Swan-of-War Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hey all - I've been playing Ad Mech and Eldar so far in 8th and am building up my first Blood Angels army. I'd like a list that's somewhat competitive and need your help deciding on some anti-tank options What I plan for my army on so far: Lemartes Cpt. Smashpants Death Company (at least 10) 2 x 3 Inceptors w/bolters 3 x 5 Scouts maybe 3 Aggressors I'm shying away from Sanguinary guard for conversion reasons, but might consider a larger unit of Death Company or a second unit. So what's good for anti-tank these days? Hellblasters? Five or ten? Is the 30" range enough? Lascannon Preds? Razorbacks w/Lascannons? Storm Talon? I think this would be cool - Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendent Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I am a huge fan of running 3 lascannon Predators to use the Killshot strategem. NTaW 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Lascannons. Add some lascannons. Then, bring more lascannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Lascannons. Add some lascannons. Then, bring more lascannons. What's the most efficient way to field them though? Devastators? Predator? Storm Talon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Best anti-tank? A good candidate is the sicaran venator. As long as it is not your only vehicle and only anti-tank, it will not let you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazcruzk Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I usually play at 1500 and I've found that a 5man tac squad with a las cannon is a good, cheap option. I've also really been enjoying the FW Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought with twin las cannon. 2+ BS and being a character makes him a real thorn, even if the points are a little steep. I've only had a few games with my plasma inceptors so far, they do great even against T8 but I would be sure to keep them near a company ancient/novite because they will draw a huge amount of fire. SoS ignoring wounds and the chance to fire on death can really ruin your opponent's plans and get in their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 The Venator used to be 245 pts bass, now it is 170. Very very competitive now, especially that you will probably drop your target down at least one bracket and stick it with a -1 to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendent Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I'm personally at a point where I try to avoid Forgeworld. Even after Chapter Approved a lot of stuff just feels really unbalanced- the Venator seems like a pretty decent example. There's really nothing else we have that's quite so effective from what I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I'm personally at a point where I try to avoid Forgeworld. Even after Chapter Approved a lot of stuff just feels really unbalanced- the Venator seems like a pretty decent example. There's really nothing else we have that's quite so effective from what I've heard. This is rather vague. There are a lot of good FW options that are efficient and effective for all marine armies. You’ll pay a $$ and points premium for them, but the models are awesome. The rules are unique and fun to play as well. Honestly? FW units aren’t even what’s causing the issues with balance. It’s the original GW line and rules that are throwing things off balance. Look at Eldar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcadian Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) I believe Forge World units are still suffering from the bad rep they got in early 7th when some of them actually were too good for their price point. Thankfully people seem to be coming around but some clubs still see you bringing a FW unit and immediately call out WAAC without even looking at it any closer. Admittedly I am a massive FW fanboy but the units are priced/balanced a lot better in 8th. Had my Venator blown off the map by 2 Leman Russes T1 yesterday without it getting to fire once *shrug*. There’ll always be better and worse options in a codex, FW or not. PS: I like Devastators for ranged anti tank if I need it, but mostly Captain Smush and the DC with Hammers will do the heavy lifting. Edited February 11, 2018 by Blackcadian Swan-of-War 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 I believe Forge World units are still suffering from the bad rep they got in early 7th when some of them actually were too good for their price point. Thankfully people seem to be coming around but some clubs still see you bringing a FW unit and immediately call out WAAC without even looking at it any closer. Admittedly I am a massive FW fanboy but the units are priced/balanced a lot better in 8th. Had my Venator blown off the map by 2 Leman Russes T1 yesterday without it getting to fire once *shrug*. There’ll always be better and worse options in a codex, FW or not. PS: I like Devastators for ranged anti tank if I need it, but mostly Captain Smush and the DC with Hammers will do the heavy lifting. Many hammers do you run in your Death Company? My initial thought was to have all Power Swords but it looks like most people just have a couple peppered in Brother Crimson 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcadian Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) I believe Forge World units are still suffering from the bad rep they got in early 7th when some of them actually were too good for their price point. Thankfully people seem to be coming around but some clubs still see you bringing a FW unit and immediately call out WAAC without even looking at it any closer. Admittedly I am a massive FW fanboy but the units are priced/balanced a lot better in 8th. Had my Venator blown off the map by 2 Leman Russes T1 yesterday without it getting to fire once *shrug*. There’ll always be better and worse options in a codex, FW or not. PS: I like Devastators for ranged anti tank if I need it, but mostly Captain Smush and the DC with Hammers will do the heavy lifting. Many hammers do you run in your Death Company? My initial thought was to have all Power Swords but it looks like most people just have a couple peppered in I run two in a 10-12 man squad. I haven’t given them power swords yet and probably won't. They’re already expensive and the weight of attacks usually kills anything that isn‘t seriously heavy stuff like tanks or terminators. Edited February 11, 2018 by Blackcadian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I believe Forge World units are still suffering from the bad rep they got in early 7th when some of them actually were too good for their price point. Thankfully people seem to be coming around but some clubs still see you bringing a FW unit and immediately call out WAAC without even looking at it any Closer. Pre chapter approved did not help too in 8th. Malefic lords were extremely undescosted. Many players still remind the malefic lord spam with the super chicken. Gladly it seems points get adjusted quite steadily and FW units will lose their broken/ op label Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) The Malefic was indeed too strong for its point cost. The same can be said for Brimstone Horrirs, Conscripts w/ Commissars, the Changeling, etc. They certainly aren’t FW. The game is going to be in constant flux for the foreseeable future. FW units are just part of it. As for anti-tank, I think 3 Las Predators with Killshot is the best we have. Edited February 12, 2018 by Calistarius Kallas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I have come to enjoy killshot on 4xPred (1 ablative) with just the Autocannons. Omit the sponsons to afford the 4th pred basically. Hang the stormbolters but that is it. I feel there is something to be said for Sternguard with 2 AT weapons as they do extra duty vs infantry and also in CQC pretty well really. Nice multirole way of awarding a best evaluation my estimation currently. DC with Thunderhammer and many other great ways already mentioned. Many ways to fill the AT role really depending on models, mission and opponent. Best is in the eye of the beholder and a bit of a wide avenue really. GW is doing a good job I think =) Kallas, Brother Aether and Calistarius 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Press with just autocannons is interesting! How does that work? Strength in numbers? Crimson Ghost IX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Press with just autocannons is interesting! How does that work? Strength in numbers? I think it’s actually a better option than what I was suggesting. It is strength in volume of shots and D4 each is better to me than d6+1. If you can achieve something that’s an average die roll without having to throw said die...I’d do that every time. So you’re wounding most vehicles on 3+ or +4 and you’re gaining effectiveness against infantry units. I’m sold on autocannon preds as our top option now. Crimson Ghost IX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Killshot predators are great but I'm also a fan of multiple Lascannon-Tactical Squads. It offers a lot more board presence, ObSec and the opponent has to basically wipe you to get rid of all your anti-tank instead of focussing his shooting on a few tanks/Devastators/whatever. Crimson Ghost IX, Aothaine and Grazcruzk 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 That’s true, but on the other hand you’re looking at 160 points for 11 wounds and 2 lascannon shots and 6 heavy bolter rounds. If you want the same lascannon output it’d cost you 180 points for 10 wounds. Granted, you get an increase in volume of fire with rapid fire bolters, but I’d rather have the more mobile tank and keeping my troop squads with the standard gear. That just fits my play style though. That’s the beauty of the game though. Crimson Ghost IX and Grazcruzk 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendent Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Press with just autocannons is interesting! How does that work? Strength in numbers? I think it’s actually a better option than what I was suggesting. It is strength in volume of shots and D4 each is better to me than d6+1. If you can achieve something that’s an average die roll without having to throw said die...I’d do that every time. So you’re wounding most vehicles on 3+ or +4 and you’re gaining effectiveness against infantry units. I’m sold on autocannon preds as our top option now. Autocannon Predators are decent but I still like lascannons for the AP and higher strength. You're unlikely to get more than a single killshot off in a game and once that's over S7 is going to struggle to get wounds off, and then struggle even more when most vehicles still get a 4+ save. I also love being able to use lascannon fire to delete tough multi-wound infantry once the big stuff is gone. Terminators, Ork Nobs, Tau Battlesuits.... each will die much more easily to a lascannon than chipping away with autocannon fire. Crimson Ghost IX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornithologist Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'll be the odd one out and mention the Repulsor. I use it as both a transport for aggressor and as a gun line tank. You would be suprised with how much people leave it alone for a turn or so. Also, I run a 5 man Devistator squad with 2 missle Launchers and 2 Lascannons. It would be 4 lascannons, but the models I have available and when I made the unit dictate my choices. Still, it lets me split the quad into a half anti infantry/anti tank if needed in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Lots of people tend to forget Dreadnoughts can use lascannons. Another good option is to have 1-3 Dreadnoughts with Lascannons. They will take fire away from the rest of your force and or pretty scary themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendent Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Here's a question- how much do people factor in the number of drops into making decisions about what to use for anti-tank? Part of what I like about predators is that they bring a lot of firepower for only a single drop. I can see some advantages to taking multiple Dreadnoughts etc but the downside is that you're less likely to go first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Sicaran Venator!!!!!!! Crimson Ghost IX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Press with just autocannons is interesting! How does that work? Strength in numbers? I think it’s actually a better option than what I was suggesting. It is strength in volume of shots and D4 each is better to me than d6+1. If you can achieve something that’s an average die roll without having to throw said die...I’d do that every time. So you’re wounding most vehicles on 3+ or +4 and you’re gaining effectiveness against infantry units. I’m sold on autocannon preds as our top option now. Charlo hit on the strength in numbers bit exactly = By bringing 4 predators without sponsons I am more likely to have 3 available to use killshot. 22w vs 11w at T7 3+ for the enemy to chew thru to shut me down. I am scavenging the sponson points to afford the ablative 4th predator in my lists. Calistarius and I agree in our preference for Pred Autokannon over dual Lascannon with Killshot, but both are very good really. This is not the only way to bring the big guns, but works well for me when I have Killshot Plans. Calistarius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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