Which fallen primarch has the greatest potential...

[b1soul]

for redemption?

 

There's rumour that one loyal son will go traitor and one fallen son will return to the Emperor's light.

 

Magnus seems like the least absurs choice...but maybe I'm missing something?

 

I'm reading The Palatine Phoenix and I kinda wish it would be Fulgrim

[foamy248]

(Insert joke about the Lion being a traitor here)

 

I reckon it'd be awesome if Alpharius (if he's still alive post-PoD)/Omegon backstabbed the Ruinous Powers and rejoined the Imperium... somehow. It's highly unfeasible but it'd be awesome imo :).  

[DuskRaider]

In the newest 40K Alpha Legion it's revealed that

Omegon may still be alive, is still loyal to the Emperor, but has lost faith in the original mission and control over a portion of the Legion itself.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Not sure which is the most logical one, if possible at all, for a fallen primarch to be redeemed. I'm going to assume you are referring the daemon primarchs, granted, the ones we know for sure are alive are the daemon ones. The ones who didn't ascend like Kurze and Alpharius, we more or less know they're dead. OK, it's not fully confirmed, but we all know the basic legends of their demise, Alpharius in particular is considered "confirmed". Sadly still leaves Omegon around.

 

If it were to happen, and if it was a daemon primarch who wants to be redeemed, well, my love for the TTS universe aside, Magnus seems to be the most rational one compared to the others with mercurial moods, and we all know that Magnus TRIED to stay loyal but was outwitted by that tentacle monster Tzeetch. Given his tragic roots, I would love to see him manage to give the middle finger to Tzeetch and finally did what he should have done so long ago: return to his father's side as the ultiimate psychic defender of the Imperium.

 

On the reverse side, i just don't want it to be Russ. Especially as a giant furry.

 

I hope I don't get flamed for this, but Vulkan is another possible candidate for "falling". Mainly because GW being ridiculously grimdark and may want to further screw the only primarch with genuine compassion in his hearts.

 

For the rest, chances are about equal to me if they fall for one reason or another. Except Sanguinus. Don't talk bad about golden hawk boy, I dare you!

[SchultzChaos]

Any source for that rumour?

[Quixus]

If it were to happen, and if it was a daemon primarch who wants to be redeemed, well, my love for the TTS universe aside, Magnus seems to be the most rational one compared to the others with mercurial moods, and we all know that Magnus TRIED to stay loyal but was outwitted by that tentacle monster Tzeetch. Given his tragic roots, I would love to see him manage to give the middle finger to Tzeetch and finally did what he should have done so long ago: return to his father's side as the ultiimate psychic defender of the Imperium.

You could say something similar about Horus being tricked by Lorgar, poisoned on Davin and so on. Too bad he is dead as a doornail. Then again Rowboat Girlyman isn't that dead and some Magos improved upon the Emperor's design for His legions.

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Quixus

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

If it were to happen, and if it was a daemon primarch who wants to be redeemed, well, my love for the TTS universe aside, Magnus seems to be the most rational one compared to the others with mercurial moods, and we all know that Magnus TRIED to stay loyal but was outwitted by that tentacle monster Tzeetch. Given his tragic roots, I would love to see him manage to give the middle finger to Tzeetch and finally did what he should have done so long ago: return to his father's side as the ultiimate psychic defender of the Imperium.

You could say something similar about Horus being tricked by Lorgar, poisoned on Davin and so on. Too bad he is dead as a doornail. Then again Rowboat Girlyman isn't that dead and some Magos improved upon the Emperor's design for His legions.

 

 

Let's hope GW doesn't jump the shark by resurrecting characters who are dead as doornails, like Horus and Sanguinus. Everyone else whose body isn't completely destroyed is still fair game for resurrection or redemption.

 

As long as we're on the topic of redemption, perhaps ALL traitor primarchs are still capable of good in them, since none of them started particularly bad, not even Kurze. Therefore all of them have an excuse to be redeemed. Even that damnable Lorgar who arguably started the mess in the first place. Though I think he needs to be granted a PERMANENT DEATH for his idiocity.

[m_r_parker]

I find it hard to think that a traitor Primarch will turn loyal, especially since the majority have ascended to daemonhood (I can’t think of anywhere where a Daemon has been demoted back to mortality), and others have been killed (Horus and Curze). I can’t even remember if Alpharius/Omegron got promoted to daemonhood...

 

I can’t shake the feeling that this rumour may turn out false.

[Warpmiss]

Due to the nature of Daemon Princes, it would require some really good reason for one of the Primarchs that ascended to daemonhood to become a loyalist again. If I am not mistaken, the only one that isn't a DP is Omegon so if we assume that DPs can't turn back, he'd be the only viable option.

 

If we don't asume that, who could it be? I'd definitely love to see Magnus as the one that is redeemed (poor guy was basically forced into joining the Heresy after all). But that would rob Tzeentch of his Primarch. I personally like the idea that each of the 4 Chaos Gods has their own Primarch so if Magnus were to somehow be free of Tzeentch, I would hope someone else would take his place. Out of the other Primarchs, the only ones that we don't know for certain who they are aligned to would be: Lorgar, Perturabo and Omegon. Lorgar and the Word Bearers seem to worship the whole pantheon so I am going to leave Lorgar out. The way I see it, I think both Omegon and Pert could be good choices for Tzeentch: Pert always designing new stuff (machines and stragegies I imagine) and Omegon always sneaky and scheeming. The 'Just as planned' meme comes to mind, so I'd have to say Omegon, again.

 

I'm also thinking Perturabo could be the one to leave Chaos, he never liked that anyway. But, unlike Magnus, he was a willing participant since the beginning of the Heresy and wasn't a big fan of the Imperium so I also find it unlikely that he would turn loyal again. Specially considering he never believed in gods before, he'd probably scoff at the idea of the Emperor being considered a God now.

[StruManChu]

Ignoring the 40k rumour and just looking at the 30k context - 

 

Horus - No. Maybe earlier in the Heresy, if the Emperor could have been pulled away from the Webway, gone to Isstvan V and found a way to speak honestly to Horus and find a way to rein in his ambition. But no, not since Molech. 

 

Mortarion - Possibly? There are various points where Morty realises that the crowd he's joined don't share his hatred of the mystical. He's probably a similar kind of puritanical to Dorn in that regard, so maybe that could have swung it for him

 

Angron - Nope. Just nope. Still mad about Nuceria. Will never happen. 

 

Lorgar - See above. He's the high priest of Chaos, man. Probably got an awesome pimp cane and everything. He's not giving that up.

 

Curze - Maybe. I need more information on him, because I feel like there's a disconnect between Curze the Bringer of Imperial Justice and Curze the psychotic visionary immediately after Isstvan. I guess the visions of his death really changed his perspective, which is not unreasonable. The death of Nostromo is awful, obviously, but it's the act of someone literally raining down justice on a corrupt world. I'd love to see the gap in between Nostromo and Isstvan V covered to see what brought this change around because Curze, on the face of it, should have absolutely hammered the traitors. I want to see more about why he didn't. "The Imperium's corrupteded!" isn't enough.

 

Alpharius/Omegon - I'm not sure they were ever really 'loyal' to the Emperor/Imperium to begin with, so I don't know that you can say that they're coming back? They're by far the most mercenary of the Primarchs and Legions, so while it may suit them to work towards the Imperium's goals, they're doing it because it will benefit them at some point. That's not loyalty.

 

Perturabo - I doubt it. Too much bad blood, at least from Perty's perspective. Plus, he says at the end of Angel Exterminatus that he'll only trust Horus from this point forward, so that's pretty clear. That said, the Iron Warriors I feel are the best candidate for a Legion becoming loyal again, during the Heresy anyway.

 

Fulgrim - Ol' snake hips is having too much fun to come back to a secular society. Nope.

 

Magnus - Again, similar to Horus. If the Emperor had perhaps been more open, I doubt very much that Magnus would have turned, marked by Tzeentch or no. The fact that he spent a good few years deliberating about which side to join, and even at points aided the loyalists (not spoiling), shows how torn he was/is. It's not impossible*.

 

*Well, it is, because the story's been written, but, you know... 

[Gorgoff]

Wrong subforum, I say.

[Kelborn]

Only Primarch I can think of would be Omegon.

 

A turning Daemon Primarch? Never ever.

 

The closest one could be Magnus but after reading about his shattered soul, etc. this has become quite impossible.

[SickSix]

Magnus.

 

He was arrogant and screwed up, but didn't choose Heresy.

 

And He is the only other being that could power the Astronomican.

[Zeratil]

I would love for it to be true, and for it to be Magnus - it's a story idea I've liked for a long time. I don't think it could/will be a daemon primarch however as I don't see how a daemon primarch could survive turning their back on their patron god. Maybe as some sort of 'heroic' sacrifice and a middle finger to Chaos. For example how I would do Magnus' redemption would be him backstabbing Tzeentch (and most of his Legion - again) throwing himself on the Golden Throne/sacrificing his psychic essence at the very last minute during some final battle for Terra, giving the Emperor the chance to join the fight in some form and maaaybe win the day for the Imperium*. Outside of that Magnus is too far gone now, especially with the lore from the later HH/Ahriman/Dark Imperium books.


*Indeed this is my 'head-canon' ending for the setting...

Edited February 14, 2018 by Zeratil

[SickSix]

I would love for it to be true, and for it to be Magnus - it's a story idea I've liked for a long time. I don't think it could/will be a daemon primarch however as I don't see how a daemon primarch could survive turning their back on their patron god. Maybe as some sort of 'heroic' sacrifice and a middle finger to Chaos. For example how I would do Magnus' redemption would be him backstabbing Tzeentch (and most of his Legion - again) throwing himself on the Golden Throne/sacrificing his psychic essence at the very last minute during some final battle for Terra, giving the Emperor the chance to join the fight in some form and maaaybe win the day for the Imperium*. Outside of that Magnus is too far gone now, especially with the lore from the later HH/Ahriman/Dark Imperium books.

 

 

*Indeed this is my 'head-canon' ending for the setting...

Now that makes this a lot more plausible. Instead of becoming loyal again, one receives redemption in death.

 

Magnus sacrificing himself to give his psychic might to the Big E could earn him absolution but cost him everything. Thats would be a fitting end.

 

Sadly I don't ever see GW actually doing that.

[Memento Of Prospero]

None. They some maybe be redeemable around the events of the Heresy, but 10,000 years of funk in the warp will get them beyond the point of redemption.

[Kelborn]

Magnus will never turn.

 

Everything good in him was absorbed by the Crimson King, the daemon part of him, making him a full Tzeentch pledged servant.

[Lord Marshal]

Omegon never ascended and his loyalties were already dubious. He's about the only viable candidate. 

 

The rest of them are too far gone by virtue of their Daemonic ascension. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't.

 

Oh and Kurze, but he's suffering a bad case of dead.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I haven't read ADB's Night Lords stuff, but does it convey if the Night Lords themselves saw the body of Kurze before chasing after the assassin? If we rely on the classic story of him allowing the assassin to kill him, then I would say he isn't confirmed KIA yet.

[ShadowCore67]

As others have said, Omegon makes the most sense. Especially with GW posting that image with the 5 different theories about Alpha Legion, and the last theory being that they are on a secret mission for the big E.

[Guest]

Is this for real 40k or 30k? Little confused about the subforum and the question.

 

I am putting my vote as Omegron. The rest of the traitor primarchs are puppets for the chaos God's. As for the Loyalist, Lion seems the obvious choice but is predictable. I want to say maybe Khârn, Russ, or Dorn may resist Guillimans choice and refuse the Imperial Cult. Thus the Imperial Cult branding him a traitor, while Guilliman still entertains the cult.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I haven't read ADB's Night Lords stuff, but does it convey if the Night Lords themselves saw the body of Kurze before chasing after the assassin? If we rely on the classic story of him allowing the assassin to kill him, then I would say he isn't confirmed KIA yet.

 

They don't just see the body, the assassin tries to run off with his head, before Talos earns his title. Curze is 100% dead and gone.

 

As others have said though, Daemon Primarchs don't go traitor to their God, they either continue doing what made them a Daemon Prince, or they get turned into a Spawn, or they get annihilated entirely like Horus was. The God has complete control over every aspect of their Princes. As for Loyalists going Traitor, I don't want to open that can of worms, as people are basically going to riot no matter who's picked.

 

No good will come of this.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Actually I'm beginning to think this is the wrong forum too. Should be in 40K, not 30K. 

 

@ Caerolion - Thanks for confirmation, so he's dead as a doornail. Make sense to equalize with the two dead loyalist primarchs. Horus and Kurze for traitors, Sanguinus and Ferrus for loyalists.

[foamy248]

I hope I don't get flamed for this, but Vulkan is another possible candidate for "falling". 

 

 

 

I highly doubt Magnus will turn (Crimson King shenanigans aside) - GW will capitalise on a 'turned' primarch with a model, broken rules etc. Magus has already been covered. I still like Omegon turning (but being highly disillusioned with both Chaos and the Imperium, and going renegade). 

[Kasper_Hawser]

LOL, I didn't even notice my own pun. Thanks.