Heldrake?

[Sonoftherubric21]

As the title says; What are the groups thoughts on the Heldrake? 

It looks solid overall, lands at 180......debating getting one. 

Seems like a great alpha-strike unit, decent melee potential, ridiculous movement, and of course Daemon Engines are relatively tough already so the 3+/5++ with regaining a wound each turn has its uses. 

 

What are everyone's thoughts?  

[Khalan]

Kinda mediocre at everything, would rather have an autocannon/las pred tbh.

[Archaeinox]

i dont think it is as important as it was pre-codex as an option for immediate pressure. 

 

its a good way to hit hellblasters without them using Auspex Scan (scarabs, webway)

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

i dont think it is as important as it was pre-codex as an option for immediate pressure.

 

its a good way to hit hellblasters without them using Auspex Scan (scarabs, webway)

Right. It has one real niche....crossing the table and tying up stuff that would otherwise punish deepstrike.

 

It also synergizes well with mobile Daemons that have Loci.

Edited February 9, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Minsc]

I've only used it once or twice in 8th and found it extremely underwhelming.

 

It's melee attacks are weak, and the Hades-option is a waste of points since it will be hitting on 5's...
This leaves the Flamestorm, which while alright, is not worth 180 pts.
There's simply so many other options I would rather pick (Forgefiends, Defilers, Predators, etc.)

 

Edit: The only decent thing about it is, as stated above, it's ability to tie things up on turn one. If that's worth the cost though is up to you.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Minsc

[Raven1]

I have used him once and he wasn't that great. He tied up a couple units and mulched through some infantry. With the flamer he is anti infantry in an army over flowing with ways to defeat infantry. We really need a flyer that can punch hard targets and the Heldrake doesnt do that.

[Nym]

It's 185pts actually... which makes it even worse.

 

Personal experience with them : used 1 or 2 Heldrakes several times. They never achieve anything, unless your opponent wants you to. It can't kill infantry, it can't kill vehicles. The only thing he's average at killing is Primaris marines and Terminators.

 

A friend of mine once charged my Heldrake with 5 regular terminators. I rolled a 6, wounded with 5 and he failed all his 4+. This is the only time this stupid beast did anything worth remembering, and it's the result of a huge luck on my side and bad luck of my opponent. MathHammer tells me only 1 Terminator should have died.

 

They do make very good Distraction Carnifexes however. When my Heldrake is on the table, people always get out of their way to kill it first.

 

In my not so humble opinion :

 

The Baleflamer should be 2d6 to have any relevance (maybe drop damage to 1 to compensate, like the Hellhound).

The claws should be free.

The cost of the beast itself should go down to 100, in order to make the Hades autocannon desirable OR its profile should be changed to be an assault weapon (seriously, this thing is supposed to be the same weapon that's equipped on Forgefiends.... but it's 10 times smaller)

Edited February 9, 2018 by Nym

[MoGuy]

I have yet to field mine in 8th edition. However, I agree that it has almost zero offensive power. Yet I want to field one along with the MVB and a Maulerfiend. The Drake can charge something turn 1 to apply pressure and hopefully my opponent will try to shoot it down thus it can absorb attention otherwise directed towards my CC monsters.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I may skip them for now, maybe if I catch one on sale perhaps......

 

I loved the fluff for them, i think the model is pretty baller as far as a mutated ship goes.  Ill wait for it to get fixed maybe via FAQ or Chapter Approved this year if thats the case, I was wondering why its so dang expensive points wise. 

[Ahzek451]

I converted one awhile back and with the new fluff stating that they are popular amongst the sons...i wanted to use one but as others have said, its better as a distraction but not with thise points. The close combat weapon should be free.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Sounds like id almost rather take another Forgefiend for 177 with hades, or mauler fiend and save 30 or so points, or another mutalith. ya know?

 

[Ahzek451]

Not to change the subject too much, but it seems like the real difference between a mauler and a vortex besst is thst the mauler has less but stronger attacks. And vortex has more. Mauler has a bit better save and is faster. But those bonuses are so nice from the vortex. I either want two vortex or a vortex and forgefiend.

[HeresyBeliever]

Personally forget forgefiend and the drake if you are looking for competitive units. Both are fun models to build and use but there are more powerful options. 

 

The maulerfiend looks good on paper but in my experiences they have done nothing.

Game one they basically only have flyers

Game two they killed it turn 1. 

 

I have another mauler to build and I will test them again when i have had enough of my cultist spam. 

[Skerr]

I have one I want to paint for my Sons army though have not been able to work into any lists.  Thought about the cc aspects of it though it just seems pricey,  I was thinking of using it to attack other fliers.

[Paladin777]

i Think the drake is so many points because of it’s speed and some of it’s defensive abilities like the invulnerable save and wound regen. It’s speed is amazing, but I agree that it has no bite for its price. Much like the 7th and earlier defiler: less potent than the sum of its parts.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Personally forget forgefiend and the drake if you are looking for competitive units. Both are fun models to build and use but there are more powerful options. 

 

The maulerfiend looks good on paper but in my experiences they have done nothing.

Game one they basically only have flyers

Game two they killed it turn 1. 

 

I have another mauler to build and I will test them again when i have had enough of my cultist spam. 

Specifically in a TS army with all of our bonuses to Daemons and the ability to have a TS HQ (Prince) cast Flickering Flames on it, the Forgefiend works. There are actually some other Legions who can make them work too, especially if they bring Daemons in another detachment (Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children come to mind), but they are indeed not for everybody. If you've got buffs it can take advantage of or lots of CP to feed to Daemonforge, it's great to have one in a list (maybe not more than that).

 

The Drake, however, is just universally bad UNLESS you have a specific strategy built around using one or two as a distraction. They were really good when everyone only had Indexes because there were few abilities that allowed first turn charges and their ability to do so made them feel unique and scary. They've been left behind.

Edited February 9, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[MoGuy]

They need a price drop to about 130 points and their flamer has to actually do some damage. Make it 2D6 hits with D1 or something.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Personally forget forgefiend and the drake if you are looking for competitive units. Both are fun models to build and use but there are more powerful options. 

 

The maulerfiend looks good on paper but in my experiences they have done nothing.

Game one they basically only have flyers

Game two they killed it turn 1. 

 

I have another mauler to build and I will test them again when i have had enough of my cultist spam. 

 

My forgefiend always puts in work even against "competitive" lists. 

 

Probably because the 1k sons can buff it to the stratosphere, had the sucker peg anything lower then T7 pretty regularly. 

 

That and the fact i often field 3-5 daemon engines.... go ahead and peg the forgefiend. often enough to get something else across the board to support the horde of tzaangors or rubrics your busy dealing with turn 1.  Ill be impressed when I see a list that can kill 3-5 daemon engines turn 1. 

[Mekhitar]

I used to field the drake (in 7th) as what remained of the ship that was once my sorcerer's personal transport... back in the day.  He had an existing fondness for it, and I found the fluff hilarious.

But it just... doesn't perform. =/ So it stays on the shelf and looks pretty.

[Paladin777]

Really the only thing it kinda excels at is killing small Primaris squads like aggressors and inceptors.