Not ready to give up on deathwing

[Brother Chaplain Tyranus]

So since the release of the codex I haven't even bothered with deathwing.  Every time I have tried playing them, my opponent just kited them across the board and they don't really have enough firepower for the points (imo) to justify taking as a shooting line. However with that being said, I think I want to try and run some in my game tonight.  I've been finding the most success with an azrael firing line, but I have had a few issues.  I've been running a dark talon but it gets shot down pretty quick but for the points, It's not a bad wound soaker. My black knights have been getting destroyed in the first turn every time I play another shooting army and I am not sure they are worth their points either but they have really been my mobile units. I run 3 dreadnoughts which i realize is a lot so I was thinking of dropping one of those and my bikes, and I can field a terminator squad with an assault cannon.  I also think my deep striking hasn't been super smart in the past as my opponents usually try and draw them away and sacrifice something to save the more important units.  So coupled with playing smarter, do you guys think that having the deathwing in your armies is worth it? 

[Berzul]

I played the following list a few days back against T'au (which are the masters at kitting you across the board):

 

2 squads of Terminators with Assault Cannons

2 Apothecaries, one next to each squad, to heal them

Darkshroud with Assault Cannon to keep them under the -1 bubble

Master to give them to-hit rerolls as they move

Lieutenant to give them to-wound rerolls as they move

Dark Talon, to pierce the enemy line and provide with infantry killing air support

 

Is the list slow? Yes. But you can still create a 24 inch kill zone around you

 

Does the Dark Talon get shot at a lot? Yes, but that keeps the termies safe, and first couple of turns you can keep the dark talon at -2 t o be hit with good positioning, making it a VERY good threat generator

 

The real issues were lack of anti armor. Which you could get if you traded the Dark Talon for a TAC and TLC Ven Dread, while keeping it fluffy and deathwing-y

 

But, with 2+ saves, 5++ saves, dedicated apothecaries, and the icon of old caliban, the whole formation was REALLY survivable. I mean, in 6 turns I lost 3 models in total, AND got (almost all of) them back on the board by the end.

 

I can see this logic applied to a 2000 list, for something pretty fun and deadly.

[Stormxlr]

My deathwing list consists mostly of Dreadnoughts tbh

Leviathan with Grav or Storm Cannon and a Claw, Relic Contemptor with chainfist and kheres, Chaplain dread with TLC and a fist. Asmodai, DW Ancient, DWK and LRC all together can be quite scary.

[march10k]

I've had good success with a large deathwing component in my list.  I think it's one of those things where if you splash it, it dies horribly without accomplishing anything, you have to take enough of it to survive the counter and still accomplish the mission. Sort of the way that a single land raider is garbage because most lists have enough antitank to handle it, but if you roll three of them across the table, two of them wreck face while he's busy killing the other one. 

 

So my deathwing component consists of ten tactical terminators, eight knights, Belial, and an ancient.  DWAing the tacticals puts out a blizzard of bolter fire on the most important turn, turn one. The knights then cap the enemy's toughest or most dangerous (not always the same thing) unit.  After that, highly mobile enemies probably don't let the knights ever get into a second melee, but that's okay, it lets me push them around or, depending on my assessment of the situation, they're running straight back towards my table edge to guard Azzy's lascannon farm.  To be fair, it the enemy is that mobile and that dangerous to my devastators, I might actually just deploy the knights defensively in the first place.  Whether the enemy is that mobile or not, the tactical terminators continue to contribute bolter fire, which, sadly, is better than swinging their powerfists (not that I'd pass up the chance to charge with them), because fists and hammers are so horrible this edition.  And, if I still have ten tactical terminators on turn two, I probably spend the CP to combat-squad them at that point, giving myself two 30" shooting bubbles instead of one. 

[Stormxlr]

I've had good success with a large deathwing component in my list.  I think it's one of those things where if you splash it, it dies horribly without accomplishing anything, you have to take enough of it to survive the counter and still accomplish the mission. Sort of the way that a single land raider is garbage because most lists have enough antitank to handle it, but if you roll three of them across the table, two of them wreck face while he's busy killing the other one. 

 

So my deathwing component consists of ten tactical terminators, eight knights, Belial, and an ancient.  DWAing the tacticals puts out a blizzard of bolter fire on the most important turn, turn one. The knights then cap the enemy's toughest or most dangerous (not always the same thing) unit.  After that, highly mobile enemies probably don't let the knights ever get into a second melee, but that's okay, it lets me push them around or, depending on my assessment of the situation, they're running straight back towards my table edge to guard Azzy's lascannon farm.  To be fair, it the enemy is that mobile and that dangerous to my devastators, I might actually just deploy the knights defensively in the first place.  Whether the enemy is that mobile or not, the tactical terminators continue to contribute bolter fire, which, sadly, is better than swinging their powerfists (not that I'd pass up the chance to charge with them), because fists and hammers are so horrible this edition.  And, if I still have ten tactical terminators on turn two, I probably spend the CP to combat-squad them at that point, giving myself two 30" shooting bubbles instead of one. 

Sounds good on paper until 20 terminators die to 30 noise marines :( because that what happens every time i play against them.

[Master Sheol]

The best weapon of the terminators is the deep strike.

I gave up using the LR ad transport cause i always Deep strike my DW

My fav unit is a DWK unit of 6/7 models backed by a IntChap and One DW Ancient

They always won all the HtH they faced

[G8Keeper]

The best weapon of the terminators is the deep strike.

I gave up using the LR ad transport cause i always Deep strike my DW

My fav unit is a DWK unit of 6/7 models backed by a IntChap and One DW Ancient

They always won all the HtH they faced

 

Exactly the same as me.  I'm actually getting to fight a Fallen army soon and I feel dirty dropping the Interrogator Chaplain (re-rolls anyway vs fallen).

[Brother Chaplain Tyranus]

So I did end up putting a squad of termies in my list.  6 deathwing terminators with a chainfist and assault cannon. I normally tried to use them as more of a strike unit and dropped them behind the enemy lines but this time I used them as an advance linebreaker really.  I was running a parking lot with hellblasters, devs, azrael, and venerable dreads and I Was playing against deathguard with Mortarion in the list.  I really didnt want to have him make it to my front lines so I dropped the squad on an objective that was being held by a squad of death guard marines.  Mostly because he was on defend that objective and I had capture it and kill a squad. They did a pretty good amount of damage actually.  Mortarion ignored them, but they were able to clear out the squad on the objective and start to move towards the main bulk of the force.  He had to send his demon prince in which held back his advance from getting to the main line so I would say that was a good choice.

 

Still pretty expensive for the squad, but I do love their survivabiity.  Seems like the worst thing for them would be multiple attack units becuase then the odds aren't in my favor.  Still worth taking though.  Anyone else use DW?

[SnakeChisler]

I've tried a couple of times with either Deathwing Knights or standard.

 

Problem even with deep striking is lack of mobility, storm bolters are pretty neat these days but you need re-roll backup and most people have an intercept stratagem so you need to be aware of LOS and positioning. Combat wise power fists don't do enough against larger units due to lack of attacks and -1 to hit and then your only 5++

Heavy weapons on terminators don't appear to work, my mate runs Grey Knights the -1 change from 7th is huge and has really had an impact

 

Missions these days unless your doing narrative suit mobile and higher model count armies.

 

For playing Deathwing I'd suggest setting up custom scenarios and narrative missions with a friend then your not tied down to 50% deepstrike and progressive objectives.

 

There are currently a load of things which conspire to make terminators hard work, we might see a few more on the tables if they got a decent points drop, Deathwing Knights especially.

 

Maybe a move twice psychic power would help ;)

Edited February 14, 2018 by SnakeChisler

[Kein]

Hello, brothers

Comming back in 40k  with my Deathwing from far 5th edition, maybe someone will find usefull my "oldnewbie" narrative game impressions

 

first 2 games from far 2013, 60 power level, narrative

 

List

Belial

Deathwing Ancient (dual lightning claws)

Apothecary

 

10 Deathwing terminators (sgt with claws, 4 TH+SS, 2 AC, 2 chainfists)

Land Raider Crusader (+SB and multimelta)

 

tactics

combat squad terminators, pick attack point, coordinated DWA within range of Belial, and charge

 

don't buy anything since 5th, so dont have any "new" fancy toys like knights, and other... for now

 

Game 1

against Death Guard (lord, daemon prince, plaguecaster, tzeench sorcerer, blob of cultists, 2 squads of plague marines, 2 hellbrutes

 

thoughts:

even small squad with DWA enough to clear screen (cultists, plaguemarines), if you drop in right point. 

apothecary - must have, IMO ("man of the match" - TH+SS terminator, killed and come back 3 times )) )

as always, not enough long range AT to counter enemy

 

result: draw (Dominate and Destroy, 15:15) on 5 turn (big chance to win on 6 and tabeling death guard on 7)

 

Game 2

against thematic ORC HORDE. 3*30 boys, boss on bike, nob with banner, doc and bigmek

dreamed about it long ago ))

 

absolutely non tactical game, CHARGE! It's 40k, why do you play it, if you don't like CHARGE sometimes?

 

thoughts:

tactics need to be tactical but that kind of meatgame might be fun somtimes

dual claws - good option for sgt, with 3 base attacks

fists and hammers, unfortunately, really fall in efficiency without Belial rerolls and Ancient with -1 to hit. in larger games adding Asmoday might help it somehow... 

Deathwing still have big troubles pick out characters in big piles of meat, and in generating big amount of dice to clear that piles FAST. maybe shoot + charge and then fall back with intractable will help with it

fortress of shields - GREAT thing, especially with ton of weak attacks incoming ) need to find another -1 to hit

 

result: my tabeling on turn 3)))

 

overall thoughts: i think that, even with still over costed termies, that fact that they a bit more survivable and shooty make me hope about good non-auto loose mono Deathwing army, and definitely will try to make them shine

[Berzul]

The more I try the Deathwing in this Edition, the more I feel like they are best used with as little upgrades as possible.

 

Their heavy weapons are too few and fire with too much penalty to be worth it over a heavy weapons dedicated unit.

 

The fact that it is quite hard to get in a charge unless you HQ-up for that specific purpose, means that melee weapons like Thunder Hammers cannot be relied on.

 

Storm Shields are good, but massive fire will still take you out through wound supression.

 

The best results I've had with the DW have been naked squads of 5 or 10, holding the mid-field line with their storm bolters. Put an apothecary in each squad to keep them survivable. Should someone charge in at them, their power fists will take care of it. They are really hard to push out of an objective.

 

Meanwhile, Knights in deepstrike, with Ancients and Chaplains, can push the offensive. Hopefully with the support of some ven dreads in the back line, and/or some flyers in the front lines.