sunspear Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I'm seriously thinking about starting a CSM army and I have a fondness for basic troops (albeit with marks or cult troops). I don't see many basic chaos marines in armies, is this just because I see a lot of net lists or are they that bad? I have noticed people using berserkers, so if they are a decent choice I could use them. I know a lot of people use cultists, and I like them, but what about traitor marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 They are decent but the current rules just favour Cultists as your basic troop choice and then spend point on other more specialised Marine units like Terminators etc. In a not super competetive environment you can totally play a list without Cultists and a focus on basic Chaos Marines. It just will fall behind against stronger lists. If you decide to play TSons, DG, EC or WE you get additional basic troop options in form of Rubric Marines, Plague Marines, Noise Marines or Berzerker which all are good options to take tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Depends on what you call "troop". - If you are talking about the troop chooce, i would say go for Death Guard, Emperor's Children, World Eater or Thousand Son as their basic troop are Plagues, Noise, Berzekers or Rubrics are solid as a core for your list (Plague not so much, but the 3 others yes). So even if cultist (or poxwalkers, Tzangors) are great, you can still build a list without them. But if you are talking about the models (and i think you are), who care if they are troop, support or elite ? You can make an army without troop (but with fewer CP). And if your love goes for the "simple" legionnary you can also consider a Black Legion, Iron warriors or Alpha legion army. Forget the troop slot and put cult troop (as elite) and havok. Those are the same models, their are "basic" legionnaries but much more efficient than the standard CSM squad. And ofc, as sfPanzer said : CSM troop are an "average" unit. In a tournament you wont see them because cultist and cult troop are more efficient, but in friendly games you can have lots of fun with them. Don't let the actual tournament meta dictate your army if you are to play in friendly game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McElMcNinja Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I do not own the chaos codex, but I have been thinking of picking it up. I've been toying with the idea of running an unaligned army (non-competitive). Is it worth running them from chaos codex or are the plain chaos marines not even worth taking? This would be without having any of the cult troops in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I do not own the chaos codex, but I have been thinking of picking it up. I've been toying with the idea of running an unaligned army (non-competitive). Is it worth running them from chaos codex or are the plain chaos marines not even worth taking? This would be without having any of the cult troops in it. Same answer as above since you pretty much asked the same question as the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 It comes down to how you intend to play as mentioned. The likes of CSM and Tacs aren't the most competitive choices, however if you're not playing in a competitive environment your CSM will be fine. They won't be winning you games single-handedly, but they won't be useless either. Better to have a particular role for them, I've found my Slaaneshi CSM squads quite nice for chopping things up. With character support especially they do well handling the enemy line units so my heavy lifters can do the meaty work unimpeded Akrim and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think in standard CSM vs. loyalists or CSM vs. CSM battles they'd do just fine, provided both players are running roughly equivalent lists. No Guilliman, no shenanigans, etc. A good ol' fashioned power armor fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Lately I've also been taking CSM in squads of 10 with 2 lascannons. As people noted, this configuration is certainly better in casual games. But a 10 wound, somewhat cheap, obsec unit kicking out 2 lascannon shots a turn has done good work for me. Panzer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McElMcNinja Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) I do not own the chaos codex, but I have been thinking of picking it up. I've been toying with the idea of running an unaligned army (non-competitive). Is it worth running them from chaos codex or are the plain chaos marines not even worth taking? This would be without having any of the cult troops in it. Same answer as above since you pretty much asked the same question as the OP. Sorry, it appeared he was wanting to add berserkers and such. Edited February 18, 2018 by McElMcNinja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What about running chosen instead, forgoing the troops slot as has been suggested? They cost as much as zerkers but get extra attacks and options (less heavy weapons though, and sadly cant equip all 10 with different things). Chosen and havocks in a alpha legion army would do terrible things to armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What about running chosen instead, forgoing the troops slot as has been suggested? They cost as much as zerkers but get extra attacks and options (less heavy weapons though, and sadly cant equip all 10 with different things). Chosen and havocks in a alpha legion army would do terrible things to armies. Chosen are honestly the weakest choice in the whole Codex if you ask me. Not as cost-efficient as Havocs for shooting, not as good as Possessed and Berzerker for melee and also not cheap and/or durable enough for Objective Holding duty to be a better pick than ObSec Chaos Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intel31337 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I agree with sfPanzer. I feel they need to distinguish chosen some how. They are in an odd spot where no matter how you try to build them, there are other options that outshine them in that role - and for fewer points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourged Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I think the only "unique" thing Chosen can do (that I've read about) is cheap-ish combi-bolters and combi-flamers. They're less than half the cost of a Terminator squad when equipped with equal guns. Or, add a 6th Chosen with heavy bolter, throw them in a Rhino with a second combi-bolter attached, and the two squads are literally the same cost. Same investment, but with a bit of extra shots thrown in and a vehicle hull to use for whatever. Now does that make Chosen useful? I mean... probably not. It's all still just bolter fire (or flamers if you go the combi-flamer route). Use infiltrate and you can have yourself a squad of AL Headhunters, so that's neat. But yeah... Chosen really need something else besides this. Make them mini Exalted Champions: W2, WS2+(maybe? or maybe just on champ?), re-roll failed Wound rolls of 1 for the unit? Of course doing that I feel like this would end up invalidating Possessed so... yeah... I don't know. Better yet, give them the Plague Marine treatment: a brand new kit that includes brand new weapon options to the faction, and specific to the unit: Possessed bolters, Kai guns, mini-Daemon weapons, Ether lances... something! Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intel31337 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Make them body guards for characters, so you can put wounds on a chosen rather than take it on a character within 6". It is a unique role compared to other units, and it fits with fluff (they are typically chosen by a Lord - Abaddon's chosen would probably take a bullet for him right?). Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Definitely a cool role, but if they never get the defensive options that loyalists do (I.e. storm shield) their only value is as fodder using standard gear kept as cheap as possible, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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