What's up Dark Eldar?

[brother_b]

Hello all, I've been a long time Imperium player, currently playing the glorious Sons of Sanguinius, the Blood Angels. I've also got some Admech in the works. As we're a pretty close-knit group of players we all have different armies and interests. I'm really looking into starting a Xenos army and I'm a little intrigued by the Dark Eldar.

 

They used to be basically drug-fueled murder/slave/pirates. I don't know what they are now, with the whole Ynarri friendly with Harlequins and Craftworld, etc. 

 

Yeah I've come back for 8th like so many others.

 

Anyway, I like the minis now way more than some of the ones I remember from back in the day. What really intrigued me were the following, though, and do people even play these?

 

Medusae

Clawed fiend

Cronos/Talos

Wracks

Ur-Ghul

Razorwings

Sslyth (what? snakemen!)

Khymerae

Beast masters

Grotesques

 

What are those things? They all look awesome, I'm guessing they're not as I never see them played in online battle reports. As a side note, WAAC and such is not my cup-of-tea (nor my groups). We're regular players that compete but don't go crazy spamming 9 Stormravens or 30 dark reapers or whatever.

 

So, can anybody get me up to speed with the army? (I'm thinking they're fast, yet brittle) Whats up with the eldar love fest now, no more hate for the craftworlds?

 

Also, info about the above creatures, of course.

 

And finally, I'm probably going to grab some start building boxes if I do this. Do they represent a good starting force/investment?

 

Take care, and thanks all!

[Lord_Caerolion]

About half of those were from the old Court of the Archon (Ur-Ghul, Sslyth, and Medusae), the Beastmasters (Khymerae, Clawed Fiends and Razor Wings), or the good old Haemonculi creations (Cronos/Talos/Grotesques). Not sure how they do competitively, since I've never really focused on that side of things, but really, this is where the Dark Eldar creativity shines, as the Court were initially described as supposed to be being archetypes, they just never really did anything with that, more along the lines of the old Inquisitorial Henchmen from Codex Daemonhunters/Witchhunters.

As such, my own Archon doesn't have an Ur-Ghul, since I hate the model, instead he's got an insectoid hunting-hound converted from Tyranid bits, and his two Ork bodyguards counting as Sslyth.

 

In regards to their relations with the Craftworlds, them hating them was never really a thing, it was just a relic from the old non-existant background, with people just assuming they were Dark Elves in space, with the Craftworlds being the equivalent of High Elves. They hated each other in Warhammer Fantasy, so they must hate each other in 40k! Really though, they're more along the lines of estranged siblings, one a strict conservative, the other a hard-core drug-using heavy metal fan. They don't really get along, love aggravating each other (well ok, not so much the Craftworlders here, but the Commorrites love mocking the Craftworlders), and their arguments can get incredibly heated, but at the end of the day, they're still Eldar, and everyone else are filthy mon-keigh. The Craftworlders just wish the Commorrites would stop being so crass and risking the same behaviour as led to the fall, and the Commorrites wish the Craftworlders would take the sticks out of their butt and act like the superior race they actually are. After all, the other races are but vermin compared to them, so who cares if they hunt a few rats?

[brother_b]

About half of those were from the old Court of the Archon (Ur-Ghul, Sslyth, and Medusae), the Beastmasters (Khymerae, Clawed Fiends and Razor Wings), or the good old Haemonculi creations (Cronos/Talos/Grotesques). Not sure how they do competitively, since I've never really focused on that side of things, but really, this is where the Dark Eldar creativity shines, as the Court were initially described as supposed to be being archetypes, they just never really did anything with that, more along the lines of the old Inquisitorial Henchmen from Codex Daemonhunters/Witchhunters.

As such, my own Archon doesn't have an Ur-Ghul, since I hate the model, instead he's got an insectoid hunting-hound converted from Tyranid bits, and his two Ork bodyguards counting as Sslyth.

 

In regards to their relations with the Craftworlds, them hating them was never really a thing, it was just a relic from the old non-existant background, with people just assuming they were Dark Elves in space, with the Craftworlds being the equivalent of High Elves. They hated each other in Warhammer Fantasy, so they must hate each other in 40k! Really though, they're more along the lines of estranged siblings, one a strict conservative, the other a hard-core drug-using heavy metal fan. They don't really get along, love aggravating each other (well ok, not so much the Craftworlders here, but the Commorrites love mocking the Craftworlders), and their arguments can get incredibly heated, but at the end of the day, they're still Eldar, and everyone else are filthy mon-keigh. The Craftworlders just wish the Commorrites would stop being so crass and risking the same behaviour as led to the fall, and the Commorrites wish the Craftworlders would take the sticks out of their butt and act like the superior race they actually are. After all, the other races are but vermin compared to them, so who cares if they hunt a few rats?

 

Well put. Thanks for that info, I look forward to more feedback.

[WarriorFish]

I think the Court models are good, I'm not sure about how effective they are on the table top though. The DE range is not short of good models, but I don't think that with the Index less useful choices are that viable unfortunately. I'm not aware of anyone using them?

[Halandaar]

In regards to their relations with the Craftworlds, them hating them was never really a thing, it was just a relic from the old non-existant background, with people just assuming they were Dark Elves in space, with the Craftworlds being the equivalent of High Elves. They hated each other in Warhammer Fantasy, so they must hate each other in 40k! Really though, they're more along the lines of estranged siblings, one a strict conservative, the other a hard-core drug-using heavy metal fan. They don't really get along, love aggravating each other (well ok, not so much the Craftworlders here, but the Commorrites love mocking the Craftworlders), and their arguments can get incredibly heated, but at the end of the day, they're still Eldar, and everyone else are filthy mon-keigh. The Craftworlders just wish the Commorrites would stop being so crass and risking the same behaviour as led to the fall, and the Commorrites wish the Craftworlders would take the sticks out of their butt and act like the superior race they actually are. After all, the other races are but vermin compared to them, so who cares if they hunt a few rats?

 

Good post. To add a little to this, all the various Eldar factions are united by their hatred/fear of Slaanesh, and the significant difference between the Craftworlds and Commoragh is essentially how they avoid their souls being consumed. The Craftworlders by protecting Eldar life at all costs and capturing their souls upon expiration for internment into the Infinity Circuit, and the Dark Eldar by inflicting suffering on others in their place. It's been the case for a long time that both factions will work together and even represented on the tabletop with them being "Battle Brothers" in 6th and 7th Edition.

 

As for these guys, and why there aren't more of them;

 

Medusae

Clawed fiend

Cronos/Talos

Wracks

Ur-Ghul

Razorwings

Sslyth (what? snakemen!)

Khymerae

Beast masters

Grotesques

 

I suspect it's mostly just their perceived effectiveness versus competing choices in the same detachment slots. Dark Eldar are much better at shooting than they are at assaulting, and all the above units are melee-focused. WAAC may not be your thing (it certainly isn't mine), but the impression I get from most battle report videos I've seen is that they tend to be done by the sort of people who pick effectiveness over coolness. So that's why you see Kabalite Trueborn instead of Beastmaster packs and so on.

 

Things may change though; the Drukhari Codex is due to be the next one out (so probably as soon as the next 3-4 weeks) and these units may get significant boosts to their effectiveness via stratagems.

[Aothaine]

If you want to see various Dark Eldar units being used I suggest you check out Table Top Tactics. They had some pretty cool bat reps for Dark Eldar. Also, expect more to come with the Dark Eldar codex dropping soon.

[Rhivan]

The biggest reason you don't see many of the models is either poor rules or being finecast models. 

 

Talos, Cronos, and Grotesques aren't the best this edition but they were a staple in 7th edition, I imagine our codex will buff them

 

As for beast packs and the court (also grotesques) they suffer from being finecast which leads to most players converting up those models. (For instance I have converted vargheists as clawed fiends and Cold One Knights as Sslyth) but beastpacks and some people from the court are actually pretty good, for instance clawed fiends shred primaris

 

To get you up to speed with the army we are fast and brittle as a general rule. Now we are supposed to be decent at both assault and shooting. The problem is our real stars come from shooting so people tend to focus on that, but we aren't able to outshoot shooting armies, nor are we able to out assault assault armies. What we should do (IMO) is assault shooty armies and shoot assaulty armies. Because we CAN do both, and we use our speed to do it.

 

I should inform you though that you will almost ALWAYS be fielding kabalites and raiders (or venoms) so you should like those models at least a little

[Lord Asvaldir]

All three of the beast units ad the court models are not bad choices, as Rhivan mentioned I suspect you just don't see them used much because they are all expensive finecast models that don't even look especially incredible anyway. I mean who wants to pay say $64 for 4 medusae, which is only like 60pts give or take. Not a great investment money wise. Lots of good alternative models out there for some of those units though. Out of those units I love my razorwings flocks in particular, they are a huge nuisance to all of my opponents as I take 5 little flocks of 3 and tie up units with them. Also definetly plan on getting more beast pack units once I have a beastmaster and good alternative models for khymare and clawed fiends. 

 

The other units you mentioned, all coven units just suffer from being really bad. Unfortunately coven units just are the worst right now, they really can't compare to the other DE choices. Hopefully the codex will fix that. 

 

I can't imagine a DE player not liking kabalite, raiders and venoms. After years of painting the old chaos space marines kit I can't stress enough how much better the kabalite warrior kit is, and they just look so good once finished.  

[Lord_Caerolion]

Also forgot to mention, the whole "Eldar love-fest" was more the creation of another way to deal with Slaanesh. It essentially boils down to the fact that all of Eldar society is essentially defined by the different ways they reacted to Slaanesh. The Craftworlders responded by shunning what they are, restricting their lives by the Path system, only allowing themselves to experience a fraction of their potential at a time, which does protect them by and large, but runs the risk of creating obsessions and being "trapped" on each Path. The Exodites followed a similar route, but more extremist, going back to nature so that they focussed only on survival.

The Dark Eldar, on the other hand, responded by refusing to admit there was a problem. They still follow the same lifestyles because, in their mind, the Eldar are the superior race in the galaxy, and reality is theirs, so why not have some fun with it? Sure, the mon-keigh might bleat about how they're in agony, or that "you can't do this", or some other pathetic whining in what they say counts as a "language", but really, they're just cattle. Less than, even. Of course, the Dark Eldar tend to ignore that Slaanesh drains their souls because of their link, and that's why they have to do what they do, and have to stay in Commorragh, but to the Commorrites, it's just a case of doing what they want, and the fact that the master does not live amongst his flock.

 

Now though, the Ynnari have come along, bringing a third option. Ynnead is a way the Eldar can actually fight back against Slaanesh, rather than merely existing (or ignoring) Her. Ynnead will claim their souls for itself, and will become strong enough that it can defeat Her. The issue is that, to the Craftworlders, this is basically heresy crossed with a conspiracy theory, as this is a God that hasn't existed, and still technically doesn't, and the strategy of using the Infinity Circuit to create an artificial afterlife has worked so far, so why change a good thing? Ynnead could just be a fools errand, and each soul that's taken from the Infinity Circuit, absorbed by these new "prophets", are souls that could be doomed to eternal torment.

To the Dark Eldar it's even worse, in a sense. Ynnead is proof that they could potentially be wrong. They've built their entire society around their current way of life, and now a cult has burst in saying "don't worry! We can save you from this! You can be free!" The Haemonculi are even more terrified, as their position in society is dependent on their usefulness, in both creating new Dark Eldar, and in reviving the dead. Now this other group has come along, demonstrating incredibly similar abilities, so they're fighting back against what the Covens see as rivals for their own power-base. Most of the Kabals/Cults just see the Ynnari as defeatist fools, as come on, the Dark Eldar need saving? They're having the time of their lives! They own the galaxy! Sure, Slaanesh wants to claim their souls, but what's life without a little risk!

 

Of course, a whole bunch of Eldar have joined up. Previously, their own myths and legends stated that Slaanesh would only be defeated at the End of Times, so they can finally be free of She Who Thirsts, but only after everything is destroyed. Now though, there's the option of another way. A way to bring forward the defeat of Slaanesh, without having to go through the Apocalypse to do so. To a lot of Eldar, this is worth the risks. Sure, they aren't protected by the Infinity Circuit, but as Malan'Tai and Iyanden shows, that idea isn't exactly foolproof anyway, and to a bunch of the Dark Eldar, it's a way to relieve the ennui of the ages, see something new, and get converted along the way. The Ynnari don't exactly say they can't keep acting the way they want afterwards, anyway. They just have to actually admit that Slaanesh impacts on their lives more than they want to say.

 

Then you've got the Harlequins, and who knows what those guys really want. A bunch threw their support behind the Ynnari, others decry it as heresy, others think that everybody needs to stop and worry about the Necrons instead. Basically, they're shifty.

[brother_b]

Excellent information and feedback all. So this is an army of "basics", meaning troops and fast flyers, sprinkled with a few other units it seems. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I look forward to seeing how this evolves, actually. I wonder what the new book will bring.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'd actually more liken it to 3 mini-dexes all intertwined, with shared vehicles. You've got the Kabalites, who tend to be shooty and fragile (Kabalites/Trueborn/Archons), the Cults, who are choppy and fragile (Wyches/Beastmasters/Reavers/Succubi), and the Covens, who are tougher and either choppy/support (Wracks/Grotesques/Taloi/Chronoi), with Incubi being the DEldar equivalent of Aspect Warriors, and Scourges showing the Space Marines how it's done by giving their Devastator-equivalent wings. If you try to focus on one branch exclusively you'll end up with a fairly one-dimensional list, they need to work in concert to get the best results. Similar to their Craftworld cousins in that regard, really.

[Lord Asvaldir]

The only issue is currently the wytch cult and coven units are a bit weak or overpriced, so kabalites tends to be the way most players go these days. Hopefully the coming codex will fix that though.

[Rhivan]

To tack on to overpriced things most of our gear is overcosted and underpowered. We just spam the few that do work, luckily they work 

[Lord_Caerolion]

The only issue is currently the wytch cult and coven units are a bit weak or overpriced, so kabalites tends to be the way most players go these days. Hopefully the coming codex will fix that though.

 

Yep, in an ideal world the Cult/Coven units would be more useful. I still think it's sad how Wyches, the amazing gladiatrixes that they are, were previously only used for punching vehicles to death with their haywire grenades. They were good tarpits, not so good at actually killing...

Hopefully our new Codex will fix this issue, and make them all equally useful again.

[brother_b]

I took the plunge, ordered some models (ebay), and bought the codex.

 

This will be my first official Xenos army, and I'm looking forward to a change in pace.

 

This comes right after the new FAQ, and so it has already shaken some things up with my other two armies (BA no more alpha strike, Admech no more quad onagers =/) at least for tournament settings.

 

Also, I was set on doing the patrol X 3 thing, and getting that sweet bonus to CP. It doesn't look like that's really the best way to go now (unless you're just starting and can only put together patrols).

 

That said, I'll probably run some Wych cult and definitely kaballites. I'll post photos as I get along with the army.

 

Cheers.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I think the 3x Patrol thing is still good if you want to bring all 3 branches of the army, otherwise you're probably better served with the larger detachments.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

The 3 patrols are good for smaller point games like 1k.  Once you hit the 1500-2000 range you're better off using at least one battalion.

 

I recently made some purchases as well. I have been accumulating DE stuff for the last year and have been waiting on this codex to fully take the plunge. There's no going back now...

[Slips]

for ~2k Games, going double battalion is very doable though if the Rule of Three beta rule sticks around, might force you to go:

• Kabal & Cult
• Kabal & Coven
• Cult & Coven

Instead of going:

• Double Cult
• Double Kabal
• Double Coven

Due, mainly, to our VERY limited HQ choices and Special Characters.

 

One should also keep in mind that the Merc units are the ones likely to get hit the hardest by the rule of three since you'd now be unable to run 4 MSU squads of Scourges with 4x Special/Heavies each.

[brother_b]

Yes I do love the scourges, I've picked up 3 squads of those with various weapons. I just think the models are amazing. I also purchased Kabalites, so I could run an archon with friends, as well as a crazy Archon Court.

 

Finally, a succubus, venom and some flying friends in the form of reavers is very appealing. I really like the look of the succubus model, and hopefully I can get me some razorwing flocks for cheap screens. Those are such random models, a bunch of birds. I thought it was a joke at first. Love it!

 

I do enjoy the covens, so eventually will field some of the monstrosities and wracks. Lots of choices, very cool.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The Dark Eldar definitely have one of the most amazing model ranges at the moment. Really, the only let-downs are the Ur-Ghul who always looks like he's hyuk-hyuk-ing at a joke he told, the dance-line that is units of Grotesques, and that Drazhar hasn't been updated yet. Everything else is basically perfect. Even the Archon model, although I can understand why many don't agree on that one.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I like the archon model, only problem is it's very mono-pose and given we need multiple archons in our army, really need to have a more customizable archon model. 

[Slips]

Honestly, I'm getting the Eldar Triumvirate and am probably going to end up using the Visarch and possibly Yvraine as Archons just so that I can have some visual diversity in the HQ Section.

 

It helps that they have swords for weapons aka Husk Blades and lets me use the minis themselves outside of Ynnari armies.

[brother_b]

I actually purchased an ur-ghul, it was so funny looking I had to get one for the court! I've been waiting for a couple of Sslyth, they look handy, and really love both the medusae and Lhamean models. I'm not sure which to choose. I plan on running my warlord and his court in the venom I picked up.

Whew, very excited about this army. I hope to spring it on my gaming group, showing up with my raiders to lay waste to the forces of the lesser beings.

Wow, it's easy to get into this whole Dark Eldar thing, and I mean, come on.

Any race named after this guy is amazing:

The Drew-CAR-ey...

Yeah, it's going to be a fun ride.

[Lord_Caerolion]

My own Court is basically all non-standard models. I've got an insectoid/crocodilian Ur-Ghul made from a Tyranid Warrior scuttling on 3 pairs of claws (originally going to count as two Ur-Ghuls due to its size), some Medusae made from psykers with "face-huggers" on them, two Orks counting as Sslyths, and deciding how to make a Lhamaean to use said Orks to make cordyceps-fungus-type poisons for the splinter weaponry (orkyceps fungus?). The Court is where you can really have fun with the Dark Eldar. After all, it's gauche to turn up to a raid with the same companions as another Archon, and that just won't do.

[Halandaar]

Honestly, I'm getting the Eldar Triumvirate and am probably going to end up using the Visarch and possibly Yvraine as Archons just so that I can have some visual diversity in the HQ Section.

 

It helps that they have swords for weapons aka Husk Blades and lets me use the minis themselves outside of Ynnari armies.

 

I've done the same; the Visarch has a very Archon-like feel, and Yvraine matches the descriptions of Lady Malys from previous books pretty much perfectly, so she fits too.