Wait...showdown between Warhawk and Phoenician confirmed?

[bluntblade]

Perhaps a shard of the one that indirectly gave Mortarion his look?

[Mellow]

A C’Tan gave Mortarion his look?

[Lord_Caerolion]

Mortarion looks like the Grim Reaper, who is apparently a race-memory of the Nightbringer, according to the Oldcron book.

[Indefragable]

I recall an excellent samurai film where the final duel was a single blow

Hidden Content

https://youtu.be/-NNaj5YUxco

[Moonreaper666]

 

I've heard rumor that Khan may meet his end at Terra, at the hands of Mortarion no less. I'm not sure if there's any credence to that since the Siege itself is probably a year or two off anyhow but reading this topic made me think back to that.

That dream comes up at least twice in Scars. Towards the end when Yesugei and the Khan speak, it’s:

 

“I saw you fighting. A spectre of the underworld, on a world of ruins.’

‘You saw Mortarion.’

Yesugei looked uneasy. ‘I do not know. In my dreams, you were slain.”

 

But earlier in the book when Yesugei is alone it’s described as:

“...the Khan in the land of the dead, duelling with some vast creature of null-light, alone under a starless sky,” with an admonition that his dream-visions were not to be taken literally.

 

That makes it sound more like the Webway. And while BL could decide to kill him, it’d change the victory at the Lion’s Gate spaceport, change the nature of the White Scars in subsequent millennia, and also affect the scene in which Dorn returns with the Emperor’s body. I don’t think it likely.

What if Mortarion duels Khan again inside the Webway during the Great Scouring?

 

That would fit in with Yesugei's vision

 

 

I hope they permanently kill another of the Loyalist Primarchs to balance out the death of Alpharius

 

In the old lore, two Loyalist and two Traitor Primarchs are dead

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

I've heard rumor that Khan may meet his end at Terra, at the hands of Mortarion no less. I'm not sure if there's any credence to that since the Siege itself is probably a year or two off anyhow but reading this topic made me think back to that.

That dream comes up at least twice in Scars. Towards the end when Yesugei and the Khan speak, it’s:

 

“I saw you fighting. A spectre of the underworld, on a world of ruins.’

‘You saw Mortarion.’

Yesugei looked uneasy. ‘I do not know. In my dreams, you were slain.”

 

But earlier in the book when Yesugei is alone it’s described as:

“...the Khan in the land of the dead, duelling with some vast creature of null-light, alone under a starless sky,” with an admonition that his dream-visions were not to be taken literally.

 

That makes it sound more like the Webway. And while BL could decide to kill him, it’d change the victory at the Lion’s Gate spaceport, change the nature of the White Scars in subsequent millennia, and also affect the scene in which Dorn returns with the Emperor’s body. I don’t think it likely.

What if Mortarion duels Khan again inside the Webway during the Great Scouring?

 

That would fit in with Yesugei's vision

 

 

I hope they permanently kill another of the Loyalist Primarchs to balance out the death of Alpharius

 

In the old lore, two Loyalist and two Traitor Primarchs are dead

 

 

Stahp. Please. Just Stahp. 

[bluntblade]

Just take a moment to consider that two dead Loyalists thing.

[Indefragable]

Well the Blood Gorgons killed 11 Loyalist Primarchs so what’s left for the rest of chaos?

[Kelborn]

Who was the second dead traitor primarch in the old lore?? Oo

[Indefragable]

Who was the second dead traitor primarch in the old lore?? Oo

 

Traitors:

Horus: death by Emperor

 

Curze: Death by Officio Assassinorum Assassin (foresaw it happening and allowed it as part of his own twisted sense of justice)

 

Loyalists:

Ferrus Manus: lost his head fighting (daemonically possessed) Fulgrim

 

Sanguinius: Death by Horus

 

Score is tied at 2-2 at the half, folks.

 

[TheRealMcCagh]

Wasn't older lore kind of vague about Curze and much more definite about Dorn?

[Kelborn]

My fault, forgot about Curze.

 

Well, to even the odds, Dorn would probably the next to die as his death was (at least) more certain than that of his brothers.

 

All (except Lion and Roboute) of the remaining are MIA, he's KIA, as far as I remember.

[no I'm alpharius]

Curze - IA had that they never saw the killing blow and iirc never found the body, though M'Shen looted it. 

[carlisimo]

No, Curze’s death goes back at least as far as the 2nd edition Chaos codex, which is where his “death is nothing compared to vindication” line was written. It’s not ambiguous.

 

I don’t know if Dorn’s “death” was described prior to the Index Astartes article during 3rd or 4th ed., but there the Fists “recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn” and now his “engraved skeletal hand” is a chapter relic. That does leave room for him to still be alive.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The Talon of Horus was said to have killed two Primarchs in the novel with the same name, which does hint that Dorn is dead too.

[Marshal Loss]

The Talon of Horus was said to have killed two Primarchs in the novel with the same name, which does hint that Dorn is dead too.

 

That is a reference to the clone of Horus killed by Abaddon, not to Dorn. Assuming they don't retcon Dorn's death, he is killed while boarding the Sword of Sacrilege, dragged down by numberless hordes, not killed in single combat.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

The Talon of Horus was said to have killed two Primarchs in the novel with the same name, which does hint that Dorn is dead too.

That is a reference to the clone of Horus killed by Abaddon, not to Dorn. Assuming they don't retcon Dorn's death, he is killed while boarding the Sword of Sacrilege, dragged down by numberless hordes, not killed in single combat.

That begs the question what kinds of Chaos monstrosities are responsible for killing Dorn?

 

 

I am beginning to think Fabius Bile's Enhanced Men ripped apart the Praetorian

 

 

(If his Lieutenant did not disobey his orders, Corax would have been killed by the New Men himself!)

[Marshal Loss]

We only have a handful of sentences describing his death. There is nothing at all to indicate Fabius Bile had anything to do with it.

[Kelborn]

No, Curze’s death goes back at least as far as the 2nd edition Chaos codex, which is where his “death is nothing compared to vindication” line was written. It’s not ambiguous.

 

I don’t know if Dorn’s “death” was described prior to the Index Astartes article during 3rd or 4th ed., but there the Fists “recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn” and now his “engraved skeletal hand” is a chapter relic. That does leave room for him to still be alive.

 

Sure but this is the closest of a dead Primarch we got until now.

No one expected Guiliman to return, true. I'm not saying that Dorn is definitely dead. He could still hang around somewhere.

But his death, orchestrated by the Alpha Legion could be a thing, too.

 

I'm still a fan of Omegon doing it, leaving Dorn shocked by saying: I am Alpharius. ;)

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

 

The Talon of Horus was said to have killed two Primarchs in the novel with the same name, which does hint that Dorn is dead too.

That is a reference to the clone of Horus killed by Abaddon, not to Dorn. Assuming they don't retcon Dorn's death, he is killed while boarding the Sword of Sacrilege, dragged down by numberless hordes, not killed in single combat.

That begs the question what kinds of Chaos monstrosities are responsible for killing Dorn?

 

 

I am beginning to think Fabius Bile's Enhanced Men ripped apart the Praetorian

 

 

(If his Lieutenant did not disobey his orders, Corax would have been killed by the New Men himself!)

 

 

As Marshal Loss says, there's nothing to indicate that Fabius was involved at all. It's far more likely, given it was a Black Legion ship, that it was just Black Legion troops and weight of numbers. Even a Primarch dies if you stab him enough times.

 

And in regards to the Talon, I stand corrected. It's referred to as the weapon that killed "a" Primarch (so Sanguinius) and the Emperor, I'd somehow remembered it as two.

[Roomsky]

While likely no longer accurate, Dorn's skeleton was in full display way back in Space Marine. At the very least, the original intent is that he was definitely dead.

[Fire Golem]

 

 

 

The Talon of Horus was said to have killed two Primarchs in the novel with the same name, which does hint that Dorn is dead too.

 

That is a reference to the clone of Horus killed by Abaddon, not to Dorn. Assuming they don't retcon Dorn's death, he is killed while boarding the Sword of Sacrilege, dragged down by numberless hordes, not killed in single combat.

That begs the question what kinds of Chaos monstrosities are responsible for killing Dorn?

I am beginning to think Fabius Bile's Enhanced Men ripped apart the Praetorian

(If his Lieutenant did not disobey his orders, Corax would have been killed by the New Men himself!)

 

As Marshal Loss says, there's nothing to indicate that Fabius was involved at all. It's far more likely, given it was a Black Legion ship, that it was just Black Legion troops and weight of numbers. Even a Primarch dies if you stab him enough times.

 

And in regards to the Talon, I stand corrected. It's referred to as the weapon that killed "a" Primarch (so Sanguinius) and the Emperor, I'd somehow remembered it as two.

It does say 2, I read that bit earlier. The line is ‘The Warmaster wields a blade that rends reality apart, and bears the claw that killed two Primarchs...’ but as Marshall Loss says, the 2 are Sanguinius, and the clone of Horus.

[mc warhammer]

While likely no longer accurate, Dorn's skeleton was in full display way back in Space Marine. At the very least, the original intent is that he was definitely dead.

that’s my preference

[The_Stray_Idea]

I think this is an intriguing pairing. Given that the Primachs power levels fluctuate novel to novel I think it’s worth looking at the upcoming duel in a slightly different way.

 

I haven’t seen anyone look at the serpentine body of Fulgrim. When you look at how snakes strike it’s short bursts of incredible speed. I don’t think Fulgrim can match Khârn for speed in the traditional sense. With that in mind Khârn will have to use his speed for positioning as I think Fulgrim will be dangerously quick in a confined space.

 

With regards to weapons on choice. Theoretically Fulgrim is a quadruple threat, however all blades can’t move freely at all times so you have to ask how often will he be able to put all 4 weapons to use.

 

I don’t think we will see either curb stomp the other. I hope it’s a fast paced read, showing Kharns speed repositioning and reacting to threats trying to trap Fulgrim in a favourable position and when blades are being swung we are given the impression that each of fulgrims blows will be designed to maim and kill.

 

My 2 pence.

 

Stray

[Mellow]

Of course 4 arms can move at the same time. Most people can move their arms and legs at the same time. This would be no different except the “the Warp did it”

 

I’m still hoping that Dorn is in the Throne Room.

 

“Father, are you familiar with the phrase 'you are what you eat'? Seeing how you act like an ever-growing pile of screaming psychic children."

 

Love that guy.