Berzul Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Hi guys. I have a problem with the Interrogator-Chaplain. I have two of them. One in Power Armor, one in Terminator Armor. So far, I have barely ever used them. My main issue is that, I constantly find myself not seeing how to justify bringing him in, when the Master can be almost as maneuverable (Terminator Armor, Jump Pack, Transport... the only thing we don't have is a Bike option). But, the Master provides what I feel is a far greater singergy with the rest of the army. His rerolls may be of only 1s, but they are to both shooting and melee. Unless I am taking in some unit or squad that cannot shoot (such as Deathwing Knights and... well, Deathwing knights, really), I can never find myself choosing to use an IC over a Master. How do you guys decide on which HQ choice to take? Please, someone share with me some strategies on how to make the best out of my ICs. cause so far I always want to try them, but they keep collecting dust in my shelf :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I can't really bring myself to use chaplains in 8th either (for any of my armies, not just my Dark Angels), for pretty much the same reasons you already pointed out. I really think that chaplains need some additional bonus to make them worth while to take over a captain or master. Maybe if chaplains were able to attempt one deny the witch they might be worth taking? Like you said, deathwing knights seem to be the only unit that really works well with chaplains. I guess if you really wanted to use something else you could use company vets loaded out for CC? Firepower 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisqc Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I think the best fix for chaplain will be to change the reroll to hit for reroll to wound (and point fix for it). All unit (excluding vehicule) hit on 3+ and some hit on 2+ (champion, lieutenant, master, chaplain and all special character). Master already have full reroll with 2+ reroll 1 so no benefit from Chaplain. Champion have full reroll against character so have situational benefit from chaplain. Because all Master now have iron halo for a 4++ save, Chaplain have no advantage in melee vs Master. The reroll 1 for all to hit and +1 Attack realy give advantage to Master for character choice for almost the same cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Yeah, that is pretty much my reasoning. The IC can only really buff melee units. But, on a 3+, when you have to choose between a reroll all hits vs a reroll all 1s to hit, the latter becomes better when it applies also to shooting, and the Character himself is better in combat overall. I mean, the statline, gear and abilities for the Master make him a better choice everytime. The Master can take better weapons through relics, and in fact a Master with MC Boltgun and Heavenfall blade is 4 points cheaper than standard IC, fights better, and gives better rerolls. When you can give said Master almost the same ways to drop into combat than the IC then I no longer see a reason to go with one over the other. The only thing I see the IC being better at is with his Aura of Dread, which combined with Eye of the Unseen, makes for a -2ld 3 inch aura. This could tie well with Mind Worm of Trephination from a nearby Librarian. But it IS very situational in its own right. I have thought of trying one with a CC Veteran Squad, but again... as soon as I assemble the Squad, with Plasma Pistols being so cheap this edition, I cannot help but give one to each veteran... and then the Master becomes the better choice, as I can then overcharge the pistols and apply weapons from the dark age, and have them shooting S8 AP-3 D3 shots a piece, before they charge... Edited February 15, 2018 by Berzul Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Whats Melee? Joking aside a unit with only 3 attacks who was an absolute beast on a bike in 7th is quietly whimpering at the back of the display cabinet reminiscing with his 2 other chaplain pals. "He took me instead of Sammael, I was the leader the black nights followed me everywhere SOB" Combat in 8th is strange because people can pull out and you don't overrun like you used to + you can just spend 2 CP's to pass morale or shoot after you pull out. A unit or HQ needs re-rolls + weight of attacks + high strength high neg AP weapons Chaplain Attacks 3 at S5 -1 Master with heavanfall blade Attacks 5 at S6 -3 I've given the jump pack master the mace of redemption (He also has a cheeky grav pistol which is surprisingly doing work, D3 damage is useful when it comes up) because the Heavenfall blade is on my new best buddy the Talon Master Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkangeldentist Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I have been using an interrogator chaplain for the last few games find him very much a fluff choice. I play him because I like the model (the Dark Vengeance one in this instance) and want to put him on the table. He is not quite as good as nearly any of our other HQs, particularly when it comes to personal output (unless you give him a powerfist which I have yet to convince myself to do). The Crozius just makes me a little sad when I see that -1 for AP although a flat damage 2 is at least a bit more respectable. The one rule I haven't seen mentioned yet in this thread is the 'Spiritual leaders' rule letting nearby units use his Ld. Morale isn't exactly a problem for space marines and Dark angels in particular are stubborn to a fault but it has it's uses and is nice when you want to keep those special/heavy weapon guys alive so kill the sergeant. It's a very minor thing in practice but it did crop up in one game. The Aura of Dread rule has cropped up in a couple of games (usually stacked with 'Eye of the unseen' carried by a company champion) and negative mods to Ld can really swing the flow of games. (I've no time for the trephination trick, it's one hoop too far for me to jump through.) If he gets right into the thick of the enemy lines and you were able to kill off a few members from multiple units then there's a good chance a bunch more may be disappearing by the end of the turn. My way around the issue of HQ choices is to take all of them. My current list has a master, librarian and interrogator chaplain and so far I've not felt bad for taking the chaplain. Rule of cool, he's been fun and looked badass on the table but I can't deny that his presence isn't really based around his personal output. I may end up swapping him out for a Lt as re-rolling to wound dice (even just the 1's) makes such a difference to some weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisqc Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) Interrogator-Chaplain is interesting if you use The Lion and the Wolf stratagem. You can get leadership 10 (11 if within 6'' of ancient) with the IC and with Spiritual leader, all units within 6'' of the IC will get Ld 10/11. Team the IC and ancient with a Librarian and for mind wipe you start at Ld 11. Add Reiver to escort them and eye of the unseen on 1 character and every unit that come close to you are -3 Ld. With this setup, the psychic power engulfing fear (morale on 2d6 pick the highest) may even be consider, realy situational, but your opponent will not want to come close to this unit. Edited February 15, 2018 by solarisqc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I've not used any of my Int Chaps yet in 8th yet. I have biker, jump pack & TDA models all modelled with the mace of redemption, which I guess in itself is one reason why I've not taken them. Not being able to field one with this relic like in the past has taken the shine off of them for me. When I'm looking at HQs I'm looking for something to force multiply the type of army I'm bringing to the table. Most of the time I'm taking to the field with one battalion plus either a vanguard, spearhead or outrider detachment. 1 HQ of the typical 3 is basically always a Lieutenant (sometimes in Talonmaster form) because, well why wouldn't you? Then I'm looking at either Azrael, Belial or Sammael depending on how the rest of the force is made up, or even a combination of the three if I'm looking to improve multiple elements in my army. In the off chance I only bring 1 of those three, then I guess the next place I'm looking for support is the librarius. Chaplains & Int Chaplains just don't rate higher than any of the above options for me when constructing the type of lists I tend to field. I have taken a list that stacked a bunch of DWKs, a DW Ancient & Azmodai in a Storm Raven which was a bit of fun, but still, I'm yet to run an unnamed Interrogator. If they changed the Chaplain's reroll melee hits aura to reroll melee wounds like mentioned above, then yes, I do have quite a few lists where that sort of support character would become a priority purchase but for now, the other options are just more attractive to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G8Keeper Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 For me an Interrogator Chaplain gets me cheaper re-rolls with my deep striking Knights than Belial, hence an auto-include if I take the Knights. If I were ever to deploy them normally I would take Asmodai. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I'll agree that his rules and cost doesn't make him a very interesting choice, whether he's an interrogator or not. That said, I'd like to try and get my power armour version kitted with MoR and jump pack, and let him loose along with 10 assault marines. Why? Just to try it. Perhaps even a librarian as well for trephination, even though it is highly situational. It could be an expensive way of actually making assault marines do something. But it could should be fun... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Assault marines are a very poor combat unit choice, best combat unit I have currently is Reivers with 16 attacks from 5 guys and grapnel launchers help the charge. Now of only I could get Asmodai anywhere near them ???? G8Keeper 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cernunnos Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I use an interrogator chaplain to make my deathwing terminators close combat attacks more reliable. They are a good all-rounder unit, but need the close combat rerolls for reliability. Belial is better for a few points more though. However, I only field named characters on special occasions, preferring to use generic hq's generally, so he often sees the field of battle. Perhaps the only real competitive justification for the interrogator chaplain over Belial is the abiltity to get that -2 ld modifier with eye of the unseen to combo with some of our psychic powers. Not sure it is that strong, but it is an option Belial doesn't provide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 The easiest fix would be to make Masters/Captains reroll in shooting, while Chaplains in melee. SickSix 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I think everyone has summed up the issue quite neatly. They buff something we don’t really build towards. There maybe room for a chappy in TDA with my knights but my chaplain on bike is never getting into a list before Sammy or a talon master (next on my to do list). Which is a shame because my interrogator chaplain on a bike is my favorite model in my army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 It’s not just that he buffs something we don’t build towards, it’s that the thing he does buff company masters buff nearly as well, plus they’re more durable and hit harder. They have a place but it’s very small and very niche and basically irrelevant for competitive play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I'll agree that his rules and cost doesn't make him a very interesting choice, whether he's an interrogator or not. That said, I'd like to try and get my power armour version kitted with MoR and jump pack, and let him loose along with 10 assault marines. Why? Just to try it. Perhaps even a librarian as well for trephination, even though it is highly situational. It could be an expensive way of actually making assault marines do something. But it could should be fun... Can't take the MoR - it replaces a power maul, which a crozius arcanum is not. Berzul 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 I'll agree that his rules and cost doesn't make him a very interesting choice, whether he's an interrogator or not. That said, I'd like to try and get my power armour version kitted with MoR and jump pack, and let him loose along with 10 assault marines. Why? Just to try it. Perhaps even a librarian as well for trephination, even though it is highly situational. It could be an expensive way of actually making assault marines do something. But it could should be fun... Can't take the MoR - it replaces a power maul, which a crozius arcanum is not. Yeah, that is one of the additional issues that make the IC hard to take over a Master. It was a good choice to go with an IC with a MoR back in 7th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen Sabre Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Like Dentist previously stated, he's very much a fluffy choice for an army, and I guess if you're stricken for points, and Interrogator Chaplain could work out. Quite useful with a squad of Deathwing Knights, though outside of fluff and Knights, he's second rate. Though is always fun to pretend your IC is Asmodai and direct all enemy units to Cell 42, maybe that's just me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 Its nice to see that it wasn't just that i wasn't understanding his role in the overall Army, I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helycon Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) I'll agree that his rules and cost doesn't make him a very interesting choice, whether he's an interrogator or not. That said, I'd like to try and get my power armour version kitted with MoR and jump pack, and let him loose along with 10 assault marines. Why? Just to try it. Perhaps even a librarian as well for trephination, even though it is highly situational. It could be an expensive way of actually making assault marines do something. But it could should be fun... Can't take the MoR - it replaces a power maul, which a crozius arcanum is not.Correct, but he can replace his bolt pistol for a maul. I haven't used mine either. The master is just so much better in every way. Edited February 15, 2018 by Helycon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5011843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Helycon has it - replace the one weapon for a power maul, and you can upgrade that to MoR. It's 4 points to make him hit a lot harder in combat. I'll modify my chappie in TDA (metal) to wield MoR. Just to see my opponents cower in fear when he land with Belial and a million(!) terminators... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344427-my-problem-with-the-interrogator-chaplain/#findComment-5012079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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