Cheap Dread Loadouts - anyone tried them?

[Endgame]

I've been playing around with list builds with my normal dread load out of ML and Twin Las.  I keep looking at the Heavy Plasma or Twin Heavy Bolter options - 112 points for a dread just seems fantastic. At 224 points, I can pickup 2 dreads for the cost of a typical terminator squad in my Death wing (different roles though I suppose).  Anyone tried either option?  What about with a Twin AC to go with the Heavy Plas or Bolter?   

 

 

[SnakeChisler]

Twin Autocannon is your best bet at 130ish 8 shots damage 2 strength 7 range 48"

 

Best assault cannon / heavy bolter platforms are the 2 character speeders

 

Forgeworld dreads the most interesting looks to be the Relic Deredeo with some big S8 8 shot autocannon thing plus missiles

 

Normal dreads don't have enough wounds to justify twin las and the Leviathan doesn't really have the range as your wanting to keep still for grim resolve

 

Prob gonna buy a Deredeo next month see how funds go was thinking of a Sacarian but this sounds better

[Berzul]

I constantly run 2 dreads with 2 twin autocannons on each. They are awesome. Good enough range not to need to move them, as to fair well with just BS3+ with Grim Resolve. 40 extra points to turn them into venerables is not a bad investment, though.

[Endgame]

In the context of deathwing, the twin autocannon does't really seem all that good - am I off somewhere here?

 

For dealing with chaff, I think you'd prefer heavy bolter and autocannon?  And for tanks, the over charged heavy plasma cannon seems to outperfom the AC against 2+, 3+, and 4+ save T7 and T8 models.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

The TAC is a very good allrounder. Good  AP, multiwound damage, high rate of fire. I've yet to find a game where it isn't useful.

[Brother Chaplain Tyranus]

I constantly run 2 dreads with 2 twin autocannons on each. They are awesome. Good enough range not to need to move them, as to fair well with just BS3+ with Grim Resolve. 40 extra points to turn them into venerables is not a bad investment, though.

I love the venerable dreads. The 2+ BS with grim resolve is well worth the 20 points I think. I have been using the dreads as shooting platforms and giving them an autocannon on one arm and las cannons on the other.

[Berzul]

 

I constantly run 2 dreads with 2 twin autocannons on each. They are awesome. Good enough range not to need to move them, as to fair well with just BS3+ with Grim Resolve. 40 extra points to turn them into venerables is not a bad investment, though.

I love the venerable dreads. The 2+ BS with grim resolve is well worth the 20 points I think. I have been using the dreads as shooting platforms and giving them an autocannon on one arm and las cannons on the other.

 

 

Have also tried this.

 

I've debated many times with myself if it would be best to go with Ven Dreads with TLC and TAC, or just go for a Predator with LC Sponsons and PAC. I mean, after all, they come to close points costs. But, I do believe the Dread wins most of the time. BS 2+, 6+ FnP, Grim Resolve, and Wisdom of the Ancients, makes them better in the end for me.

[Helycon]

If you can find the points, preds will win out with Killshot though. It's devasating to an opponent's vehicles and monsters, basically wiping multiple of them each turn.

[Berzul]

Yeah, I was going for a one-on-one comparison. But, three predators can do greater damage than three dreadnoughts most of the time.

 

Dreadnoughts can punch you to the ground, though. 3 ven dreads with TAC or AC, CCCW and HF? That can be quite powerful in the mid-close range.

[Helycon]

True, but you need to get em there. Since we were discussing the ranged variant, I opted in the Preds.

 

A dread will stomp on other vehicles in melee with ease. But you have the Leviathan for that :P

 

I'm trying my Deredeo tomorrow, not in the best list though. I also want to try my Sicaran Venator, in 1250 points, so I needed to cut a lot of stuff. Still, we'll see how it does :)

Edited February 10, 2018 by Helycon

[Stormxlr]

True, but you need to get em there. Since we were discussing the ranged variant, I opted in the Preds.

 

A dread will stomp on other vehicles in melee with ease. But you have the Leviathan for that :P

 

I'm trying my Deredeo tomorrow, not in the best list though. I also want to try my Sicaran Venator, in 1250 points, so I needed to cut a lot of stuff. Still, we'll see how it does :)

I tried Deredeo a couple of times and it never did what it is supposed to do. The missile launcher is waaaay underpowered to do any more than 1 or 2 wounds MAX. Plasma cannonade doesn't have enough shots, las cannon is okay but only 2 shots so you gonna average at doing 6 damage, auto can is decent but AP is too low. For ~230 points and Relic tax, it just does not do enough damage Edited February 10, 2018 by Stormxlr

[Helycon]

I don't get the point about AP, since it's exactly the same as a regular autocannon.

 

It has more wounds, but can be bracketed. Then again, that happens basically when the old dread was dead. The helical targeting makes it great against flyers. It has an invulnerable save, and can take a Pavise over the missile launcher, which is indeed subpar. The biggest drawback is lack of range really, since it lost 12" for 1S.

 

Still, I'll see what happens, I wanted to try it anyway, and since I like quite a bit of our elites (yummy RW Apothecary), I thought I'd give it a go.

 

Also, the statistical average of 2d6 is 7 ;)

Edited February 10, 2018 by Helycon

[Stormxlr]

I don't get the point about AP, since it's exactly the same as a regular autocannon.

 

It has more wounds, but can be bracketed. Then again, that happens basically when the old dread was dead. The helical targeting makes it great against flyers. It has an invulnerable save, and can take a Pavise over the missile launcher, which is indeed subpar. The biggest drawback is lack of range really, since it lost 12" for 1S.

 

Still, I'll see what happens, I wanted to try it anyway, and since I like quite a bit of our elites (yummy RW Apothecary), I thought I'd give it a go.

 

Also, the statistical average of 2d6 is 7

I got a number wrong okay, an average is 7 whoop dee doo, fine ill give you exact numbers to a decimal point. And regular autocannon is only worth it in big numbers on cheap bodies. Ven dread with 2xtwin autocans is gonna do 2.667 wounds against a Storm Raven and 2 Ven dreads will do 5.33 while costing the same as anti infantry SR.

 

The point about the AP is that Autocans on marines are not worth it becuase the platforms that carry them are really expensive like Deredeo for 232 pts -1ap is not good at all. Should have been -2. Would have made it worth it. So lets say you are shooting at a Storm Raven with all the weapons on Deredeo, (autocan,launcher,hbs for 232pts) You gonna average out at 5.88 Damage. That is just goddamn terrible... But wait a second! The lascannon version is even worse! 5.27 Damage...  However Plasma cannonade comes out on top for number of wounds caused at 8.33 but you can end up rolling ones and damaging yourself. This is all a hypothetical scenario but that low ap on autocannon really hurts it. If it had ap-2 it would push it to 7.315 Damage which is in more of acceptable range a little more expensive and just a little less damage but much safer. The missile launcher should be straight up 6 shots because it only raises the average number of damage by 0.3. Lascannon version needs to be 4 shots at 85 pts because this way it actually becomes decent and not literally the most expensive yet the worst weapon. It seems someone at FW did not do any math on the Deredeo because point costs and balance is not in any way proper. Because Plasma version is better at tank killing than dedicated anti tank weapons are. Also its the cheapest at 222 points. And actually you probably should not take the missile launcher because its 30 pts and the difference between average wounds is 7.777 without and 8.333 with it. You are better off spending those 30 pts on something else.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Stormxlr

[Helycon]

Calm down, it was more of a jest :)

 

To be fair, a Raven is one of the tougher vehicles. I reckon it murders Eldar flyers and skimmers like no tomorrow, as an example. Like I said, the missile launcher is subpar. I'm not taking it, since it's, well, crap against marine based units. I think it will fare better against lower toughness though. But hey, we'll see what it does with just bolters and cannons.

[Helycon]

I had a game against Harlequins today and it was a massacre with the Deredeo. Using the Helical tageting array is then even more fun due to completely ignoring their mirrage launchers for more dakka hits. The 5+ invulnerable is nice to have for sure. I was pleasantly surprised by how it did. I used it in a gunline with Azrael and a Lieutenant for rerolls, at which point it becomes a beast. On the other hand, I feel it would have been fine with a regular Vendread and autocannons too, but you then miss out on the heavy bolters with a big, beefy platform to carry them. Sadly, I didn't get a chance to use them against the T'au, otherwise I would have liked to see what it did against them, since their vehicles are a bit tougher without a massive increase in saves. For me, it was the man of the match.