 

That's the first I've heard of an updated base unit for Destroyers. Doubly excited for Malevolence now.

[Elzender]

I think it would be the fairest solution possible, and one I personally hoped for. This way, both pro-7th and pro-8th will have a complete game system available, and everybody will be free to choose which one they prefer (or both if they fancy that). While it could be argued that 7th edition will be abandoned, I hope the rules writers will leave everything as clarified as possible before making the transition. Specific issues that might come later can always be resolved through house rules or community agreements, and legacy tournaments (which I think precisely in this setting and its community are viable) can always apply corrections or restrictions.

[kijamon]

I was there and that wasn't even remotely what I heard/saw.

 

In fact the summary on another forum where people made it in to the very crammed 40 capacity discussion on the Age of Darkness doesn't have this either.

 

Your friend is wrong and the decision isn't even being looked at until 2020 at the earliest.

[m0nolith]

This is a direct copy of a bloke named Penddraig and is an excerpt of his summary on another forum, so all credit goes to him for this.

 

This was during the AoD seminar:

 

Inevitably, 8th Edition raised its head.  At this point they asked the audience what they preferred.  One person didn`t care, they just wanted to play; one person came in favour of 8th ed.  The rest were firmly 7th ed.  Now, let’s be honest.  That`s not a decent sample group and the team acknowledge that the online community shows a clear division.  What they did confirm was there will be no rules changes until all Legions, Mechancium, Dark Mechanicum and daemons have their full rules and units.  At that point there will be a review.  In reality that means we will be officially sticking with the AoD 1st ed. rules until at least 2020.

 

After that, they did float some possibilities.  These included:

1.    Sticking with AoD rules

2.    Conversion to the current edition of 40k

3.    A blending of the AoD and 8th ed. rules

4.    A bespoke rules set

[m_r_parker]

No wonder I didn't hear about it - this was the Age of Darkness Forum, a Demo Pod whilst I was in the Future of Necromunda seminar in the main hall.

 

It seems they've got their heads screwed on that they won't be looking to do this until all the forces have their respective lists and rules. The last thing we need is for the writers to be further distracted, these will be the same guys that have to write the upcoming Black Books, the much delayed Imperial Armour book, and no doubt be required to convert 30k Custode into 40k 8th Edition. 

[dicebod]

This is a direct copy of a bloke named Penddraig and is an excerpt of his summary on another forum, so all credit goes to him for this.

 

This was during the AoD seminar:

 

Inevitably, 8th Edition raised its head.  At this point they asked the audience what they preferred.  One person didn`t care, they just wanted to play; one person came in favour of 8th ed.  The rest were firmly 7th ed.  Now, let’s be honest.  That`s not a decent sample group and the team acknowledge that the online community shows a clear division.  What they did confirm was there will be no rules changes until all Legions, Mechancium, Dark Mechanicum and daemons have their full rules and units.  At that point there will be a review.  In reality that means we will be officially sticking with the AoD 1st ed. rules until at least 2020.

 

After that, they did float some possibilities.  These included:

1.    Sticking with AoD rules

2.    Conversion to the current edition of 40k

3.    A blending of the AoD and 8th ed. rules

4.    A bespoke rules set

 

This is the best outcome.  Finish 30k with the ruleset it started with, then address how to continue the legacy of the game beyond that.

[ShadowCore67]

I like both editions for different reasons.

 

I like 8th for 40k. 40k is more popular and the simplified ruleset works for it. And although it may be a lot more simpler it's still by no means uncomplicated.

 

I feel 7th fits 30k better. Its a more advanced ruleset. Dare I say "hardcore" ruleset. 30k has always felt more competitive and strategic to me so it fits my preferences.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ShadowCore67

[Gorgoff]

It's been discussed to death on B&C since the release of 8th

 

I personally think it is good for the long future to not have two core systems but I also think it is very important that FW take their time to port over the right feel of the 30K to 8th. Another important thing is that they have a complete range before they port over. That way you can choose what system to use.

That pretty much nailes it.

I might add, that making a new edition, with best parts of both systems would be the best option. Take all the stuff 8th took from secon Edition, forget the rest, and add that to the 1st edition Horus Heresy and you are on a very good way.

[Marshal Rohr]

I think we should take Penndraig’s quote and pin it until new info comes out to head off any arguments

[Corswain]

It’s pretty much exactly what I thought they’d do. No problem for me, not a big gamer, but I think that once it’s all done in 7th and they release 8th, there’s nothing stopping people from playing whatever edition they want.

 

May be stirring the pot a bit here but by the time they finish, we might be looking at 9th, not 8th. ;)

[Scribe]

I would think so Corswain.

[Noserenda]

The Sooner they convert over to 8th the better tbh.

They are at least apparently looking to patch the Psychic system to make it less awful in Malevolence.  

[Master Sheol]

i dont like 7th edition ruleset...

and IMHO FW will stay with 7th edition with HH

I dont see them migrating to 8th edition rules

[HighMarshalAlex]

I hope it stays in 7th. My dislike of 8th is what finally pushed me to start building a legion. I don't think 8th is terrible or anything, it's just a different game, and it's not for me. It just doesn't feel like 40k imo

[Khornestar]

I'd be happy if it ended up being ported over to 8th, but as the frater above mentioned, it seems likely that GW will have released 9th edition by the time FW is done with 7th edition HH rules. 

[carlisimo]

The report I got from an attendee included what m0nolith posted, along with a couple tidbits more:

1. It hasn't happened, but the FW team wouldn't be shocked if GW eventually told them what to do.

2. With the current staffing and organizational structure, don't expect FW to use the exact same rules as 40k, FAQs and updates and all, because GW has moved to a frequent update process.

3. They see 30k's rules as being based on 6th edition with a lot of 7th's changes layered on top, and a precedent for taking 8th and adding 30k-specific rules to it.  The result would not necessarily feel like 8th ed. 40k.

4. They haven't spent much time thinking about it yet.  All they know is, no changes for a while. 

 

Personally, I think players do eventually get bored of a given set of rules.  Doesn't mean I like the sound of 8th, but it's so basic that small tweaks would make a big difference.  Make terrain effects more prominent; add 90 or 180 degree arcs and give a lot of units a rule that they're easier to wound from behind (and/or the sides); throw out the strategem thing altogether, or at least reduce their effects.  There's a fine line between "based on 8th" and "bespoke" for FW to explore if they want and if we want.

[Brofist]

I mean, that's effectively saying 'there will eventually be a HH 2nd edition' which I think most everyone expects anyway. They can borrow ideas from wherever they want, it's a separate game system now.

[Master Sheol]

I mean, that's effectively saying 'there will eventually be a HH 2nd edition' which I think most everyone expects anyway. They can borrow ideas from wherever they want, it's a separate game system now.

Yes after all army lists for 7th probably or maybe after all the Black books including the Siege of Terra

We are talking of minimum 4/5 years from now and the problem in that days Will bè not to switch to 8th but to switch to 9th or 10th so it's too early to segue about that IMHO

[Laughingman]

I still want a hybrid 7th/8th: AKA 2nd edition Horus Heresy 

 

1.Bring over Armor save modifiers, so we actually see variation in close combat war gear (When was the last time you saw  a power sword/lightning claw,etc in the age of darkness?) 

2. Keep flamer templates, i'm still open to getting rid of blast templates (small blast templates consume outrageous amounts of time especially the omnipresent quad launchers)

3. I vastly prefer the 8th edition psychic phase, it takes far less time in my experience

 

Basically I want a system that prompts interesting and varied war gear and unit section, instead of a small number of good points efficient units/gear and a bunch of stuff no one will ever use. IE When was the last time you saw someone bring Rotor cannons, heavy chain blades, Destroyer squads, Etc. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Laughingman