Forlorn Fury

[Blackcadian]

Hey all,

 

I was just wondering if anyone has used Forlorn Fury with any success. It looks like a great way to avoid anti-deep striking stratagems or some screening tactics, but ... what if you don’t go first? I mean that DC you conveniently moved up? Yeah they're not gonna see turn 2 buddy. And if you use the strat to move them back into total cover/cover now youve wasted 2 CP AND theyre even further away from where they want to be AND probably can still be shot at.

 

Seems like a massive risk imo.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Blackcadian

[Calistarius]

With the way it’s worded, “at the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn has begun” means that it takes place after the turns have been decided. The 7th edition version explicitly said during the deployment of the unit. I’d love to see some proof as to why this isn’t the case. This seems to be a common conception as to how this works.

[Paladin777]

I’ve had it used against me in conjunction with a descent of angels assault squad and lucky chaplain charge roll that had me on the back foot the whole game!

[Blackcadian]

With the way it’s worded, “at the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn has begun” means that it takes place after the turns have been decided. The 7th edition version explicitly said during the deployment of the unit. I’d love to see some proof as to why this isn’t the case. This seems to be a common conception as to how this works.

I believe that is how it works, too, I hope I didn’t imply that it doesn’t?

[The Unseen]

Using it on a DC squad or a Captain you've given Death Visions of Sanguinius, let's you threaten an additional turn 1 charge along with Descent of Angels.

 

It's riskier, yeah, but if you do it right, you deploy the DC behind LoS blocking terrain to start with.

If you go first, you then move then towards the enemy before game starts.

If you go second, they stay behind said terrain, or use it to get closer behind a different piece of terrain.

[Calistarius]

 

With the way it’s worded, “at the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn has begun” means that it takes place after the turns have been decided. The 7th edition version explicitly said during the deployment of the unit. I’d love to see some proof as to why this isn’t the case. This seems to be a common conception as to how this works.

I believe that is how it works, too, I hope I didn’t imply that it doesn’t?

My mistake! I misunderstood you!

 

As for your question, I haven’t used it yet. I want to, but I rarely get first turn. I’d definitely use it to counter Dark Reapers and Eldar shenanigans. If they keep them deep within their back field you might be able to use FF to position yourself in LoS blocking terrain for a turn 1 charge against a different unit that denies overwatch.

 

I think this strategem is dependent on your opponent making a mistake in their deployment.

[Brother Crimson]

Hey all,

 

I was just wondering if anyone has used Forlorn Fury with any success. It looks like a great way to avoid anti-deep striking stratagems or some screening tactics, but ... what if you don’t go first? I mean that DC you conveniently moved up? Yeah they're not gonna see turn 2 buddy. And if you use the strat to move them back into total cover/cover now youve wasted 2 CP AND theyre even further away from where they want to be AND probably can still be shot at.

 

Seems like a massive risk imo.

The trick is that you know who’s going first when you use it. Initial deployment in cover then jump over it in your opponent’s face or stay in cover.

 

As also mentioned, using it with a character is less risky, if you have forward scouts they will be shot before the captain because of character rule.

[Kaese]

Keep in mind that you can also advance when you use forlorn fury. That is 24”+d6” movement range to get into position for the first turn charge. It is a bit riskier than descent of angels, but way safer than gambling with the normal 9” drop charge before the codex.

 

I have used forlorn fury in last few games, with great success. Death company is the last one to deploy, so that I can block the LOS to most of the dangerous shooting. Haven't suffered any major casualties this way when going second, and it is absolute murder if you get to go first when combined with another unit with descent of angels.

 

I tend to keep chaplain or any other buffing characters in reserves and drop them close after I get close enough to charge. Otherwise it would be impossible to keep up with the death company unit.

[Morticon]

 

Hey all,

 

I was just wondering if anyone has used Forlorn Fury with any success. It looks like a great way to avoid anti-deep striking stratagems or some screening tactics, but ... what if you don’t go first? I mean that DC you conveniently moved up? Yeah they're not gonna see turn 2 buddy. And if you use the strat to move them back into total cover/cover now youve wasted 2 CP AND theyre even further away from where they want to be AND probably can still be shot at.

 

Seems like a massive risk imo.

The trick is that you know who’s going first when you use it. Initial deployment in cover then jump over it in your opponent’s face or stay in cover.

 

As also mentioned, using it with a character is less risky, if you have forward scouts they will be shot before the captain because of character rule.

 

 

 

This ^  Deploy in cover, or be able to move into cover, and dont have any non-LOS shots your way, and its brilliant. 

 

I only got to use it once in a 5game tournament, but was excellent. 

[Panzer]

It's great when you have more than one unit you want to have in melee turn one or if the opponent has lots of things to deny reserves like Nurglings, Scouts or Stealth Suits. Unfortunately not something I can use due Primaris having no Deathcompany. :P

[Blackcadian]

 

 

 

Hey all,

 

I was just wondering if anyone has used Forlorn Fury with any success. It looks like a great way to avoid anti-deep striking stratagems or some screening tactics, but ... what if you don’t go first? I mean that DC you conveniently moved up? Yeah they're not gonna see turn 2 buddy. And if you use the strat to move them back into total cover/cover now youve wasted 2 CP AND theyre even further away from where they want to be AND probably can still be shot at.

 

Seems like a massive risk imo.

The trick is that you know who’s going first when you use it. Initial deployment in cover then jump over it in your opponent’s face or stay in cover.

 

As also mentioned, using it with a character is less risky, if you have forward scouts they will be shot before the captain because of character rule.

 

This ^ Deploy in cover, or be able to move into cover, and dont have any non-LOS shots your way, and its brilliant.

 

I only got to use it once in a 5game tournament, but was excellent.

Hm that’s what I’d do but imo my point still stands - if you don’t go first that DC unit will eat ALL the firepower. Even if they don’t - they’ll still be too far away for a charge when you get your turn. Sure you can reposition with WoF but then you could’ve just deep-struck normally in the first place.

 

Bottom line - don’t use it vs a short army?

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Hey all,

 

I was just wondering if anyone has used Forlorn Fury with any success. It looks like a great way to avoid anti-deep striking stratagems or some screening tactics, but ... what if you don’t go first? I mean that DC you conveniently moved up? Yeah they're not gonna see turn 2 buddy. And if you use the strat to move them back into total cover/cover now youve wasted 2 CP AND theyre even further away from where they want to be AND probably can still be shot at.

 

Seems like a massive risk imo.

The trick is that you know who’s going first when you use it. Initial deployment in cover then jump over it in your opponent’s face or stay in cover.

 

As also mentioned, using it with a character is less risky, if you have forward scouts they will be shot before the captain because of character rule.

 

This ^ Deploy in cover, or be able to move into cover, and dont have any non-LOS shots your way, and its brilliant.

 

I only got to use it once in a 5game tournament, but was excellent.

Hm that’s what I’d do but imo my point still stands - if you don’t go first that DC unit will eat ALL the firepower. Even if they don’t - they’ll still be too far away for a charge when you get your turn. Sure you can reposition with WoF but then you could’ve just deep-struck normally in the first place.

 

Bottom line - don’t use it vs a short army?

 

Bottom line: don't use it if you have no unit in reserve for the 3d6 charge stratagem and the opponent doesn't have units to deny reserve deployment like Scouts etc.

 

If you already have a unit you want to use the 3d6 charge stratagem on like Sanguinary Guard, a second unit of DC or characters maybe, then deploy your DC regularly and use Forlorn Fury.

If the opponent has a list that denies you proper deployment of reserves so you wouldn't be able to charge something good with the 3d6 charge, then deploy your DC regularly and use Forlorn Fury.

[Brother Crimson]

It will also depend a lot on the terrain. I said cover but behind a LOS blocking terrain can even be better. Jump pack allows to ignore terrain when you move over so you don’t really care about being behind a big hill/building.

 

One thing I found forlorn help against is those nasty auspex. Hellblaster and aggressors can really tear up a unit straight out of deep strike.

[superwill]

Yeah I'm with you BlackCadian, Forlorn Fury has sometimes cost me dearly when I've deployed something, hoping to FF it, when I really should have kept it in reserves. But I guess it's one of those risk vs rewards things. Can be game-breaking when it comes off well.

[Blackcadian]

It will also depend a lot on the terrain. I said cover but behind a LOS blocking terrain can even be better. Jump pack allows to ignore terrain when you move over so you don’t really care about being behind a big hill/building.

 

One thing I found forlorn help against is those nasty auspex. Hellblaster and aggressors can really tear up a unit straight out of deep strike.

I agree, and what you mention is the reason I am contemplating using this. I just did some math of a 15 man DC unit being intercepted by a guided 10 elf Dark Reaper Squad and it’s not pretty - on average 8 will go down and that is before any overwatch.

 

Thing is - if I decide to Forlorn Fury instead, but don’t get first turn, even in cover the same 15 man unit will in all likelihood catch not only that single guided Reaper squads firepower. Plus even when my turn rolls around they’ll still be sitting in my deployment zone unable to charge anything. Or I guess depending on terrain further up the field if I do FF anyway, but no sane opponent will let such a threat live.

 

Call me conservative but relying on going first is not a risk I’m willing to take versus a good shooty opponent.

 

Even if I get behind LOS blocking terrain that Hemlock he’s sure to bring will reach me T1. Haven’t run the numbers on it yet though and I guess I could screen with Scouts to prevent it getting into position.

 

Am I crazy thinking I’d rather take the intercept shots than risk not getting 1st turn?

[Explorer1]

 

It will also depend a lot on the terrain. I said cover but behind a LOS blocking terrain can even be better. Jump pack allows to ignore terrain when you move over so you don’t really care about being behind a big hill/building.

One thing I found forlorn help against is those nasty auspex. Hellblaster and aggressors can really tear up a unit straight out of deep strike.

I agree, and what you mention is the reason I am contemplating using this. I just did some math of a 15 man DC unit being intercepted by a guided 10 elf Dark Reaper Squad and it’s not pretty - on average 8 will go down and that is before any overwatch.

Thing is - if I decide to Forlorn Fury instead, but don’t get first turn, even in cover the same 15 man unit will in all likelihood catch not only that single guided Reaper squads firepower. Plus even when my turn rolls around they’ll still be sitting in my deployment zone unable to charge anything. Or I guess depending on terrain further up the field if I do FF anyway, but no sane opponent will let such a threat live.

Call me conservative but relying on going first is not a risk I’m willing to take versus a good shooty opponent.

Even if I get behind LOS blocking terrain that Hemlock he’s sure to bring will reach me T1. Haven’t run the numbers on it yet though and I guess I could screen with Scouts to prevent it getting into position.

Am I crazy thinking I’d rather take the intercept shots than risk not getting 1st turn?

You can avoid intercept from reapers if you deploy the DC on the table, and use On Wings of Fire. The Eldar intercept strategem only works if its a unit coming in from reserve. Of course you need to have a space out of los (or far enough away) to hide the DC from turn one fire, but that’s a lot easier than lining up forlorn fury.

[Blackcadian]

Thank you for the suggestion but I’m pretty sure once you remove a unit from the table it is in reserves unfortunately :/

[Panzer]

Thank you for the suggestion but I’m pretty sure once you remove a unit from the table it is in reserves unfortunately :/

 

That's not the case tho. Unless it says you place it in reserves it doesn't get placed in reserves. You simply re-deploy the unit with On Wings of Fire. No reserves involved. ;)

[Calistarius]

 

Thank you for the suggestion but I’m pretty sure once you remove a unit from the table it is in reserves unfortunately :/

 

That's not the case tho. Unless it says you place it in reserves it doesn't get placed in reserves. You simply re-deploy the unit with On Wings of Fire. No reserves involved. ;)

This is absolutely correct. OWF is not a deepstrike deployment. It’s a movement manipulation. Units using the Forewarned stratagem can only targets arriving from reserves.

 

Sorry for the redundancy.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Calistarius

[Explorer1]

 

 

Thank you for the suggestion but I’m pretty sure once you remove a unit from the table it is in reserves unfortunately :/

That's not the case tho. Unless it says you place it in reserves it doesn't get placed in reserves. You simply re-deploy the unit with On Wings of Fire. No reserves involved.

This is absolutely correct. OWF is not a deepstrike deployment. It’s a movement manipulation. Units using the Forewarned stratagem can only targets arriving from reserves.

 

Sorry for the redundancy.

 

 

This - and another thing - forewarned also says you need to shoot immediately, so if you're deploying multiple deep striking units, the elder player needs to decide which one to shoot as it's deployed. If you deploy another unit, they lose the chance to shoot the first unit i.e. they cant wait until all your units are deployed, and then choose which one to shoot. So you can "bluff" your opponent by deep striking some units while keeping the "big scary unit" in reserve ..... and then deploying that unit out of range/los, to be brought up using Wings next turn. 

[Blackcadian]

Guys, you are awesome! I’m very happy to be wrong

 

And Explorer - that is a mean idea I love it!

[Explorer1]

Guys, you are awesome! I’m very happy to be wrong

 

And Explorer - that is a mean idea I love it!

 

You're welcome - had a practice game against our club's elder player last week, when we worked all this out. Makes Reaper spam a little more manageable  - mind you it was the Hemlocks that screwed me. I'll never forgive mephiston - 14 attacks on one Hemlock and he wiffed!!

Edited February 15, 2018 by Explorer1

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I have found myself actually using Forlorn Fury... on Capt Smash one time so far.

Although it was glorious; and has been much talked about, it doesn't come up as a good idea much really on the table for me.

The POSSIBILITY I might do it affects my friends nicely tho.

 

3d6 Drop charge is better overall in my opinion. Auspex Scan etc is indeed the work of ebil debils as noted above tho...

 

I have started running my DC in transports with Vets and Chars doing drop duty in support tho mostly when I roll them out at all lately.

Running my own metal bawkses gives the local Khorne flake something to think about at the list design stage too ya see =).

 

-or I run 5 DC with bolters, JP and a power weapon for a reserve in a list too I suppose, but wouldn't use 2 cp on them.

So yeah doesn't come up much really for me.

 

2 cp could be gold 1 in X games with a big 15 DC blob, but it seems unreliable for the points to me personally in my meta.

I want my old FNP back so they could do bullet sponge duty in this role at least...

 

Anyhow, a really nice option to have vote here. Mostly as a threat tho really.

It keeps big griblies wrapped up back into their deployment zones hiding from Capt Smash, and punishes/forces mistakes etc etc.

[Ornithologist]

Considering I always put my Death co and Captain in reserves... I haven't played it yet.

 

Maybe when I run them on foot next? 

 

Though I will definitely consider it with use on Death co Dreads. Nothing like a first turn charge with them to mess with the opponents head.

[Calistarius]

Considering I always put my Death co and Captain in reserves... I haven't played it yet.

 

Maybe when I run them on foot next? 

 

Though I will definitely consider it with use on Death co Dreads. Nothing like a first turn charge with them to mess with the opponents head.

It only works on Infantry :(