Triple Heldrakes - Competitive or No?

[SyNidus]

The title says it all:

 

Are triple Heldrakes capable of forming part of a competitive chaos army?

[Commissar K.]

I'd say yes for Khorne, assumming you go a route that includes CSM and Khorne Daemons. As it basically allows the force to be there in the first turn and means you have some cover support for double Daemon princes while the Bloodletters do the lifting.

More on that subject here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343415-recreating-khorne-daemonkin-for-8th-edition/?p=5002917

Edited February 6, 2018 by Commissar K.

[Panzer]

Considering how many people own three of them due the last editions and that none of the top lists at the LVO had one in them, not to speak of three, I'd say without knowing better, no it's not particularly competetive.

[Khornestar]

IMO they’re a 1 trick pony (2 tops) in that they can charge flyers and charge turn 1. Neither their shooting nor their melee attacks are particularly strong, though I took baleflamers every time I used them. Meh. Love the unit, but I think it could use a little tweaking. They take up a lot of room with their flyer base, so that could be good or bad depending on how it’s utilized. Like everything, going first drastically increases their usefulness. Edited February 6, 2018 by Juggernut

[Mekhitar]

I've had no success with them.  They will absolutely make a turn 1 charge, but they have no punch.  Their attacks are only -1 AP at s7 and d3 damage is nothing to write home about (compare to a flat 3dmg for the defiler and the helbrute, which actually makes them good at crunching vehicles).  The baleflamer suffers from the same problem as all flamers, which is d6 is really nothing to write home about (at 2d6, a la the immolator, it starts to look appealing - maybe), and the autocannnon is even worse: your drakes want to be moving, which means it starts out hitting on a 5.

So what does the drake target?  Infantry? not with only 4 attacks hitting on 3s (numbers that rapidly degrade as it takes wounds - and it WILL take wounds, since you are throwing it at the enemy's face).  Brutes and defilers both can bump their attacks up to 7, and each of those 7 is more powerful than the drake's attacks.

The one advantage of the drake is speed, but since it is a flier, it cannot claim or even contest the objectives it might bop over to.  At best, you can charge it into an enemy unit to lock that unit up - but it will promptly fall back, leaving you right in the middle of the enemy army and all the anti tank (esp short range, like melta) they might want to bring to bear.  I have rarely had a drake survive t1, and then, it had <3 wounds left.  Sure, taking 3 drakes will mean they won't all die, but they also don't have the bite to do much either - and that is a lot of points to spend on a distraction unit that doesn't even have something it is good at killing.

And even though you will get that t1 charge, a savvy enemy will deploy his screen close enough to the tanks that you won't be able to land the drake (with that large base) in contact on t1 with anything important that you want to lock down, leaving it capable of making the charge with nothing good to charge. [sigh]

I absolutely adore my drake and it was a royal pain to paint, but I've just straight up stopped taking it because it has never made any return for me. :(

[hushrong]

I have to echo Commissar K. and Juggernut and their ideas.

 

I seriously think a heldrake is a decent harassment unit with its movement, its flamer, and its claws. it can move up, charge a tank, and keep it from shooting at something else in my army. It can get up to a squad and spit hot fire. Best of all it can tangle with flyers.

 

However, I just never feel like it does an outstanding job at this in this edition.

[Arachnofiend]

The most useful thing a heldrake has ever done for me in 8th is explode. It's a toothless beast, the ability to chase down a flier just isn't that valuable when you can't do any damage to it.

[SyNidus]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I guess i'm going to have to stow the dream of tri-turkey death.

[adreal]

When a hellforged scorpius does much the same damaged in the shooting phase as a bale drake, but is harder to hit and easier to support, for a marginal points increase, I would say that no, heldrakes are not that competitive

 

They can be fun though

[Trevak Dal]

Maybe if you send them after a single target it might be more effective? But then you run into issues with overkill...

[Commissar K.]

IMO they’re a 1 trick pony (2 tops) in that they can charge flyers and charge turn 1. Neither their shooting nor their melee attacks are particularly strong, though I took baleflamers every time I used them. Meh. Love the unit, but I think it could use a little tweaking. They take up a lot of room with their flyer base, so that could be good or bad depending on how it’s utilized. Like everything, going first drastically increases their usefulness.

Can only confirm this. However with enough ponies you will be able to archieve that one trick very well.

 

But other as a whole deep strike shebang I wouldn't thake them. Even with the deep strike trick obtained with Chaos Daemons there are indeed more than sufficient reasons to exclude them altogether because deep striking bubble wrap units should work much better for Tzeentch and Slaanesh orientated armies. Even Nurgle will like that some some extend but I just feel that by comparison the Plaguebearers do less as the Poxwalkers do and thus the latter is what is see as commonly better.

 

In general there isn't too much wrong with the Heldrake but it just doesn't do too much either which at high comp games mean you don't really want it most of the time.

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

Maybe if you send them after a single target it might be more effective? But then you run into issues with overkill...

I was thinking along these lines as I was reading. The problem I mainly see is getting past the bubble-wrap. Most characters are put in the midst of as many units that can benefit from their auras, which makes getting that base, as mentioned, tough. It really is all about that base, that base, that base.