DuskRaider Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 You can't think of what the Daemon Primarchs can do in a physical sense. Their bodies don't technically exist, it's merely a physic manifestation of what they will it to be. Fulgrim could look like a tuna fish sandwich and be no less dangerous nor bound to any physical restraints. Their given a characteristic form to make sure they're easily recognizable, that's all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 This isn’t a thread for debating the philosophical nature of the Warp and how a Warp made body can/cannot/does/does not interact with the material realm. If he was a tuna fish sandwich he would do what all tuna fish sandwich styled Daemons do and do “evil whispering” to make people go mad. As it is he has 4 sword arms so that’s going to be difficult to block with one. We also know that Warp entities are damaged by old style weapons more than just guns so their bodies must be “there” in some sense of the word otherwise they would be invulnerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Cool, thanks for missing the point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 We only have a handful of sentences describing his death. There is nothing at all to indicate Fabius Bile had anything to do with it. Wasn't he fighting against a mix of BL and WE? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 This isn’t a thread for debating the philosophical nature of the Warp and how a Warp made body can/cannot/does/does not interact with the material realm. If he was a tuna fish sandwich he would do what all tuna fish sandwich styled Daemons do and do “evil whispering” to make people go mad. As it is he has 4 sword arms so that’s going to be difficult to block with one. We also know that Warp entities are damaged by old style weapons more than just guns so their bodies must be “there” in some sense of the word otherwise they would be invulnerable. Nor is it a threat about Guilliman. But a few frater's and myself have indulged in what we thought what was at least tangentially relevant conversation, and it seems we have done so without any negative effects being felt. Mellow out, man, it's Friday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I wasn’t being serious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I can imagine that conversation afterwards: “Wait...brother...you couldn’t defeat a tuna fish sandwich in singular combat?” “Brothers...you don’t understand...this wasn’t just any tuna fish sandwich...” Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonreaper666 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlisimo Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? Ferrus Manus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5012994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? According to Codex:Custodes, Valdor survived the Siege but vanished afterwards, as have most Captain-Generals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? should “balancing” be a thing ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 No, Curze’s death goes back at least as far as the 2nd edition Chaos codex, which is where his “death is nothing compared to vindication” line was written. It’s not ambiguous. I don’t know if Dorn’s “death” was described prior to the Index Astartes article during 3rd or 4th ed., but there the Fists “recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn” and now his “engraved skeletal hand” is a chapter relic. That does leave room for him to still be alive. My memory is there's always been an ambiguity in that the recordings cut out at the moment of the blow. The line in IA immediately after "Death is nothing compared to vindication" is ... Then the vid-log blurs for a fraction of a second as M'Shen leaps forwards and the last image of the recording is of dark, staring eye brimming with madness, above a lipless smile before the recording inexplicably shorts out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 We literally have in writing an account of Kurze getting his head lopped off and M'Shen attempting to make it back to her ship. Talos Valcoran gets his moniker "Soul Hunter" because he goes against Kurze's wishes to let M'Shen escape because he wishes to avenge the Primarch while the other Legionnaires intended to let her leave until they realized she stole various artifacts as well. Yes, Curze is dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? Alpharius is half a Primarch, so until Omegon eats it the score is still tied :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? should “balancing” be a thing ? No, because war isn't fair. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonreaper666 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? should “balancing” be a thing ? No, because war isn't fair. If war wasn't fair the Navigator Houses would have gone full Traitor (which they didn't because of plot) Chaos would just bring back the Iron Men and Castigator Titans An'ggrath, Skarbrand, Skulltaker and the Changeling would be there in the Heresy, wrecking havoc The various Chaos Xenos of the Calisix Sector would flock to the banner of Horus There was a symbolism in the Old Lore with the deaths of two Loyalist and two Traitor Primarchs (Ferrus, Sang, Horus and Kurze) I hope they retcon it to have Valdor die in the Siege, adds more tension between Russ, Lion, Guilliman and Dorn (And balances out the death of Alpharius in a symbolic way) Arkhan Land should die in the retaking of Mars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 There was a symbolism in the Old Lore with the deaths of two Loyalist and two Traitor Primarchs (Ferrus, Sang, Horus and Kurze) I hope they retcon it to have Valdor die in the Siege, adds more tension between Russ, Lion, Guilliman and Dorn (And balances out the death of Alpharius in a symbolic way) Arkhan Land should die in the retaking of Mars There is no such symbolism, Kurze dies during the Scouring (and I don't think Ferrus died in-heresy in the original tellings). If Kurze counts, then so does Dorn, maybe Omegon, and Guilliman was effectively dead as well. If you want balance, Alpharius' death is balanced by the introduction of Omegon. I think Land disappears into an archology post-heresy and is never seen again, but that could easily be retconned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I would really appreciate if you wouldn't quote me, Moonreaper. We've talked before. You know I'm hardly going to be favourable towards your theories. If war wasn't fair the Navigator Houses would have gone full Traitor (which they didn't because of plot) They didn't because the only reason they've had for defecting was one of the best kept secrets of the Imperium. And don't talk about the plot to me. Considering your pro-Chaos bias, it is hypocritical to say the least. Chaos would just bring back the Iron Men and Castigator Titans From where, exactly? As far as we can tell, the only surviving STC for Iron Man will not be uncovered for roughly next ten thousand years, and Castigator is a unique prototype. The various Chaos Xenos of the Calisix Sector would flock to the banner of Horus Considering those various Chaos Xenos failed to conquer Calixis Sector, I sincerely doubt they would be relevant in the least in pan-galactic conflict involving Primarchs and Space Marine Legions. There was a symbolism in the Old Lore with the deaths of two Loyalist and two Traitor Primarchs(Ferrus, Sang, Horus and Kurze) And it would be symbolism of what exactly? I hope they retcon it to have Valdor die in the Siege, adds more tension between Russ, Lion, Guilliman and Dorn(And balances out the death of Alpharius in a symbolic way) Considering that we are literally few weeks after release of Codex that outright says that he survived the Heresy, I would hope not. It would be quite a failure on the part of the editorial department, to publish two wildly contradictory records so close. Arkhan Land should die in the retaking of Mars Land should die period, he is obnoxious. Also, unless we are going to see major retcons, retaking of Mars is not going to happen in the Heresy series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Land has no reason to die in battle. The old fluff of him vanishing on expedition makes more sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? should “balancing” be a thing ? No, because war isn't fair. 100% i'm going to guess the need to "balance" is a hangover of gaming days so all sides felt equal? Land should die period, he is obnoxious. death for personality. and you say you don't like grimdark Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5013823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Land should die period, he is obnoxious. death for personality. and you say you don't like grimdark No, I don't like stupidity. The two are not the same. I have always argued that there is a point where you cross from darkness to nonsense. We should not indulge in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5014343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Land should die period, he is obnoxious. death for personality. and you say you don't like grimdark No, I don't like stupidity. The two are not the same. I have always argued that there is a point where you cross from darkness to nonsense. We should not indulge in it. man...i know what you- i mean, it was a jo- never mind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5014852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarth151 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Land should die period, he is obnoxious. death for personality. and you say you don't like grimdark No, I don't like stupidity. The two are not the same. I have always argued that there is a point where you cross from darkness to nonsense. We should not indulge in it. man...i know what you- i mean, it was a jo- never mind Honestly, it's kinda hard to tell through text alone. This is the internet. You will find thousands of people of people saying the most ridiculous stuff completely straight. Think nothing of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5014921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Land should die period, he is obnoxious. death for personality. and you say you don't like grimdark No, I don't like stupidity. The two are not the same. I have always argued that there is a point where you cross from darkness to nonsense. We should not indulge in it. man...i know what you- i mean, it was a jo- never mind Honestly, it's kinda hard to tell through text alone. This is the internet. You will find thousands of people of people saying the most ridiculous stuff completely straight. Think nothing of it. i should make use of this "emoji" people speak of Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5014944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 What if Khan, Valdor and Fulgrim kill each other on Terra? Is that plausible? Which Loyalist Primarch, besides Sang, should die to balance out the death of Alpharius? should “balancing” be a thing ? No, because war isn't fair. If war wasn't fair the Navigator Houses would have gone full Traitor (which they didn't because of plot) Chaos would just bring back the Iron Men and Castigator Titans An'ggrath, Skarbrand, Skulltaker and the Changeling would be there in the Heresy, wrecking havoc The various Chaos Xenos of the Calisix Sector would flock to the banner of Horus There was a symbolism in the Old Lore with the deaths of two Loyalist and two Traitor Primarchs (Ferrus, Sang, Horus and Kurze) I hope they retcon it to have Valdor die in the Siege, adds more tension between Russ, Lion, Guilliman and Dorn (And balances out the death of Alpharius in a symbolic way) Arkhan Land should die in the retaking of Mars Dude, the hell are you talking about? "If war isn't fair, then Chaos should just roflstomp everybody"? How do you know Skarbrand, Ang'grath, Skulltaker and the Changling weren't active during the Heresy? You're assuming that they'll be instant game-winners due to your bias. You assume Chaos has access to the Iron Men based on absolutely nothing, and that Horus and the other traitor Primarchs would be accepting of xenos assistance. They could barely even tolerate each other! They aren't going to accept Xenos help, and the assistance of Xenos who failed to take over a single Sector isn't going to exactly be a massive help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344194-waitshowdown-between-warhawk-and-phoenician-confirmed/page/6/#findComment-5015550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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