Wait...showdown between Warhawk and Phoenician confirmed?

[Tarvek Val]

To add on to your point, Lord_Caerolion, the Men of Iron were originally loyal to humanity. They were not constructs of Chaos, but rather human constructs that fought for the interstellar human empire present during the Dark Age of Technology. During this time, countless horrific weapons of mass destruction were created; everything from sun-sniffers, omniphages, mechanivores, and the Men of Iron themselves. These sentient weapons caused galactic destruction and carnage, and almost resulted in the utter destruction of mankind. That said, these weapons were designed by and for humans. It is implied in stories such as First and Only that the Men of Iron became corrupted by Chaos over long, long periods of exposure to the warp, just as Imperial Battle Titans that followed Horus and his rebels became daemon engines over time. Thus, Chaos couldn't simply "bring back the Iron Men." First of all, they were mostly destroyed during the Dark Age of Technology, and secondly, they were never Chaos soldiers to begin with...

[Lord_Caerolion]

Plus, they're meant to be literally mythical figures. Other than their appearance in the Gaunts Ghosts book, the Iron Men have been confined to legends, rather than history. Even the Mechanicus doesn't really seem to understand what they were, whether they were actual beings, or metaphors for the beginning of the Dark Age of Technology, when AI first became Abominable Intelligence, rather than Artificial Intelligence. It's the equivalent of asking why our current soldiers don't track down Excalibur to use in battle, or why we don't recruit armies of Bigfoot to fight for us. To Horus, the Men of Iron were the same sort of thing, figures from history so far back that they've become indistinguishable from metaphor and myth.

[MrDarth151]

 

How do you know Skarbrand, Ang'grath, Skulltaker and the Changling weren't active during the Heresy?

 

Actually, on that point: We know for a fact that An'ggrath was active during Great Crusade. Khorne sends him after Lorgar in Aurelian.

 

Suffice to say, it didn't work out.

 

So, there is that.

[Tarvek Val]

 

 

How do you know Skarbrand, Ang'grath, Skulltaker and the Changling weren't active during the Heresy?

 

Actually, on that point: We know for a fact that An'ggrath was active during Great Crusade. Khorne sends him after Lorgar in Aurelian.

 

Suffice to say, it didn't work out.

 

So, there is that.

 

 

I had quite forgotten about that story, thank you for the reminder. That said, there are countless entities, heroes, and beings that could have turned the tide of the war, but didn't. The Men of Iron, Castigator Titans, etc. were mostly thought of as legends and myths at that point, largely because the Emperor was wise enough to steer clear of sentient weapons like the ones from the Dark Age of Technology. A lesson that the Imperium never learned after the Heresy was that one shouldn't make the same mistake twice! Like him or not, the Emperor at least had the sense not to unleash sentient, star-killing weapons on his enemies just because he could. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

No, he just unleashed the psi-Titans instead, constructs capable of taking planets single-handedly without firing a weapon, due to the psychic terror they exude.

[Mellow]

Isn’t this thread meant to be about Khan and Fulgrim rather than other items of lore?!

[WarriorFish]

Please make use of the Report button rather than taking moderation into your own hands. Since this showdown is apparently confirmed and with discussion about other things it is time to wrap this up. If you wish to discuss said other things please create a topic for it. Thanks.