Centurions: How to make them work?

[Aothaine]

Hey everyone,

 

Just curious if anyone had any ideas on how to make these work. I love the models and want to field as many as I can but I am having difficulties finding the right place for them.

 

What do you think the best chapter tactic would be for these guys? 

 

Should they have a delivery system or foot slog up the field?

 

What do you think the best load out is for these lumbering giants?

 

 

[SydonianDragoon404]

I was thinking about getting some Assault centurions before their point cost went up with Chapter Approved's hurricane bolter point increase. They were already a very risky unit and many thought to be a rather lackluster unit for the points cost, but Chapter Approved made that an easy decision for me. I still want to try them in a casual game but those are getting harder and harder to find. 

[Aothaine]

I was thinking about getting some Assault centurions before their point cost went up with Chapter Approved's hurricane bolter point increase. They were already a very risky unit and many thought to be a rather lackluster unit for the points cost, but Chapter Approved made that an easy decision for me. I still want to try them in a casual game but those are getting harder and harder to find. 

 

I feel ya. But the models just look so good. I really want to find a way to use them. I was thinking maybe Salamanders would be good. As they would get a free re-roll to hit and wound which is no laughing matter. From what I've read that is for every unit that fires right? If so that is a lot of free command points.

[Joukernaut]

I would say either long range dakka with an apothecary and ancient, grave cannons and hide behind LOS or assault in a raider or a raven.

just footslogging doesn't even work in very casual games, anyone can ty them up and stop them from shooting.

ultramarines chapter tactics does wonders for this.

I find the assault cents amazing in clearing hordes with their flamers and hurricane bolters if they manage to get in range.

[Vel'Cona]

Assault Centurions desperately need transport due to the lack of native DS or other deployment shenanigans.  Since they lack an Invul save, it could also help to have a character around to "distract" from them, though smart opponents will still aim for your Cents first.  In either case, I'd agree UM tactics are good to keep them from getting tarpitted due to their limited number of attacks, though a Land Raider (or other appropriate FW option, I suppose) should be considered mandatory.  White Scars tactics can work too, as this would give them more mobility and tarpit protection (albeit in a different direction, counter assault).  In either case, I consider Assault Centurions strictly inferior to Terminators (of all stripes) so you're taking a hit to use them no matter what you do.

 

Devastator Centurions are a little easier to employ since their firepower is harder to deny, though as Joukernaut said they're quite easy to tarpit.  Supporting characters are key, as are appropriate CTs.  The biggest issue I have with Dev Centurions is the implicit cost in setting them up for killing hard targets, as 2 LC and CMLs are incredibly expensive.  One school of thought is to keep them cheap with 2 HB/Hurricane Bolter setup, though the limited range is troublesome here and comes back to the issue of needing transports; if you decide to go this route, I'd consider UM CTs a requirement since they'll be even easier to tarpit due to the reduced range.

[chapter master 454]

The big thing is that the assault centurions are a very odd unit. When deployed, their lack of numbers and number of attacks means they aren't a blender unit but instead a tank shredding nightmare for anyone that gets in their way. The siege drills are terrifying melee weapons but the big killer is their numbers, when all is said and one, the largest you can really deploy of these guys is 3-4 as you NEED a transport for them as their 4" movement is just adorably laughable. However once you get them in range, depending on what you want to blow up, you are about to detonate a target. For infantry shredding, Flamers + Hurricanes will without question remove that infantry block or so gravely wound it the resulting battleshock will get rid of the rest. Remember, at 7", these guys will hose out 6D6 auto-hits + fire 36 shots of boltgun pain. Even against heavier targets you are going to plink a few wounds. In contrast, slapping meltaguns on them does reduce their effect against infantry but at that point you could look at lord of wars casually and wonder how many licks it takes to get to the center of a baneblade!

 

In contrast, Devastator centurions are able to slog it on foot. This is because their armaments don't have to be swung at the enemy, only swung when needing to turn to find new targets. Centurions themselves are incredibly durable, T5 with 3 wounds and a 2+ save makes them pretty hard to shift and return fire against targets is pretty sore due to their sergeant having the cover negation bonus. The choice of weapons is varied and to be honest, I can see the value in all options however a big loss is their missiles are no longer just chest mounted missile launchers. This now means your primary denotes the secondary unless points become an issue, Heavy Bolters get paired with Hurricanes while lascannons pair with missile launchers and grav can pair with ether, depends on what you hate more (I personally find hurricanes better with grav, cheaper and helps deal with lighter infantry).

 

The biggest issue with centurions however is cost. Assault Centurions are 53 points a pop and devastators are 80. That is a massive 27 point hike for devastators who arguably have less going for them by themselves compared to Assaults. The offset however is transports are needed for Assaults while Devs can walk (due to range) but it doesn't help that in the long run, in my experience having the transport (in my case a stormraven) has often been just as valuable as the centurions themselves and thus synergises with them greatly (instead of one unit just being there so the other doesn't fall flat and may as well of been tax) while devastator centurions struggle to keep their points reasonable.

Even a low cost Devastator Centurion will run you a hefty bill of 110 points PER MODEL! Yes, they don't even get to discount with a twin-heavy bolter for saving 3 points because they are stated as having 2 heavy bolters separately. At 110 per models a standard squad runs you 330 points and from there it can get stupidly expensive. Meanwhile, assault centurions can keep their points far lower and reasonable at 81. that is 1 point cheaper than a naked dev centurion. (for 2 flamers and a hurricane boltgun, you could go cheaper with the assault launchers but...kek). This means a standard squad of assaults run you 243 points which helps keep them going as they trim a few points to allow you to take the transports they need to carry them.

 

In terms of how good they are however: Worth it. While I would prefer vanguards coming out of my stormraven (fixing that soon!) they are without a doubt a terrifying unit to have blow up a section of army. If they charge a block of infantry, they initial burst will detonate the enemy to nothing but ash while they charge will see to any tougher targets getting knocked on their rear!

Devastator Centurions are costly but so far, I find them extremely effective. While mine are grav-turions, they have had a reasonable run of success. Both in the sense that they can eat a fair few hits while also dishing out serious damage. I would wager also that the twin-heavy boltgun versions are pretty decent infantry blenders while the twin las with missiles would just remove tanks just by looking at them.

 

Their speed can be an issue but to be honest, they can put pressure on and it takes a disciplined opponent to ignore assault centurions that keep wading towards them after their initial impact (because afterwards, it would take turn 3 to get on the transport and turn 4 to then get out and do it again and by then, turn 4 that transport should of been toast or you were just flat out tabling the opponent!) however dev centurions have a solid threat risk at all stages and needing to deal 3 wounds to each can be difficult. Just remember to deal with wounds correctly and keep an eye on it to punish mis-ordered weapon salvos. Remember, normal wounds don't wrap round so if you have a centurion on one wound and they slam a lascannon into the squad and not notice, you could punish the misuse of a weapon that on average when it gets through a centurion kills one.

 

Also, don't afraid to just put them out there. 2+ save means they are marines in cover and while they can become 1+ save it doesn't really benefit them to stand still as they should be moving around to keep lines of sight open and pressure the opponent.

[Aothaine]

Yeah I was also thinking about using the Raven Guard for these bad boys as well. You can use the stratagem to drop two units of them right up close. Just have to hope you have first turn. :p

 

But it could be decent strat for Raven Guard. Strategem two units of anti-infantry Centurians then deep strike in the main hammer assault squad with the HQ to charge the really important parts?

 

I also like the idea of Salamander Dev Cents with the re-rolls. It is a sad day that you can't take these guys with Dark Angels to get that Free re-roll 1s if you don't move.

 

Gonna look into the dex some more tonight to see more synergies. But from what I can tell they work pretty well with most chapter tactics.

[justicarius6]

With the new solid rumours of the necron codex and the reduction in cost of heavy destroyers the points cost of Centurion devastators is an absolute running joke. Just compare the statlines:-

 

Heavy Destroyer:- M10, WS/BS 3, S4, T5, W3, A2, LD10, SV 3+

(fly, no penalty for moving and firing heavies, re-roll wounds of 1, re-animation)

 

30pts.

 

Centurion Devastator: M4, WS/BS 3, S5, T5, W3, A2(3), LD7(8), SV 2+

(ATSKNF, no penalty for moving and firing heavies, no cover bonus to enemies while sarge is alive, combat squads)

 

80pts.

 

o.O

[9x19 Parabellum]

Yep. Hell even before Necrons came out comparing Centurions to anything is a joke.  Compare the 80 pt dev centurion to the 25 pt. Bike.  55 points for +1 wound and +1 AS, while losing 10" of movement. Are you out of your frekking mind?

 

I know this thread is a month old, but I just don't realistically see a way to make Centurions work with respect to any kind of points efficiency.  Assault Cents need a Land Raider (+350 pt tax) and Dev Cents are 25-30 points overpriced each.

[zero88]

Raven Guard Assault Cents are about the only worthwhile ones IMO, and that's because you can negate the need for a delivery system. The only issue now is that Aggressors perform a similar role to dakka Assault Cents, and they do it cheaper, better, and the models look WAY better.

[Ishagu]

Drop the Centurion to 30 points base and they'll be fixed.

 

It's insanity to charge people 110+ points per model for a 3 wound, t5 guy who has horrific movement.

[Dracos]

I don’t know why I think this but .... I wonder if there is a concern that Cent-Devs would get snapped up by all us new Primaris Captains if they became reasonably point priced ??? Concerned because they have something in the works that fills that role for Primaris ???

[justicarius6]

It's a sad state of affairs that CSM only unique unit is practically unplayable right now. A drop in points for the base unit is sorely needed but also some way to transport them that isn't a 350pt bullseye. I mean they've a movement of 4" for crying out loud....

[Captain Idaho]

If only they could get into Drop Pods (Which need a points drop too).

 

I'd like the Centurion Devastators to be cheaper as they're outrageous in price right now. 3 for 330pts?

[Aothaine]

They are a bit over priced but they fit really well into certain lists. Raven Guard coming to the front of my mind. The problem is filling out the rest of the list. They are not competitive in anyway. I love the way they look. But fielding them is hard to justify unless you just want the "Cool" factor. I've made a Raven Guard list that uses them pretty well. I'll post it later tonight if I get the opportunity. 

 

The list many uses a bunch of scouts to make up for the lost bodies and attempt to put pressure on objectives. I would still rather take Predators in most cases though as they fulfil the same role but lose the Infantry rule.

[Race Bannon]

Bump the list, show the pics!

[Aothaine]

Bump the list, show the pics!

 

Don't have pics yet. I'm still really up in the air with which army I want to play. When I dipped into Raven Guard I really liked the idea of the Rift Stalkers. But they are primaris only. So Cents don't really fit there fluff wise. I might end up painting up a few in Salamanders' colors though or maybe Imperial Fists.

[Dracos]

I could totally see Centurians in a Primaris army. Stats match and unless your hung up on “official” fluff they just look like they belong with Primaris Marines.

 

Listen to the Shadows ..... come to the Ravenspire ;)

[Race Bannon]

Listen to the Shadows ..... come to the Ravenspire ;)

Corax approves.

[Aothaine]

Lol! I'm thinking about it. I agree that Centurions do kind of fit into the whole Primaris Line. But it would be a tough argument to make if I'm painting them up as Rift Stalkers. They would look amazing. But it would still be difficult to convince fluffheads that it was legit.

 

I'll give it a good think through. 

 

Edit: These models would be dead sexy in Rift Stalker colors.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Aothaine

[Ishagu]

They definitely fit Primaris, and are even bigger than a Gravis Captain.

 

I'd love to take mine again, when GW knocks 50 points off each model!

[9x19 Parabellum]

They definitely fit Primaris, and are even bigger than a Gravis Captain.

 

I'd love to take mine again, when GW knocks 50 points off each model!

 

That's a bit much to ask/hope for.  30 pt. Centurion is way too cheap.

[Ishagu]

Not with the weapons. Remember they are slow moving, delicate guys with no invul.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Not with the weapons. Remember they are slow moving, delicate guys with no invul.

 

They are T5, 3 wounds 2+ and can benefit from cover (and the shooty ones should). And they also have Omniscope and Decimator Protocols.

You're telling me that's all worth only 4 pts more than a Terminator chassis? (trading off the 5++)

That seems a little too generous to me.

[Aothaine]

 

Not with the weapons. Remember they are slow moving, delicate guys with no invul.

 

They are T5, 3 wounds 2+ and can benefit from cover (and the shooty ones should). And they also have Omniscope and Decimator Protocols.

You're telling me that's all worth only 4 pts more than a Terminator chassis? (trading off the 5++)

That seems a little too generous to me.

 

 

This is true. But they don't have the same impact as other platforms for heavy weapons. I love them regardless. They are really expensive to field more than one unit of which causes me problems because I like to build my lists in 3s. 3 HQs, 3 or 6 troops, etc... have three units of bare bones Centurions is around 900-1200 points without the HQs if I remember correctly.