Adeptus Custodes FW beta rules

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's a single mortal wound per 6. Probably is a bit too weak though, especially compared to the devastation rolling a 6 causes in 30k. Either number it's attacks and strength up to the old levels (6 and 8 respectively) and keep the mortal wound mechanic, or pump up the damage potential as suggested.

 

Also if really like to know if they plan on adding a heliothermic rule to all the weapons that had it. Kind of the defining feature on the bolters and cannons

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Helix, that's some good Intel. The Coronus, being mostly a transport, really won't shine until facing a shooting army. Keep us posted on how game 2 goes.

[Stormxlr]

Guys don't forget to email all your thoughts to FW!

[dtse]

Tbh with bikers and ability to deepstrike I just don’t see a role in Custodes for big expensive transports

[SkimaskMohawk]

It works fine in 30k if you use a couple of them, but that's a combination of being way more survivable (las cannons needing a 5 or 6 do anything and a flat 4+ to stop it as opposed to needing 3s to do anything with a 5+ to prevent damage and then 1/6 wounds stopped) all for almost 2/3 of the points.

 

I get that there isn't supposed to be annoyingly hard to kill units any more, but a transport can't be as expensive as guilliman and not even be a good option.

[Honda]

Tbh with bikers and ability to deepstrike I just don’t see a role in Custodes for big expensive transports

 

 

*cough, artillery, *cough

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

My email to fw regarding the dread:

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought 

2 games, adeptus custodes faction only

dreadspear and the achillus in general.

The dreadspear is simply overcosted and the mortal wound ability is underwhelming for what a big deal it should be. Point cost of dread too high, same issue dreadknights have.

Suggestion: Dreadspear make it a single shot. The random shots adds time and costs that feel overly random and weak. Make the to-wound of a 6 a 2d6 damage (minimum 3 still) instead of a mortal wound. The mortal wound is silly. The AP needs to be looked at as well. Same ap as a spear in the hands of a custodes? Keep it but Add one attack to the dread's profile, a dread should have more attacks than wardens or allarus. 

Drop cost of dreadspear by 25 to make up for removal of random las cannon hits. This keeps the unit still competitive, and highly priced, implementing all of the above would make him a hard choice vs more allarus or bikes.

[Ishagu]

I think the Dreadspear should be 2 shots, D6 damage. Same profile as a Las Talon.

 

The best thing about this dread is actually having some decent shooting. When the Galataus comes out, I think that should have more of a melee focus and survivability.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I think the Dreadspear should be 2 shots, D6 damage. Same profile as a Las Talon.

 

The best thing about this dread is actually having some decent shooting. When the Galataus comes out, I think that should have more of a melee focus and survivability.

Fair enough! You try it yet? I can test that one today.

[Ishagu]

I've used it in a small game. It's ok. The Custodes need reliable firepower.

The Achillus needs 5 Attacks, the Dreadspear shooting profile should be the same as a Las-Talon, and the point cost needs a slight drop. 10/15 perhaps, if the other changes take place.

 

The Achillus is the closest beta unit to one that's actually playable. If they keep the rule in place limiting these to one per detachment then the Calidius Tanks needs to drop to 240 points.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Really depends if they're trying to prevent as much disparity between 30k and 40k units as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if they just axed the points; theyre for sure scared of recreating 30k broken custodes, but currently priced things a bit too high

[Honda]

The best thing about this dread is actually having some decent shooting. When the Galataus comes out, I think that should have more of a melee focus and survivability.

 

 

It would be nice to see something like a 3++ for the big shield and 2 x S, AP -2, D3 damage?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I want to see the galatus be able to shred infantry. Additional attack for each model in cc range? Use of sword flamer in CC? Yuppp.

[General Strike]

Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.

Me thinks this would be overly complicated and probably busy up his rules to much.

 

A 4++ with -1 to hit from shield would be beast though especially if it could stack with banner. How thematic would a dread with a massive shield charging in front of his brothers be deflecting fire away and tanking the strongest hits?

[MysticTemplar]

 

Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.

Me thinks this would be overly complicated and probably busy up his rules to much.

 

A 4++ with -1 to hit from shield would be beast though especially if it could stack with banner. How thematic would a dread with a massive shield charging in front of his brothers be deflecting fire away and tanking the strongest hits?

That would make the shield work like it does in the 30k rules, which would be nice.

 

Worth noting that weapons having damage carry over does already exist in 8th - The Deathwing Knight sergeant's Flail of the Unforgiven does this.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

K soooo ended up against a deldar army.

Our transport goes boom real quick. Didn't even get  a turn to use it. They just swooped in with a gagillion of those lance shots and murdered it dead. It didn't explode at least...

Yeah when enemy goes first it really doesn't do anything. If you go first it's really to many points to justify. I think I am backinto the drop it 100 points category. But then I am feeling salty. 

Meanwhile the caladius is outclassed in every way by a tantalus besides accuracy of shots. It can transport and has a better invul save and more wounds. 

Why is our tank the same toughness and save as a tantalus (with worse invul)? What sort of madness is this? 

I guess chapter approved bumped the tantalus up 50 points but damn yo for 75 points you can haul so much nastiness shoot a ton dakka the crap outta things and drop off murderes. 

But yeah...I digress. Caladius is a good 30 points to high and the gun needs 2D and the invul needs a 5++. 

What about instead of a +1 to hit hard to hit fliers it get's re-rolls against things with fly key word? Better? Worse?

We also really need the anti tank version to get rules. We are lacking that super hard. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

The sicaran just ignored modifiers if it targets fly, copy that

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Final game VS tau at 2k. Hammer head with the character and a some of the ranged suits with some screens of kroot and some commander spam thrown. Then a ton of breachers popping out of everything. 

I had 3X3bikes, wardens in coronus, the achillus, and bike shield captain squad with some troops thrown in and allarus with banner of -1 to hit.

The cornous took some wounds during his first tun but survived this time due to his inability to hit with much. Idk if it's just that tau in general don't feel good but he just could not output enough damage to deal with 11 bikes shredding his troops and then making it across the board so fast. 

Dread didn't get to do much he took a very bad hit early on from the Farsight guy. Dropped like 10 wounds turn 1? Oh well. That was bound to happen to something. 

This was a case where the coronus was useful. He had so many units blocking teleporting action that I just dropped my banner during deployment. I don't think he could have done much to the warden but the movement was at least nice when there are lots of teleport screens near objectives.  Still feels oppressively untanky without a 5+. I will still say 35-50 points over cost MINIMUM.

[Ishagu]

I've proxied my Raider as a Coronus now in a test against Marines, Chaos and IG.

 

I think with a 2+ save, the Raider is more survivable as most anti tank weapons are AP-3. There's a real case for the invul to be a 5++.

The Anti Tank fire is also lacking, I really missed the 4 Lascannons and Hunter Killer missile.

 

With those negatives out of the way it's pretty great in other ways. The movement stats are spot on, as is the profile degradation. 6 models instead of 5 is also really useful. 5 Wardens + Vexilla or Shield Captain is really good to move up alongside the Bikes.

 

Price the Coronus at 345 with a 5++ and I'll be happy. Maybe a little lower as any model like this will be a really big target.

[Charlo]

Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.

 

Deathwing Knights & Death guard have weapons that do this already, so there is a precedent.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Final game I played yesterday: 

VS Nids, they had lots of zoans a 5 man hive squad some huge venomthrope group and tons of different giblies and 2 tervigon.. 

The 2 caladius did a number on them turn one, I rolled stupid hot for the d3 damage and dropped 4 out of 5 of his hive guards which was a massive boon, and dropped 2 or 3 zoans. Averaged out I think I only would have killed 2 or 3 of the hive guard as, I just rolled stupid good. I only failed 1 wound roll with a re-roll from Valoris. Was trying the back field buff mander..he's to manypoints but that re-roll wound is juicy. Gman would do it better but that's a different issue. 

List was simply 1 batallion bare min everything with a caladius, then a vanguard with valoris, 2 different banners a few allarus and another caladius. Two caladius was pretty good, though once his nids made it into cc with my limited troops they were tied up basically all game as a tervagon spawned more. He won on objectives but that is some opressive fire power for nids to deal with when they can't lock it down. 

This list likely would never have worked with anything that had ranged anti-tank to many points and like I said I lost on objectives due to having almost no foot print. 

[TheHarpDaddy]

Had my first game with 40k Custodes today in a 1500pt game vs Chaos. We used ITC missions. 

 

My list was: 

 

*PATROL*

 

Shield Captain w/ Sentinel Warblade 

 

Vexilla Magnifica 

 

3 Custodian Guard 

- 2 w/ Guardian Spears 

- 1 w/ Warblade & Storm Shield 

 

3 Custodian Guard 

- 2 w/ Guardian Spears 

- 1 w/ Warblade & Storm Shield 

 

3 Custodian Guard 

- 2 w/ Guardian Spears 

- 1 w/ Warblade & Storm Shield 

 

Caladius Grav-Tank 

 

Coronus Grav-Carrier 

 

*VANGUARD* 

 

Inquisitor 

- Terrify Psychic Power 

 

Acolyte 

 

Acolyte 

 

Acolyte 

 

------ 

 

Not entirely sure on what exactly his list was but he had 2* 3 obliterators, 2* 3 plasma bike squads, 30 cultists in a blob, some marines, rhinos and was alpha legion. I played pretty conservatively at first which worked to my advantage, making the most of the Magnifica's ability (which was amazing). Because we were using ITC missions my opponent focussed almost all of his firepower on trying to remove my guardian squads from the board, which allowed my tanks to run rampant. Ended up a victory to my opponent, however it was a relatively close game with some great moments. 

 

The FW tanks really have the ability to shine. I think with a 5++ they'll almost certainly be worth their points - they have great shooting, great accuracy and the fly keyword just makes them incredibly versatile. Combined with a -1 to hit and they really can stick around and do some work, or they can take the heat of the rest of your force. Really liked them! 

[TheFinisher4Ever]

I finally had a chance to try out the Achillus on Saturday. I played against a Khorne Demon list. Here are my thoughts;

• The Lastrum Storm Bolters are so much better than the Heavy Flamers that I will honestly never think about taking the Flamers. In 7th, these were Infernus Incenerators, not Heavy Flamers. Would making them a unique weapon with more punch be a better option? Maybe. But I think the primary issue is that Lastrum Storm Bolters are too cheap. Assault Bolters, for instance, cost 10 points. For double the price of the LSB, the Assault Bolter gains 1 extra shot at 13"-18" but has 1 less shot at up to 12".
• The 6+++ is pretty nice on a model with this many wounds. My Achillus survived a charging Blood Thirster by rolling a couple feel no pains.
• Impaling Lunge feels weak as hell. It kinda helps, but it feels far too weak for a giant robot with a 12' spear. That said, the minimum 3 damage on the spear is awesome.
• The Las Pulsar was rather meh as well. I took some wounds off of a skull cannon with it but that's about it. It needs to be buffed.
• All said, I think he needs a price drop or a buff. You can get a unit of 4 axe wardens for 23 points more and they put out way more attacks, and a better invuln save. I think buffing the Las Pulsar would give him more of a purpose. He needs to be solidified in his role as Tank Hunter. Improve Impaling Lunge and the Las Pulsar, then drop the chassis price a bit and bump up the price on the Storm Bolters to bring him back to where he is now.

[kombatwombat]

I had a crack with the Achillus yesterday using the following modified rules:

 

- Impaling Lunge changed to rolls of a 6 to hit are 2D6 damage, still with the minimum 3 per die

- 5 Attacks base

- +1 Invul (essentially The Emperor’s Chosen bonus - it’s a Dreadnought so I figured it should get Custodes equivalent of Chapter Tactics)

 

Deep struck with the Stratagem, fired the Las Pulsar into a Hellbrute for all of 1 damage. I did make the charge though (with a little help from a CP reroll) into a Land Raider. The Overwatch hit/wounded with one Lascannon, which was thankfully stopped by the armour save (no need for an improved Invul when you roll a 6 to save!) and one Heavy Bolter, which went through. 5 attacks, rolled a 6 to hit, and wounded with it, and... it was his turn to roll a 6 to save. The other four attacks mauled the Land Raider for something like 9 or 10 wounds

 

Opponent’s turn, the Land Raider dumps some Terminators and runs away. A squad of buffed Havocs with autocannons and Veterans of the Long War (I think) let rip and by the Emperor, that hurt - a better Invul doesn’t protect you from AP-1 weaponry. With the Achillus left on 4 wounds, he fails the charge with the Terminators so it lives another turn to charge the Hellbrute. Now the Impaling Lunge goes off for a nasty 9 damage or so - but honestly it’s wasted as three attacks with the Dreadspear went through so the Hellbrute was dead anyway. A potshot with one of the Terminators’ combi-meltas and a failed 4++ later and it’s good night Achillus.

 

Overall I think it did pretty well - about as well as my Relic Contemptor usually does, so imma go ahead and email FW about the changes I used!