Bikers

[WickedJester1013]

I was interested in a working list for a mounted army, maybe not 100% mounted, but at least the main feel of the army having several biker squads in it. What would the best path be? I know the renegades trait looks good, but what else would make this better, and how well would this idea work? I am not trying to power play and win tournaments, but I’d love to at least go down fighting. Also I am ok with other chaos detachments to support.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Tallarn Commander]

I also want to someday field a biker-heavy army. I only have 11 Chaos Bikers. Maybe someday...

 

Bikers seem appropriate in almost any Traitor Legion, although Renegades and Night Lords are particularly apt for bikers. I run mine as Night Lords since they fit the Night Lords themes if terror, rapid strikes, and raiding.

 

With regard to units, I've found Chaos Bikers pair well with anything really. Although they work especially well advancing behind Rhinos (mobile cover) and with deepstriking units like termies and raptors (takes the heat off the bikers).

 

Bikers are probably my favorite Chaos unit.

[Panzer]

Okay first thing to say is that a Bike themed army would not be a competetive one. Doesn't mean it would be trash but it would struggle against stronger lists and even worse on boards with lots of multi-level ruins.

 

I'd go for either Renegades for the sweet 6" advance&charge, World Eaters for a bit more punch or Night Lords because their trait works with basically any kind of army that wants to be close to the enemy (and because I think the trait is really cool).

 

For the loadout there are a few interesting options.

If you go with Night Lords I'd go with either Nurgle for an additional -1 to LD from the Icon or Khorne for the charge re-roll Icon.

If you go with World Eaters you basically have to take Khorne but it's what you'd want anyway.

If you go with Renegades I'd go for Khorne as well for the charge re-roll Icon.

Of course if you know you're mainly playing against Imperium the Slaanesh one is an option as well for Night Lords and Renegades.

 

Weapon-wise you're rather free what to take. Just don't dismiss the Combi-Bolter too quickly. It's cheap and good. Perfect for a cheap harasser unit to get a few more models on the board.

Oh and I'd probably not take the Plasma gun on Renegades for obvious reasons. Those guys want to be fast and they need Assault weapons for that. ^^

 

 

Ultimately a Biker themed list would struggle with the same problems any elite list struggles with. The current rules favour hordes a little bit too much. They won't have a hard time killing your bikes despite T5 W2 Sv3+ and each loss hurts a lot. In return every model you kill against a Horde list won't hurt your opponent all that much since there are plenty to replace that one on the board.

At the same time you'd struggle with taking objectives from the enemy due your lower model count (and no ObSec on bikes) so you would have to rely on objectives your opponent isn't sitting on or focus much of your ressources on removing those units from the objective you want to capture.

 

tl;dr

Play a Bike list because you like to play a Bike list but be prepared to struggle in games unless your opponents play similar casually themed lists.

[WickedJester1013]

So the main reason is from a modeling standpoint, I have been taking chaos knights from old fantasy models and converting them to bikers. My main squeeze so to speak are the thousand sons and deathguard. So I’m not looking to run a full army, but maybe 2-3 units and some war machines and fire support.

[Panzer]

So the main reason is from a modeling standpoint, I have been taking chaos knights from old fantasy models and converting them to bikers. My main squeeze so to speak are the thousand sons and deathguard. So I’m not looking to run a full army, but maybe 2-3 units and some war machines and fire support.

Oh that's totally fine. Bikes are decent utility units to harass the flanks.

For that job I'd definitely take them as Renegade detachment, Mark of Khorne + Icon for the charge re-roll and most likely Flamer since Meltaguns would be too expensive and paint a big target on their heads. Just move them up the flank asap and charge some annoying shooty unit so it has to fall back or some GEQ/MEQ to prevent it from reaching objectives for a turn or two.

 

Not sure what you'd want for firesupport in that detachment tho since TSons and DG already have plenty access to that iirc.

[intel31337]

I would not discount flamers on bikers as a chaff-clearing shooty option.

oint for point, a squad of 3 bikers with 2 flamers + combi-flamer will dish out (a little) more damage on average than a squad of 5 havocs w/ 4 flamers + combi-flamer for a few less points. This is thanks to the added fire power from those sweet sweet combi-bolters strapped to the bikes. So roughly the same points and damage output. The biggest reason to take them over havocs, is that the unit of bikers are faster (don't need a transport or waste time footsloggin) and tougher (T5, and 6W). 

Give them MoS and use the Slaanesh strat that lets them fire twice, and they can throw out a lot of hits at their target.

Edited February 15, 2018 by intel31337

[Panzer]

Yes they can hurt MEQ with Flamer as well but it shouldn't be their prime target since stuff with proper AP is even better against MEQs but wasted against most GEQs.

 

A unit of 3 with two Flamer, three Combi-Bolter and a Combi-Flamer kills about 3 Marines on average but that's only if you didn't advance that turn due Combi-Bolter being Rapid fire instead of Assault. After advancing you'd kill only 1-2 Marines with the 3 Flamer.

On that note, you'd be probably charging them as well if you play Renegades so you'd have the melee attacks on top of that. So lets say 2xChainswords (no melee weapon for the Champion since he already has the Combi-Flamer) = one more dead Marine with a bit of luck (0.67 unsaved wounds).

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Daemonettes and Hellflayers are so cheap that I would think, off the top of my head, that you could take 60 Daemonettes to drop right in your opponent's face with the DS stratagem, 5 Hellflayers and a Herald on a Seeker Chariot and still have room for a sizeable CSM Outrider Detachment.

 

Slaanesh pairs really well with Night Lords if you happen to take Cacophonic Choir on your Herald(s).

 

EDIT - I checked my spreadsheet; 3 Heralds on foot, 60 Daemonettes with 3 Instruments, a Herald on Seeker Chariot and 5 Hellflayers costs 1,219 points and gives you 7 CP, so...

Edited February 15, 2018 by Res Ipsa Loquitur

[WickedJester1013]

 

 

So the main reason is from a modeling standpoint, I have been taking chaos knights from old fantasy models and converting them to bikers. My main squeeze so to speak are the thousand sons and deathguard. So I’m not looking to run a full army, but maybe 2-3 units and some war machines and fire support.

Oh that's totally fine. Bikes are decent utility units to harass the flanks.

For that job I'd definitely take them as Renegade detachment, Mark of Khorne + Icon for the charge re-roll and most likely Flamer since Meltaguns would be too expensive and paint a big target on their heads. Just move them up the flank asap and charge some annoying shooty unit so it has to fall back or some GEQ/MEQ to prevent it from reaching objectives for a turn or two.

 

Not sure what you'd want for firesupport in that detachment tho since TSons and DG already have plenty access to that iirc.

[WickedJester1013]

It is not really about why I feel I need to, my main drive is conversions and taking some crazy idea and giving it form, I just like the option to put those models to use. The tactical factory is the speed as well, deathguard are not that fast. Also it doesn’t HAVE to only support the guard/sons, but could be a mix or a separate faction for fluffy reasons.

IMO that is what makes chaos so cool is that option for anything. Cool new model? Chaos conversions, any sort of fluff ranging from pure hatred of the deathguard to the unknown of the fallen.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Rulewise, Renégates chapters are cool for a biker detachment. Biker with melta or flamers can advance, shoot, charge.

 

You also have to consider Black Legion, you cant charge if you advance, but you can fire even with your combi-bolter. And, let's be honest, Biker (and chaos space marine in general) are better for intimal dakka dakka than pure close combat.

[WickedJester1013]

What makes bikes better at Dakka over melee Mr Dream?

[Panzer]

What makes bikes better at Dakka over melee Mr Dream?

Basically everything. Bikes don't have much going for them in melee. Two S4 AP0 D1 attacks per Biker if you give them a Chainsword and a Powerweapon on the Champion. On the other hand they all have Combi-Bolter (4 S4 AP0 D1 shots at 12"), two of them a special weapon (Flamer, Plasma gun or Meltagun) and the Champion a Combi-Weapon.

 

If you send them into melee it's not because they are going to kill a lot of stuff there but because they are fast and durable enough to bind some shooty unit so he has to fall back (doesn't work against units with FLY keyword obviously).

Edited February 16, 2018 by sfPanzer

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Exactly what sFPanzer said : An usual biker is 2 attacks S4 0AP 1dmg in close while 2 attacks S4 0AP 1dmg in 24" and 4 attacks S4 0AP 1dmg in 12". So yes close combat attacks won't have the eventually penalty of cover and you could put some close combat weapons in your biker champ hands.

 

But the more effective way to use biker is to get combi-bolter, 3 combi-weapons per squad (combi-bolter are nice if you run short on points) and reach those sweet 12". VotLW allow some surprise if your opponent didnt think 3 bikers dont have enought punch with only bolter. 

 

Get them chainsword as the pistol is useless when you'll always use the bike combibolter. Charge is only for finishing a squad or prevent it from firing next turn 

[WickedJester1013]

Mmmmm I see. Typically I play 1000-1500, would love to take some Dakka daemon machine, love the forgefiend/mauler model. Would you run several 3-4 man squads? Or a couple bigger squads? Also in a list based off some bikers and fiends, what else would you fill the ranks with? I was thinking cultists and jump pack sorcer but I don’t know what the weakness or holes that would need to be fielded. I have not played chaos much since 4th ed.

[Maschinenpriester]

I guess it also depends on what you want to do. I was thinking about 2 squads of tree with 3 meltas each to go tankhuning. Maybe accompanied by a lord on a bike for rerolls + extra melta. Besides you could use them to cross the enemy lines fast and get the extra point. i also assume 2 small squads are less problematic with morale + extra attack (one more seageant) + you could also shott one more combi memta with both components to kill weaker targets. Besides i also thingk 2 squads are easier to hide behind terrain.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Get a max sized unit of 9 Slaanesh bikes. Put an extra combi-bolter on the champion (giving him TWO). I would ironically suggest you go Iron Warriors for that detachment to get access to the 6+ wound ignore stratagem and put your Warlord as a Slaanesh Flying Daemon Prince, also Iron Warriors, with the Cold and Bitter Warlord trait, Prescience, and the Delightful Agonies power. The Warlord will, of course, also benefit things like Oblits, Termies, or Raptors that you drop in near the bikes (or more bikes if you really want to).

 

Now that one unit of bikes ignores morale, ignores cover (which is good on weapons with low AP like Combi-Bolters), hits on 2+, rerolling 1's, and can roll 5+ to ignore wounds, followed by a 6+ from Iron Without, Iron Within if you need it. Give most of the bikers Chainswords, since they can't fire Pistols and Combi-Bolters on the same turn. Take 2 Plasmas on the Special Weapon folks (hand carried-NOT on the Bikes) so that they have the same range as the Bolters, give you a little punch, and won't malfunction on Supercharge.

 

Other similar units of bikers could be used and they'd get the morale, cover-ignore, and reroll benefits, but not the power or stratagems, obviously, since those are 1 unit at a time.

 

As a result of the above, that one unit will have 40 Str 4, shots that ignore cover, along with 4 Plasma shots. You should hit with around 38 of the bolter shots and 3-4 Plasma each time you fire. You're going to obliterate roughly 9 Guardsmen with one pull of the trigger, plus whatever you put the Plasmas into.

 

Then you do it again. Then you find yet another soft unit to charge with all those Chainswords (with Prescience and Delightful Agonies still active) and do what you need to do with your Warlord wherever you need him.

 

Now, you're going to take the Warlord anyway, so I'm not going to count the points for him.

 

The bikes come to 207+20 for the Bolters +26 for the Plasma = 253. 263 with an Icon if you want to murder Imperial chaff specifically.

 

Hilariously, the same unit, with Vets of the Long War is taking roughly 8 wounds off a Leman Russ per time it shoots if it concentrates all fire, or 4 wounds off the Russ with the Plasmas (supercharged, because why not when Prescience is active) while killing a bunch of screening Guardsmen in front of it....and then charge-locking said Russ or another unit with Death to the False Emperor popping off on 4's.

 

You can do a Black Legion version that's more independent, with the ability to Advance and shoot everything as Assault instead of Rapid while redeploying a significant distance, and the ability to use Stratagems to reroll 1's and still benefit from a different HQ type for your Warlord, like a Sorcerer, while your warlord hands out the Death to the False Emperor bonus instead of relying on the icon. You also get +1 Leadership to help manage the large unit size.

 

Your choice.

 

TLDR: Large, specialized bike units can do very mean things to chaff without breaking the bank.

Edited February 17, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch