Tactica: Tzaangors Enlightened/Skyfires.

[Minsc]

I've just assembled 9 of these bad boys, and I gotta say: I love Tzaangors and I love disc's, and these model's look great. The amount of detail on the models and the footprint on the table... 

They're gonna look awesome on the gaming table once painted.

 

Fatecaster Greatbows or Divining Spears?

I find that Enlightened with bows are as different from Enlightened with Spears as Obliterator is from a Mutilator: They do entirely different things.
Bows are great against infantry and offer some utility, and spears are great against vehicles/fliers/monsters and even characters. (something our army tends to need.)

 

Don't ever go with chainswords; bows are still better att killing infantry since you can shoot, charge, then withdraw and shoot in the next turn because of Fly. (they still have 3 Str 4 attacks each, even with bows.)

You also have to pay a ludicrous amount extra for the ccw/pistol-sprues from GW if you didn't save the ones you got from buying Tzaangors.

 

I personally couldn't decide on what to give my 9 Enlightened that I decided to buy 9 more, so now can I run 9 with bows and 9 with spears.

 

Defensive powers?

Enlightened are fragile. 2 T4 Wounds yes, but with only a 5++ they'll quickly get moved down by anti-infantry weaponry.

Luckily we have ways to increase their survivability; Glamour of Tzeentch (-1 to hit) and Weaver of Fates (+1 to invuln) are both great powers to cast on our Enlightened. With -1 to hit and a 4++ they suddenly become quite hard to kill.

Enlightened do also have the maneuverability to utilize terrain to their advantage, if your table allows it. If you can hide, do it.

 

Offensive powers?

 

Having the <Tzeentch> and <Daemon> keywords means that Enlightened can benefit from two nice powers from the Dicipline of Tzeentch: Flickering Flames and Boon of Change.

 

Flickering Flames is so-so; it certainly helps, but if you have Daemon Engines (Fiends, Defilers) or actual Daemonic units in your list, this power may be better spent on them, since Flickering Flames doesn't really synergize well with Guided by Fate. Still, +1 to wound on the bow's isn't a bad thing. Does nothing for spears however.

Boon of Change is a spell I personally don't like due to the randomness of it, but it's actually quite good on Enlightened aiming to end up in combat. (Remember that even Enlightened with Bows are no slouches in combat, having 3 S4 attacks each at good WS and with Guided By Fate on 2 of them.)
+1 Attack is great in itself, and gets extra mileage out of GbF.
+1 Toughness is ok since it helps with their survivability. 

+1 Strength is the worst result as +1 Attack will always be better, but it's still more often than not something that will increase their damage output.

 

In addition to this we have Prescience and Warptime. 
With Prescience and a Shaman nearby, Guided by Fate will trigger on 4+, and Warptime makes them stupidly fast, allowing them to move 24" in one turn.

 

With that said, while these powers are good on Enlightened, they're more often than not better spent on other units elsewhere:

While it's nice to have GbF trigger on 4+, 1's to hit will still actually miss, so it's a "waste" in a way to give them Prescience, as a unit of SOT's or Rubrics etc. will gain more from it, and it's the same story with Warptime: How often do you actually need your Tzaangors to move 24"? Not very often I'd guess (+ it will probably make them move too far away from their crucial baby-sitter Shaman.)

 

Auras?

 

1) Always have a Tzaangor Shaman nearby. His +1 to hit aura is cruical for Guided by Fate as it will double the amount of auto-wounds dealt by the unit, and it makes the Tzaangors hit on 2+ instead of 3+. The Shaman can also be equipped with a power that will aid the Enlightened in some way (like Weaver of Fates or Glamour of Tzeentch)

 

2) While not as crucial as a Shamans +1 to hit aura, having a Daemon Prince with Wings or Exalted/Ahriman on Disc around for rerolling 1's to hit is certainly not a bad idea. Synergizes well with the shaman as well, since more potential hits = more potential autowounds.
As the Shaman, these can have powers that aid the Enlightened, and in the case of the Daemon Prince, he's one of our preciously few sources of powers from the Discipline of Tzeentch for that sweet Flickering Flames/Boon of Change.

 

Squadsize?

 

I think that large and small are both viable.

 

3 units of 3 is great for filling out a Brigade or Vanguard Detatchment, and min-size in general means morale won't be an issue and that your opponent might either spend too much firepower on them (overkilling them) or simply ignore them, allowing them to do their thing.

 

Larger units however are required for the Tzaangors to actually charge in and wipe out stuff on their own, plus it looks incredibly awesome with large units of angry goatmen riding disc's. Larger squads also get more mileage out of auras/powers and are easier to have within aura-range.

 

 

That's my take on our new unit. What are your thoughts on it?

 

Edit: Some math to show how various buffs affect our Enlightened with spears:
(purposedly not adding the 19th attack from the aviarch because I'm lazy.)

 

9 Enlightened with Spears attacking a T7 3+ target (unbuffed):

18 spear attacks, 3 autowounds, 9 hits, 3 more wounds for 6 wounds total, 3 after saves x2 = 6 wounds.

9 disc attacks, 6 hits, 2 wounds, 0,67 after saves

Total: 6,67 wounds. 

 

9 Enlightened with Spears attacking a T7 3+ target (+1 to hit from a shaman/prescience)

18 spear attacks, 6 autowounds, 9 hits, 3 more wounds for 9 wounds total, 4,5 after saves = 9 wounds.

9 disc attaacks, 7,5 hits, 2,5 wounds, 0.83 after saves.

Total: 9,83 wounds (+47% over unbuffed)

 

9 Enlightened with Spears attacking a T7 3+ target (+1 AP from a Mutalith)

18 spear attacks, 3 autowounds, 9 hits, 3 more wounds for 6 wounds total, 4 after saves = 8 wounds.
9 disc attacks, 6 hits, 2 wounds, 1 after saves.
Total: 9 wounds. (+35% over unbuffed)

 

9 Enlightened with Spears attacking a T7 3+ target (+1 to hit from a shaman/prescience and +1 AP from a Mutalith)

18 spear attacks, 6 autowounds, 9 hits, 3 more wounds for 9 wounds total, 6 after saves = 12 wounds.

9 disc attacks, 7,5 hits, 2,5 wounds, 1,25 after saves.
Total: 13,75 wounds (+106% over unbuffed)

9 Enlightened with Spears attacking a T7 3+ target  (+2 to hit from a shaman and from Prescience)

18 spear attacks, 9 autowounds, 6 hits, 2 more wounds for 11 wounds total, 5,5 after saves = 11 wounds.

9 disc attacks, 7,5 hits, 2,5 wounds, 0,83 after saves.

Total: 11,83 wounds. (77,5% over unbuffed)

 

9 Enlightened with Spears attacking a T7 3+ target  (+2 to hit from a shaman and from Prescience and +1 AP from a Mutalith.)

18 spear attacks, 9 autowounds, 6 hits, 2 more wounds for 11 wounds total, 7,33 after saves = 14,66 wounds.

9 disc attacks, 7,5 hits, 2,5 wounds, 1,25 after saves.

Total: 15,92 wounds. (+139% over unbuffed)

As we can see, only the Aura from the Shaman improves their performance noticeably (+47%) and more than what +1 AP from a Mutalith does (+35%), but toghether the two buffs are a classic case of something being more than the sum of it's parts, when they together increase the Enlighteneds performance by not 82% (47+35) but 106%! 

Prescience + Shaman Aura is by no means a waste, but +1 to hit and +1 AP is more beneficial than +2 to hit and +0 AP.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Minsc

[Sonoftherubric21]

I like the overview, one small problem:

 

Flicking flames is specifically on SHOOTING attacks only.  It cannot effect spears. Only bows, or funnily enough auto-pistols lmao. 

 

Boon of Mutation is overall a great spell to hit them with, any of the 3 options are great, strength being the weakest.  as T5 or +1 attack are fantastic on our melee-goats.

 

I plan on ending up with around 18 myself, 9 of each sounds about right. Thought process for one thing; Cast prescience on the spears, then warptime to slingshot them up the table.  Get in the enemies grill and wreck tanks, hit a unit like a truck, they swing back with whats left, you cycle of slaughter and wipe out the stragglers with the same stats as the first set of swings. 

Still hitting on 2's, and proccing GbF on a 5+.  str 5, d2, ap-1.  Pretty great. 

Things get Redonkulous once you toss in a Mutalith, that ap-2 buff would be ludicrous.

 

AS of this moment I only own 6 bows, but for their rather... shall we say measly? point cost they output LOTS of threat. those 6 shots have proven worth their weight in gold honestly for a very low buy-in cost.  Although I do keep underestimating opponent movement ability and see them get charged a fair bit, but thats more my fault then theirs lol. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Sonoftherubric21

[Minsc]

I like the overview, one small problem:

 

Flicking flames is specifically on SHOOTING attacks only.  It cannot effect spears. Only bows, or funnily enough auto-pistols lmao. 

 

Good catch, I got that backwards. I'll edit it shortly.

 

And yes, Enlightened with spears love the Mutalith. They can kill almost anything (bar superheavies) on the charge with -2 AP.

[Skerr]

Great write up on the OP and follow up comments.
starting small, two kits, 3 each
slowly add 2 kits until i get to 9 each.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Skerr

[Zodd1888]

I actually am considering going 3 sets of goats, 2 spears and 1 bows. 1 spear to dive/kill/die, another spear to guard the rear or take out of position units out, and one bow set to work in conjunction with the spears. I'll give this a shot if I go heavy Rubric/SOT, but generally I think 9/9 is the more likely I'll take in lists.

[Minsc]

Added some math for Enlightened with Spears. 

 

One buff is great, together they are insane.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Minsc

[Scammel]

I'm quite surprised that the consensus seems to be settling on spears. I've not yet actually played with the new book, but I would have assumed that the Sons were (ironically) pretty well placed for CC already, between Princes, Tzaangors and deployment/movement shenanigans. It seems that Skyfires provide very cost-effective ranged capability to an army that oddly enough struggles to put out a good volume of shots without looking to vehicles, outperforming Rubrics against many targets while boasting comparable resilience.

[MoGuy]

I'll play a squad of 6-9 Bowlightened supported by a Shaman. Their advantage over their spear armed brethren is that they can rush somewhere to hold an objective and still harass the enemy. 

[Raven1]

I wouldnt suggest the +1 to wound as you wasn't the nail that 6 on the to hit rolls. I would look to up thier survivability with weaver or glitter and prescience. Mutilith AP body is good but you then restrict the movement since the vortex beast us much slower. I would keep the spears in the deployment zone to counter charge and the bows out to hunt high toughness targets.

[Zodd1888]

Edit: Accidental duplication on mobile. Edited February 13, 2018 by Zodd1888

[Zodd1888]

 

Spears do quadrupled damage with D2 and Cycle of Slaughter when comparing to Bows. Spears require more investment and specificity for optimal use.

 

Bows need to hang on the edge of the board with Flickering and VotLW to survive and be successful. These units are pretty reactive as support to start or finish a unit off.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Zodd1888

[Raven1]

Replace flickering flames with prescience. You want all the bonuses on the to hit rolls to maximize the chance for auto wounds.

[Minsc]

Replace flickering flames with prescience. You want all the bonuses on the to hit rolls to maximize the chance for auto wounds.

 

Depends on the target though:

Vs. MEQ's, having +1 to hit and +1 to wound (Shaman + Flickering Fire) is better than having +2 to hit and +0 to wound (Shaman + Prescience), while against Rhinos and such, having +2 to hit is better than having +1 to hit and +1 to wound.

 

9 Enlightened Vs. MEQ's:

 

With +0 to hit, +1 to wound:

18 shots, 3 autowounds, 9 hits, 7,5 more wounds for a total of 10,5 wounds, 5,25 after saves. (5,25 with VotLW)

 

With +1 to hit, +0 to wound:

18 shots, 6 autowounds, 9 hits, 6 more wounds for a total of 12 wounds, 6 after saves. (6,75 with VotLW)

 

With +2 to hit, +0 to wound:

18 shots, 9 autowounds, 6 hits, 4 more wounds for a total of 13 wounds, 6,5 after saves. (7 with VotLW)

 

With +1 to hit, +1 to wound:

18 shots, 6 autowounds, 9 hits, 7,5 wounds for a total of 13,5 wounds, 6,75 after saves. (6,75 with VotLW)

 

9 Enlightened vs T6-T9 3+:

 

With +0 to hit, +1 to wound:

18 shots, 3 autowounds, 9 hits, 4,5 more wounds for a total of 7,5 wounds, 3,75 after saves. (4,5 with VotLW)

 

With +1 to hit, +0 to wound:

18 shots, 6 autowounds, 9 hits, 3 more wounds for a total of 9 wounds, 4,5 after saves. (5,25 with VotLW)

 

With +2 to hit, +0 to wound:

18 shots, 9 autowounds, 6 hits, 2 more wounds for a total of 11 wounds, 5,5 after saves. (6 with VotLW)

 

With +1 to hit, +1 to wound:

18 shots, 6 autowounds, 9 hits, 4,5 wounds for a total of 10,5 wounds, 5,25 after saves. (6 with VotLW)

 

It's not a really a big difference between +2 to hit/+0 to wound and +1 to hit/+1 to wound though, regardless if the target is a Tactical Marine or a Leman Russ.

 

Not sure if it's worth spending 1 CP for VotLW on a unit of 9 Enlightened though: With any sort of buff upp (be it +to hit or +to wound) it does very little, if anything at all. Less than 1 wound extra to be exact. I'd rather spend that 1 CP on giving VotLW to my Rubricae or Tzaangor herd.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Minsc

[Thousand Sons Sorcerer]

Unless I'm mistaken wouldn't you want at least 1 unit with auto pistol/chainswords? If nothing else for chaff removal. Plus they gain the most from Prescience + Shaman aura. Getting up to 7 auto wound on 4+ attacks per turn 1 from auto pistol, 3 from attacks, and 3 flmore from CoS.

 

@Minsc Are you going to add a section on useful Daemon auras?

Edited February 13, 2018 by Thousand Sons Sorcerer

[Minsc]

Unless I'm mistaken wouldn't you want at least 1 unit with auto pistol/chainswords? If nothing else for chaff removal. Plus they gain the most from Prescience + Shaman aura. Getting up to 7 auto wound on 4+ attacks per turn 1 from auto pistol, 3 from attacks, and 3 flmore from CoS.

 

@Minsc Are you going to add a section on useful Daemon auras?

No, pistols/chainswords are bad trough and trough.

 

Bows are better for chaff removal; 3 S4 attacks is usually enough and you have the option of shooting 2 S5 shots before charging in.

Bows also get the same mileage out of Guided by Fate: 2 melee attacks and 2 shots  vs. 3 melee attacks and 1 shot, except the stats are better (trading 1 S4 AP- and 1 S3 AP- attack for 2 S5 AP1 attacks.)

 

Yes technically you get one more with the pistols if you shoot it in melee as well but that's unlikely to happen as it requires either ongoing combat or the Enlightened being charged, neither is something that should happen.

In addition you have the utility of having 24" range with the bows.

 

 

As for Daemon auras, no. Mainly because I don't actually have a daemon codex (so don't have the rules) nor play with daemons in my TS-lists.

People are free to add their own thoughts to the tactica though.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Minsc

[hhhdan]

I have used 3 squads of 3 with bows to fill out a brigade and for 51 pts a squad they were doing consistent damage on any target that i used them against, from the ork boyz to mortarion...

 

I have the herald with the daemonspark warlord trait (mostly to buff 30 pink horrors to 90 shots S4, +1 to wound and re-roll 1s to wound), Shaman (mainly to buff a 30 man tzaangor squad that deep strikes, warptimes and charges) and a thousand sons Daemon Prince (as he is just awesome).

 

They seem very good for their points, but also really fragile. That is a reason i'm not sure if i want to use the spears or bigger squads of bows. They were mostly surviving due to the opponent being forced to deal with bigger infantry threats, like big squads of tzaangors, horrors and flamers deep striking right infront of them).

 

I fear that if i use a big squad of them, it will paint a big target on them and they will actually do less impact in the game than they would in smaller squads. But I will definitely try it, as I am curious about what they can do when buffed to the max :)

[Thousand Sons Sorcerer]

Tzaangors and Daemon Auras

 

HQs

 

Lord of Change/Karios Fateweaver

 

Higher LD for your Enlightened not useless but not great, but then the LoC model is gorgeous so if you have been looking for a reason to put him on the table, or to buy one and pretend you going to put it on the table just so you can paint it there you go.

 

ChangeCaster

 

+1 to S, money for whatever flavor Enlightened you bring. Spears become S6 great for killing T3 Characters. Gowts become S5 allowing them to put noticible hurt on T4 models in close combat. Also buffs the Shaman, any Sorcs on Discs, the DP, Daemon Engines, Magnus, and probably more that I cant remember. They are also cheap, the down side is they are slow compared to most of these units. Its a budget take, but not prefered.

 

Fluxmaster

 

Same as above on a Disc, for only a little more in points, with the increased movement they can keep up with everything they want to buff in our army. This is your auto include if you have the points to stick him in your army, even if you have to pay 1 cp to do it.

 

Fateskimmer

 

The 3rd and final version of the +1S HQs. Most expensive, and worth every point. Double the W, higher T, more attacks, trades 1 S4 ap- attack for 6 S6 ap-3 D2 attacks (thats not including the aura) 2" more movement then the Flux master. Very good for double the points of the Changecaster.

 

Changeling

 

6+++ save not exactly useless, but he is slow and you want to take advantage of the enlightened speed on discs. If you're bringing a unit of enlightened to sit in the back and shoot a bit he might be worth it. Other than that too much of a restriction on the unit.

 

Warlord Traits

 

Warptether

 

Reroll Morale tests, not bad but not good. Again, it can be useful if you have a morale problem, but there is a much better option.

 

Daemonspark

 

Reroll 1s to WOUND in the shooting phase. Clutch your Gowts with Flikering Fire and VotLW plus rerolling 1s to wound, and auto wounding are going to cut through everything. Its also a 9" aura so put it on a model with a big footprint and you can easily buff 3-4 units.

 

Summoning or Detachment

 

Given the option and no real prefrence for either you should always go with a detachment. Ill get into why in a second. First summoning.

 

Part the advantage of summoning is the hyper flexibility. If you simply want to summon a change caster into the area where you know enlightened are going to be operating, then you can save some points and his movement is less of an issue. Overall there are some very good advantages to summoning they mostly boil down to saving points and being more flexible as an army.

 

Detachment

 

Bringing a detachment does cost more points, and is not as flexible has some extremely good advantages. First off you get access to the stratagems which summoning does not allow. And there are a few stratagems that you should be extremely interested in as a Thousand Sons player. They're is also the locus of trickery which tzaangor shamans and enlightened benefit from not to mention numerous other units.

 

Stratagems

 

Denziens the Warp

Need to deep strike an extra unit? This can help you with that it only costs 1 CP and ups our ability to deep strike one more unit giving us three rather than 2. Especially helpful to Enlightened who might need a speed bump unit to protect them, or you can deep strike a change caster to help with his low movement, to help save some points.

 

Locus of conjuration

 

This stratagem is worth its weight in gold to our army. It mainly affect tzaangor shamans. What does it do? Reroll all psychic tests within 6 in of this model. I put this in here not because it really affects enlightened but at the same time it does. It basically ensures any kind of buff you want to put on them via spells is going to go off. Even without that on a larger scale in our army it is extremely useful I don't think I need to explain why.

 

Demonic Allegiance

 

The tzeentch demonic Allegiance ability is called locus of trickery. It affects all models with the demon keyword within 9 in of any character that is in the Daemon detachment. You roll two dice at the beginning of the fight phase take the lowest and when your opponent rolls anything that matches the die on there to hit roll it automatically misses. Both types of enlightened will benefit from this as it makes them more durable in close combat, and because it emanates from any character you can use it on one of the versions of change caster and get a durability boost and an offensive Boost from a single model.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Thousand Sons Sorcerer

[Skerr]

Great summary TS Sorc. I am really enjoying these tactica threads.

 

It is great seeing the community sharing ideas on how to effectivly use units/ other resources.

[Ahzek451]

Im surprised more folks have not dived into the daemons book for tools. Correct me if i am wrong, but if you have the right keywords, you can use daemons of tzeentch strategems on sons right? An exalted on disk using locus of conjuration?

[Thousand Sons Sorcerer]

Im surprised more folks have not dived into the daemons book for tools. Correct me if i am wrong, but if you have the right keywords, you can use daemons of tzeentch strategems on sons right? An exalted on disk using locus of conjuration?

No they FAQed it. Only units with the Daemon faction keyword can have the demon stratagems used on them but we can still benefit from the aura.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Thousand Sons Sorcerer

[Raven1]

Psychic powers and auras etc are good to go. Just the strategems got FAQ'd something about deepstriking Primarchs being too powerful, but not shadowswords.

[Ahzek451]

Ah, well there goes that.