Vlka: 30K Space Wolves Army Ideas

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello.

 

So, I'll keep this simple; I have about 180 Mark III Iron Armor plastic Space Marines, as, when trying to ensure I had the models I needed to do my planned WH30K army, I guess I thought each box had fewer than the 60 Marines per box that they come with in one.

 

So, I have like ten currently built, some as Vet's and some as Grey Slayers.

 

If you had 170 Mark III SM's needing to be built, a decent number of SW Mark III resin Torsos, a solid number of the SW Mark III Legion Left Shoulder Pad, and no idea how to proceed with a fun, fluffy and effective force, what advice would you consider giving to a person in this situation?

 

Because this is my dilemma currently.

 

I like the idea of doing BG, BP, CSword Grey Slayers; however, with so many bodies, the idea of some packs having the Combat Shields seems like a potentially interesting consideration here.

 

Please advise.

[Hellrender]

Depends how you run them.

 

In a rhino the combat shields are a bit wasted, as they are most effective in combat.

 

Most of the time, i would consider bolters, bp, cs. And then sprinkle a mix of combis and pw. Then you have a versatile squad that can either shoot combis (let when they get out of a rhino or pod), or charge or counter attack and make use of the power weapons.

 

That said, rule of cool first. So sprinkle some combat shields ;)

[Baluc]

TERMITES!!!

Seriously build your infantry, you are going to need a lot of variations on special weapon combinations. But wait for Termites they work perfectly with Pale Hunters. 

[Hfran Morkai]

I'm building an Orbital Assault list so my first two Slayers packs are Bolter equipped barring a Power Fist.

 

I just love the idea of raining fire down on my enemies.

 

Thats to start with. After I'll add armour and the like to represent different task force variations but Drop Pods for the win!

[Karack Blackstone]

I can make six packs of 20 Grey Slayers each, and still have 60 models left over.

 

I have about 12 or so built now, seven as Vet's with BG, BP, CS, and five as Grey Slayers, with the same, and a Leader with a BP and PSword.

 

If the cost of the FW Grey Slayer upgrade kits were not so high, I might honestly get a boat-load of them soon. Still, that's an internal debate I need to have soon.

[Karack Blackstone]

Update time.

 

I have made no real progress on my 30K Vlka at this time. That typed, I do think I will primarily go with the BG, BP, ChS Grey Slayer loadouts, for now, with my basic Troops.

 

I do wonder though, what to do about squad sizes. 20 Mk. III SW's running around per pack, with 6 packs in my Troops choices seems pretty devastating overall. The problem is, are Rhinos worth it in WH30K? Most of the time I would lose my Rhinos so fast in 7th and back that it was never really fun to run them; the problem was, without Rhinos, at least against T'au, the vast majority of the time I would be removing whole units in one volley from a single enemy unit instead.

 

So, thoughts:

 

HQ: Praetor, attached Honor/Command Squad, 5 Astartes

Elite: 3 Veteran Grey Slayer Packs, 10 GS's each

Troops: 6 Grey Slayer Packs, 20 GS's each

FA: (?)

HS: Long Fangs, (?)

LoW: Russ, if I can get him some time soon

 

I am thinking of doing the GS WGPL (Sergeant) with BP and Power Sword, for all of them. I'd like to give them a Boltgun, and I think I can, unless a recent FAQ says otherwise

 

Feedback please.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I find that most of the big guns of 30k would kill Marines quite easily. So unless you are planning on counting on some Outflankers (from Hvarl maybe) then that list will get eaten.

 

Maybe knock some of the 20 strong Grey Slayers to 10 strong in rhinos, fill your HS slots with Spartans or bring Storm Eagles. Just something to keep the boys alive until the murder-make can begin

[Karack Blackstone]

I currently have two Spartans and a Storm Eagle, all of which are going to be painted into 40K SW's colors.

 

If money were no object, I could go with three Spartans; the problem is, if I recall correctly, Storm Eagles are either Fast Attack of Heavy Support. If FA, I can get three; if HS, the fliers problems of deployment timing rears its ugly head.

 

In an ideal world, I would just get three Spartans as HS's, and three Storm Eagles, as FA. I just need a quick reminder what SE's are in 30K's books, as I do not have the updated Core Heresy book in front of me, but I can check it later tonight.

[Karack Blackstone]

Hm.

 

I looked up the entry Storm Eagles are under both online and again in the Astartes red book. Storm Eagles are Fast Attack, so...

 

Considerations:

- Three Spartans, Heavy Support

- Three Storm Eagles, Fast Attack

- Six 20 strong Grey Slayer Packs, 19+1 WGPL each

- Four Varagyr Packs, 10 strong each, with a Spartan for each

 

Here's the problem...

 

Battlescribe does not have accurate entries to build a force, and, considering the sheer points cost of all the above alone, I am debating getting up to three Command Packs, to put it simply. The problem is, I need to fill three Spartans with up to five more bodies, which means at least three Legion Praetors with a 4 strong Command unit, to aid the three Grey Slayers in those Spartans. As far as the remaining balance of my points, I am unsure as to what to really do, as the Legion Praetor and 4 strong Command packs might be better served putting in Legion Consuls, be they equivalently WGBL, or, a Speaker of the Dead and a Caster of Runes.

 

So, yes, still in an ideal world, the problem is, clearly, cost, in both points and money. Still, I seem to be stuck with the go big or go home mindset, that's for sure...

 

Advice please.

[Gorgoff]

Hm.

Have you considered donating some of your organs?

[Spiritual Liege]

Don't you think it'll be a bit boring if everything you have are just guys in Spartans? Especially your elite slots, 20 Varagyr is more than enough and some Dreadnoughts would diversify a little.

[Dantay VI]

How many points does this run up to?

 

You are going to need 1 hq per 1000 points.

 

Have you considered the Caestus Assault Ram?

[Karack Blackstone]

Don't you think it'll be a bit boring if everything you have are just guys in Spartans? Especially your elite slots, 20 Varagyr is more than enough and some Dreadnoughts would diversify a little.

 

How many points does this run up to?

 

You are going to need 1 hq per 1000 points.

 

Have you considered the Caestus Assault Ram?

 

Thank you both, certainly things to consider.

 

I realize that 40 Varagyr is likely overkill, and the Spartan is not popular with everyone, in such numbers.

 

The Caestus I consider unwise and badly designed: why would anyone willingly part a pack, such that, if the flyer gets cut in two between the two transport bays, half the squad is effectively an automatic casualty? It seems to me just like someone intentionally went out of their way to put Astartes lives at risk.

 

As far as the Dreadnoughts go, certainly an option, and, likely far cheaper, so I will think on this concept. If there were Ven Dread's with Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield available in the HH, I'd certainly look to run those; sadly they are not, so if anything, maybe a Leviathan unit, plus one other.

 

So, as far as Battlescribe is concerned, there's one major flaw: I am around 9,250 points for the current build:

 

Crusade FOC

 

3 HQ

1 Legion Praetor Tribune (Where the ---- is this dude from?), 4 strong Command Pack, Land Raider Phobos, Extra Armor, Secondary Drive, Frag Assault Launchers, (Cataphractii TDA)

2 Legion Praetor, 4 strong Command Pack, Land Raider Phobos, Extra Armor, Secondary Drive, Frag Assault Launchers, (Cataphractii TDA)

 

4 Elite

4 10 man Varagyr packs, Combi-Bolter, Frost Sword, Spartan with Armored Ceramite, Extra Armor, Secondary Drive, Frag Assault Launchers

 

6 Troops

6 20 man Grey Slayer packs, 1 WGPL, BP, Chainsword; 19 Grey Slayers, BP, BG, Chainsword each

 

3 Fast Attack

3 Storm Eagles with Armored Ceramite, Extra Armor, Two Twin-Linked Lascannon, Multi Melta (Nose)

 

3 Heavy Support

3 Spartans with Armored Ceramite, Extra Armor, Secondary Drive, Frag Assault Launchers

 

1 Lord of War, maybe

1 Fellblade, Extra Armor, Armored Ceramite, SM Legion Crew

[Dantay VI]

You are in need of 7 more HQ's then :D

[Karack Blackstone]

You are in need of 7 more HQ's then

 

Now if only my Battlescribe would let me put in and consider legal those extra seven HQ choices...

 

Edit:

 

One other thing: I am getting an odd data translation occurrence, after having made a roster on one computer, emailing the roster to myself, and then downloading said roster onto another computer.

 

Varagyr are not permitted to take any form of Frost weapon on this computer I am currently posting from, according to the on-system Battlescribe.

 

What's truly odd is, this problem persists after checking for BS updates, as well as fully deleting my data and trying multiple ways to update the data files as well.

 

Getting both annoying and downright weird, really.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

as much as I loved BS, i've stopped using it.

 

It's just prone to crashing too often and telling me that half my stuff is illegal. Not worth the headache.

 

Bust out some paper and pencil and do it the old fashioned way...after writing it 4/5 times you'll have it memorized! 

[Karack Blackstone]

While not ideal, here goes the most recent list.

 

10,000 Points

Legion: Space Wolves

Crusade FOC

Armored Spearhead

 

HQ:

3 Legion Praetors, each with: Cataphractii TDA, C-TDA Command Squad, 3 + Banner Bearer, Land Raider Phobos, Extra Armor, Secondary Motive Drive, Frag Assault Launchers

3 Legion Consuls, each with: Artificer Armor, BG, Refractor Field, all other options normal

Caster of Runes, Mastery Level 2, Aether-Rune Armor, BG, Force Sword, Meltabombs

3 Speakers of the Dead, Meltabombs, Artificer Armor

 

Elites (For Now)

4 Varagyr C-TDA Packs, 1 Thegn, 9 Varagyr, Combi-Bolter, Frost Sword; Spartan, Frag Assault Launchers, Armored Ceramite, Secondary Drive

 

Troops

6 Grey Slayer Packs, WGPL, 19 Grey Slayers; WGPL adds BG, all GS's have BP, BG, Chainsword

 

Fast Attack

3 Storm Eagles, each with: 2 Twin-Link Lascannon, Multi-Melta, Extra Armor, Armored Ceramite

 

Heavy Support

3 Spartans, each with: Frag Assault Launchers, Armored Ceramite, Secondary Drive

 

Lord of War

Fellblade, Armored Ceramite, Secondary Drive, Space Marine Legion Crew

 

I am currently unsure if Dreadnoughts are better or worse than Varagyr, although four of the same choice seems a little uninspired. The problem is, there's so little inspiration in me at times, and it does make some sense as to how to arrange my force, as if it were three separate, working together Companies...

 

Please advise.

 

Edit:

 

Forgot the Grey Slayers for Troops, sorry.

[Dantay VI]

Wouldnt you need grey slayers in that list as compulsary troops choices?

 

HAve you considered a moritat, to act as a lone wolf and maybe a vigilator to act as super scout? Put him with a squad of seekers to delete a tough unit. Seekers however would take up a FA slot. 

 

Ensure your praetors have the paragon blade, as that is an outo include for hem, maybe digi lasers for the +1 attack too.

 

Your army is also fairly compact so combi-meltas to hit ap2 and SM units hard before assault as you have very little ap2 melee capability or combi flamers to burn out all the chaff if you face hordes...

 

Dreads go down fast and can be one-shotted if your opponent gets lucky.

 

If you want to go for less varagyr, look at tactical vets.. Load them up in a rhino with pintle mounted multi-melta

 

Or deathsworn with a 2+ armour save and can run with Speakers of the Dead

[Karack Blackstone]

While not ideal, here goes the most recent list.

 

10,000 Points

Legion: Space Wolves

Crusade FOC

Armored Spearhead

 

HQ:

3 Legion Praetors, each with: Cataphractii TDA, C-TDA Command Squad, 3 + Banner Bearer, Land Raider Phobos, Extra Armor, Secondary Motive Drive, Frag Assault Launchers

3 Legion Consuls, each with: Artificer Armor, BG, Refractor Field, all other options normal

Caster of Runes, Mastery Level 2, Aether-Rune Armor, BG, Force Sword, Meltabombs

3 Speakers of the Dead, Meltabombs, Artificer Armor

 

Elites (For Now)

4 Varagyr C-TDA Packs, 1 Thegn, 9 Varagyr, Combi-Bolter, Frost Sword; Spartan, Frag Assault Launchers, Armored Ceramite, Secondary Drive

 

Troops

6 Grey Slayer Packs, WGPL, 19 Grey Slayers; WGPL adds BG, all GS's have BP, BG, Chainsword

 

Fast Attack

3 Storm Eagles, each with: 2 Twin-Link Lascannon, Multi-Melta, Extra Armor, Armored Ceramite

 

Heavy Support

3 Spartans, each with: Frag Assault Launchers, Armored Ceramite, Secondary Drive

 

Lord of War

Fellblade, Armored Ceramite, Secondary Drive, Space Marine Legion Crew

 

I am currently unsure if Dreadnoughts are better or worse than Varagyr, although four of the same choice seems a little uninspired. The problem is, there's so little inspiration in me at times, and it does make some sense as to how to arrange my force, as if it were three separate, working together Companies...

 

Please advise.

 

Edit:

 

Forgot the Grey Slayers for Troops, sorry.

 

Wouldnt you need grey slayers in that list as compulsary troops choices?

 

HAve you considered a moritat, to act as a lone wolf and maybe a vigilator to act as super scout? Put him with a squad of seekers to delete a tough unit. Seekers however would take up a FA slot. 

 

Ensure your praetors have the paragon blade, as that is an outo include for hem, maybe digi lasers for the +1 attack too.

 

Your army is also fairly compact so combi-meltas to hit ap2 and SM units hard before assault as you have very little ap2 melee capability or combi flamers to burn out all the chaff if you face hordes...

 

Dreads go down fast and can be one-shotted if your opponent gets lucky.

 

If you want to go for less varagyr, look at tactical vets.. Load them up in a rhino with pintle mounted multi-melta

 

Or deathsworn with a 2+ armour save and can run with Speakers of the Dead

 

Forgot to list the Grey Slayer packs; I edited the post with my list and fixed that issue.

 

As it is, I will take your advice and consider it well. I do like the Varagyr, but, as far as the various options go, Vet Tac's make sense; the problem is, even though they're not ideal all the time, having four Varagyr packs tearing it up in Spartans is not exactly an ideal situation to have to try and stop, on the table. The rub is, as my list is at 10,000 Points, I will need to adjust to fit the Paragon Blades on all three Praetors.

 

Hm...

[Dantay VI]

Your speakers of the dead can take a deathsworn squad instead of a command squad should they choose:)

 

Also what about dropping a Storm Eagle and going for a Sky Hunter squadron with a Thegn or Jarl on jetbike to accompany them. It'll give you a hard hitting mobile unit which can also fight in melee.

 

Swap out a Spartan for  a Sicaran Venator or even a second LoW Cerberus, which could help shut down other superheavies.

 

At 10K points its more akin to apocalypse isnt it?

[Karack Blackstone]

Your speakers of the dead can take a deathsworn squad instead of a command squad should they choose:)

 

Also what about dropping a Storm Eagle and going for a Sky Hunter squadron with a Thegn or Jarl on jetbike to accompany them. It'll give you a hard hitting mobile unit which can also fight in melee.

 

Swap out a Spartan for  a Sicaran Venator or even a second LoW Cerberus, which could help shut down other superheavies.

 

At 10K points its more akin to apocalypse isnt it?

 

Yes, 10,000 is more Apocalypse than normal.

 

I'm... not used to variations in my lists. Redundancy has been pretty heavily drilled into me, however, two Sky Hunter squadrons seems like it would be a nice thing. However, if that means one of my Grey Slayer packs is footslogging, I intend to run an Armored Spearhead Company, so that means everyone needs a ride.

 

As far as other options, I am unsure as to how to approach WH30K, as I've never played a game of it, thus far.

 

Still, the very real threat of so many AV 14 transports running rampant across the table appeals to me...

[Karack Blackstone]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/08/the-futures-bright-for-the-age-of-darkness/

 

Malevolence will have Space Wolves rules.

 

Well, I guess I need to set some money aside for this purchase...

 

I'm curious what the Vlka will get in terms of updates.

[quinnwolf]

I don't think there will be loads of extra stuff but I'd hope for:

 

An extra Rite of War

Another named character - perhaps a Caster of Runes (as there are several detailed in the fluff) or Speaker of the Dead. I don't think we'll see Bjorn even as he is rising to prominence (they stuffed it up by making Geigor).

I can't think of any new unit they could add, perhaps a lone wolf type job, like a melee moritat although you can already represent this with a centurion.

 

As to the original post, sounds like you'll be able to make a very fluffy, infantry heavy list but be warned you will get sick of painting grey, until you get to the detailing it feels like you are spending hours replicating the original plastic colour!!! I'm 70 troops in out of 100 and i've gone snow blind.

[Dantay VI]

We might finally see some Deathsworn models and Wulfen, as we know from Weregeld the Raptors of the Raven Guard encountered some and killed them to hide what they had also become.

 

Campaign wise, probably a brak out scenario to show the last stand at Yarant and the subsequent break out which Corax and the Raptors had a big hand in.

[Leman Russ SW]

If it is Alpha Legion too I think it is more likely to be Alaxxes. So maybe Lord Gunn or Bjorn as a character. Plus it happens just after Chondax so will fit the time period better.