Which fallen primarch has the greatest potential...

[Spinsanity]

Of the loyalists, the one I would most like to see turn against Guilliman / the Imperium is Dorn. Not that he's the one I find most likely to do it, just the one I'd like to turn his back on the broken imperium.

 

Wasn't he very anti-Lectio Divinatus? Wouldn't he abhoar the current prevalence of superstition as much as Sigismund's sons abhoar the witch?

 

I want Dorn to come back, turn his back to Guilliman's Imperium Secundus Tertius and reinstate the Great Crusade. #BackinTemplarBlack-style, or something.

[Charlo]

Of the loyalists, the one I would most like to see turn against Guilliman / the Imperium is Dorn. Not that he's the one I find most likely to do it, just the one I'd like to turn his back on the broken imperium.

 

Wasn't he very anti-Lectio Divinatus? Wouldn't he abhoar the current prevalence of superstition as much as Sigismund's sons abhoar the witch?

 

I want Dorn to come back, turn his back to Guilliman's Imperium Secundus Tertius and reinstate the Great Crusade. #BackinTemplarBlack-style, or something.

Yeah, no...

 

Guilliman already has another great crusade that has already been going on for 100 years. Plus I'm pretty sure Dorn's feelings towards the broken imperium, chapters and all that Jazz were eliminated in the Iron Cage. That is where he and his legion purged their misgivings.

[Dhar'Neth]

If I remember right Lectio Divinatus (or whatever it’s called) is Lorgars work, right? If so, it would be funny if after hundreds of years of contemplation Lorgar realised, that the Heresy was a trial of faith by emperor and.. switched sides!

[Amun Ra]

Any source for that rumour?

Would like to know the source for this too

[Withershadow]

I haven't read ADB's Night Lords stuff, but does it convey if the Night Lords themselves saw the body of Kurze before chasing after the assassin? If we rely on the classic story of him allowing the assassin to kill him, then I would say he isn't confirmed KIA yet.

Yes, the assassin tosses Kurze’s severed head at their pursuers at one point. He is as dead as Ferrus.

[rendingon1+]

40k related thread. Should be moved/closed.

[slitth]

I can see Omegon coming back as a good guy that no one really trust.

And Dorn becoming a bad guy against his will.

 

See spoiler for my outlanding Rogal Dorn plot. Warning Praetorian of Dorn spoiler!

 

In Praetorian of Dorn. Dorn killed Alpharius after cutting of his hands.
When Dorn is lost all that is found are his hands.
This could be the hands of Alpharius left behind to as a hint that the Alpha Legion has claimed Dorn as a compensation for the death of Alpharius.
The bad Alpha Legion has then spend a lot of time brainwashing Dorn to be their primarch.

 

I know that is a fare out plot, but its at least a little bit better than a daemon primarch turning god or a confirmed death primarch coming back.

And it would give the Imperial Fists and their successors something new to crusade about.

[Marshal Loss]

It's not going to happen.

 

 

Any source for that rumour?

Would like to know the source for this too

 

 

It's a baseless rumour. Somehow I don't think 2016 BoLS articles are a credible source of information. The Daemon Primarchs are irredeemable, and the simple truth is that GW is not going to bring a Primarch back and then make them switch sides when they already have existing fanbases built around their loyalties and history.

 

And like others have said, this should be in a 40k forum (where threads have already discussed this subject), not here.

[Slips]

Moved to Amicus since this thread doesn't really deal with 30k Specific things beyond "Primarchs".

 

Redemption for Primarchs can only happen after they've fallen which is pretty much after the Heresy and thus outside the bounds of the AoD forum.

[Guest Triszin]

Omeggon goes loyal

 

Khan goes independent from the imperium

 

lion goes traitor (turns out Luthers loyal)

[chapter master 454]

Everyone, you're doing it wrong. Remember, it mustn't be anything other than the laziest possible solution with no real writing for it other than to push a new model. Think simple, dumb and completely uninventive or go for the real points and retcon a massive chunk of canon so large you make the Cicatrix Maledictum and 13th black crusade look like footnote edits!

Clearly Horus will come back to life, the Emperor will turn traitor, Sanginous with resurrect from the combined power of mortation and Fulgrim secret ultra special ploy that was always going on, Gottatham the ultimate (new character who was always in lore but just never mentioned, sorry we forgot to mention this guy - GW) will then take the golden throne, plug it into his armour and then transform terra into a planet sized titan to punch the combined chaos gods into nothing and we all lived happily ever after!

 

Sarcastic Haymaker at GWs writing ability as evidenced by Belisaurius Cawl and Gulliman's revival, I personally have my own hopes for certain turn of events.

 

In terms of a loyalist turning, it would be a good twist for Sanguinous to turn out to be a daemon prince now, twisted and perverted by a combination of slannesh and khorne and were subtly influencing the blood angels and worsening their conditions over time. Would make for the ultimate hope breaker of the Imperium, a beloved Primarch twisted and no-one ever knew it happened.

For Traitors, I find it annoying how final daemonhood is for characters. The only things in stories that are final are actions done and certain events that have occurred, nothing should be written off as impossible. Magus would be interesting to see, possibly his "Purged" half returns to the reality somehow would be fun but doubtful...too much silliness to do to make it work. With Omegon I feel it just doesn't work, it's so obvious and then it keeps cycling on itself because its alpha legion and alpha legion have "Just as Planned" down to the point they make Tzeentch look like a noob at it. I enjoyed one idea that the 40k Theories had which is Mortation returning to the loyalist side, the hinting of how his weapon is clean and not rusted as most nurgle weapons are, not to mention his first captain apparently giving him lip about not being a true servant of nurgle. sadly, with his model out he is comdemned to chaos and thus not a chance which is sad.

 

Lion is FAR too obvious for traitor duty and I really hope that if he is the traitor that we get some sort of good story for it. Not just "lol he was traitor".

 

However I fully expect the story to be a complete failure and let down with no real decent or sensible writing behind it because GeeDubs wants to push a model with it. No doubt the model will look awesome however I find that having good writing just helps amplify a models presence...I feel GW however are too cowardly with giving their poster boys anything but good things with nothing bad happening in return (though I would love to see them have Calgar fall to chaos!)

[Atrus]

Ive always found Lorgar to ve the most human of the primarchs. While others could be summed up as just killers or statesmen, he was alwats one to serve and worship something greater than himself.

This is a natural state of humanity seen in history, evrywhere humanity needs something larger than itself to worship. Even in this day and age, while the gods of zues and other classics are not worshipped, there are others that have taken their place: science, fame and fortune, comfort and self.

 

Lorgar didnt deny his human need to worship and found it initially in the emperor. Big E smacked him down for that and it was in his hurt that other flawed (post)humans whispered their own thoughts leading the whole legion and Lorgar into those paths where chaos deceived them. Their own feelings of betrayal clouding them. A few times Lorgar could have come back from it and seemed to come close to it but the chaos poisoned words of his most trusted friends and mentors swayed him.

 

As far as i know hes spent the past 10k years in isolation meditating. Personally i could see that time as reflection, the state of the ultumately failed heresy. I could see him concluding the chaos gods were not the answer he sought and could turn back to his original belief of the emprah being the god he sought, repent and chamge sides. Doubtful his legion would come with him. Most all would stay.

 

But thats too much depth for gw writing of late so wed probably get something silly and tropey like Omegon.

 

As for goodie gone bad. I hope its Russ...just cuz i dont like the wolves.

Or surprise curveball, Rowboat Girlyman turns traitor for reasons and Dorn steps in.

[Indefragable]

The Lion and Khan would be the eye-roll choices. The Lion because memes and the Khan because he was al ways the outsider who get distances from his brothers.

 

I much rather prefer the “loyalty is it’s own reward” anti-hero aspect of the Lion and the Khan is just too cool as a Kikuchiyo-esque “you want nothing to do with me until you need me to save you” type hero.

 

Dorn would die before ever flipping, though (in a very broad paintbrush way) he’s kinda similar enough to Guilliman (to mainstream audiences) that I could see them trying to mix that up.

 

Vulkan...of course he and Khan would be candidates to flip...<eye roll>. Not going there. But you get it.

 

Russ would be intriguing as a traitor, but A. Too loyal B. That would break the Imperium. The SW are just enough of a thing that it would crush them to have Russ flipped and taking them out of the fight could be just the critics loss that truly sends the Imperium spiraling downward for good.

 

Which leaves Corax. I can actually see Corax losing his mind from his whole “nevermore” wandering that he has been corrupted or gone insane. And the RG have been :cuss upon by GW enough that it actually woulda kinda work.

 

Traitors:

Omegon is the easy answer.

 

Lorgar is the juicy one...it’s SO unlikely that it kinda works. After all, he abandoned the Emperor because the Emperor was “not worthy of devotion.” 10,000 years later, perhaps the chaos gods are not worthy either and Lorgar is moving on? Once a turncoat, always a turncoat.... yea unlikely but intriguing.

 

Which brings me to Perturabo. The ending of his Primarchs series entry was brilliant and leaves just enough room for Perty to have this gigantic moment of redemption. He isn’t really into the whole chaos gods things for the reasons others are... another dark horse that’s intriguing.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Just as the last OldMarine dies, and the conversion to Primaris is complete, Guilliman begins a galaxy-wide broadcast, only to reach up and remove his mask, to reveal he was Primarch XI all along! Those "Primaris organs" weren't new things at all, they were just his unique geneseed, like the Canis Helix of the Space Wolves. "This is how you pull a Just-as-planned, Alpharius, you two-bit hack!" Then Omegon rage-quits from the Traitor side just so he can get revenge.

[DuskRaider]

Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch, he's not going to return to the Imperium. Daemonhood is a finality because technically you die. You mortal body is shed (dies) and your becomes one with the God who favors you / the Warp. There's no coming back from that unless somehow the Emperor actually does become a 6th God (I still count Malal) and can somehow convert other Gods' daemons to his own which... after the garbage that's been done for 8th wouldn't surprise me at all. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

I suppose there's actually previous cases of it happening, as that's basically what happened when Slaanesh consumed the Eldar gods.

[40Kcollector]

Ferrus comes back as a daemon. Guess I’ll have to start collecting chaos then

[redmapa]

Of the loyalists, the one I would most like to see turn against Guilliman / the Imperium is Dorn. Not that he's the one I find most likely to do it, just the one I'd like to turn his back on the broken imperium.

 

Wasn't he very anti-Lectio Divinatus? Wouldn't he abhoar the current prevalence of superstition as much as Sigismund's sons abhoar the witch?

 

I want Dorn to come back, turn his back to Guilliman's Imperium Secundus Tertius and reinstate the Great Crusade. #BackinTemplarBlack-style, or something.

I remember Dorn saying that the primarchs werent supposed to be worshipped and that the Emperor was the only one worthy of being worshipped, so I dont think he will be completely against the Ecclesiarchy.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, he basically shunned Sigismund for buying into the whole "the Emperor may actually be a god" thing.

[MrZakalwe]

Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch, he's not going to return to the Imperium. Daemonhood is a finality because technically you die. You mortal body is shed (dies) and your becomes one with the God who favors you / the Warp. There's no coming back from that unless somehow the Emperor actually does become a 6th God (I still count Malal) and can somehow convert other Gods' daemons to his own which... after the garbage that's been done for 8th wouldn't surprise me at all.

Be'lakor would be the previous non-aligned daemon prince and he pretty much does his own thing (and for that reason the chaos gods began only raising champions that were loyal to them individually).

 

It's not that daemon princes are loyal because they are raised up by the god, it's that they are raised up because they are loyal.

[Jackalwolf]

Pipe dreams:

 

-Russ returns from the eye of Terror with all the still pure shards of Magnus and he's reborn.

 

-Fulgrim's soul aided by the spirit of Ferrus manages to wrestle out the demon of the Laer (would involve retconning a bit since despite Fulgrim being imprisoned after killing Ferrus in the books he actually claims to be himself).

Edited February 16, 2018 by Grieux

[DuskRaider]

 

Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch, he's not going to return to the Imperium. Daemonhood is a finality because technically you die. You mortal body is shed (dies) and your becomes one with the God who favors you / the Warp. There's no coming back from that unless somehow the Emperor actually does become a 6th God (I still count Malal) and can somehow convert other Gods' daemons to his own which... after the garbage that's been done for 8th wouldn't surprise me at all.

Be'lakor would be the previous non-aligned daemon prince and he pretty much does his own thing (and for that reason the chaos gods began only raising champions that were loyal to them individually).

 

It's not that daemon princes are loyal because they are raised up by the god, it's that they are raised up because they are loyal.

 

 

No, they're loyal because once they ascend they're technically a part OF that God. They're literally an extension of the God, as with all other Daemons. 

[MrZakalwe]

No, they're loyal because once they ascend they're technically a part OF that God. They're literally an extension of the God, as with all other Daemons.

The Be'lakor lore tells that sotry a fair bit differently and as he's the premier example of the undivided daemon prince he'd be my go-to example (not that inconsistent lore is anything new so who knows?).

[DuskRaider]

Well you don't even have to be loyal to the Dark Gods to ascend, they simply have to show favor. This could be for a multitude of reasons, from showing yourself worthy via (mis)deeds to the stars just align right in your favor. The Chaos Gods don't need a reason to elevate you, they simply do or do not. Mortals have reached daemonhood for far less than others. 

[Xenith]

Loyal Primarch turning traitor - Most likely Corax. They have to do something to make the RG more interesting.

Traitor Primarch turning loyal - probably the Lion.