Non-tzaangor. Viable?

[Prometheo567]

Hi, brothers of Tizca.

I am recently returning to this army I have collected since 5th edition. Last time I played these guys I used cultist swarms and small rubric units on razorback/wannabe (havoc) rhinos with some daemonforge support. That is what most of my collection is about.

I see that on out most recent incarnation tzaangors are the coolest thing since sliced bread, and I really can see why. No argument there that they make the competitive choice but... I really don't like them on 40k and I don't think I will be using TS in the future if I'm to use them in order to be semi-competitive.

My meta is semi-competitive to casual, so I wonder if it is reasonable to keep using cultists for the bullet-sponge role they have always played (now that going to ground doesn't exist anymore) and use small units of rubrics (both sizes) supported by numerous sorcerers, a demon prince and diverse daemonengines. Would I be hindering myself too much?

 

I also have a medium sized tzeentch daemon force with a strong horror component which I could summon in order to build table presence if needed. Is that even viable nowadays that the good old horror battery thing is gone?

Thank you for the answers and sorry for the incoherent ramble.

[Panzer]

You can easily replace the basic Tzaangors with Cultists, however I do think the Tzaangors are a lot stronger than Cultists. It should be fine in a casual/semi-competetive meta tho.

[WarriorFish]

If their role is chiefly to be cheaper and absorb bullets, Cultists shouldn't be too bad I don't think? Especially if you're not looking for crunch lists?

[Prometheo567]

Amazing. Thank you both for your answers.

 

It seems like I should start painting these 45 cultists.

[BoomWolf]

Its also still perfectly viable to run a whole bunch of allied horrors as your meatshields, tzeentch daemons as a whole synergies rather well with us.

 

You need SOME sort of chaff, it can be birds, cultists or horrors.

 

Birds and cultists are easier, as it means your troop slots are filled in the TS depatment, and you don't need rubrics.

But if you got rubrics anyway, allied horrors work just as well, and a daemon detachment can unlock a few intresting stratagems, combos and general mischief opportunities.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I run 1k sons lists of all stripes, If you wanted to do large numbers of cultists backed up by rubrics and other non-goat stuff you most certainly can. 

And in the vast overwhelming majority of metas it will function just fine, Cultists fill the horde roll with us just as well as any other. 

[Thousand Sons Sorcerer]

You should be fine in a Semi-Competitive/Casual.

[bozo69pd]

If you don't mind dipping into a CSM allied detachment then you can use the tide of traitors stratagem on them. This is in my opinion the best bubblewrap in the game.

 

I just finished Talon of Horus and Black Legion novels and having an Abaddon detachment could be pretty darn empowering to your cultists! 12" fearless aura!

[Prometheo567]

Exciting ideas indeed!

 

Thank you again.

[Zodd1888]

Regarding cultists, I actually started thinking about Orlocks painted as Desert scouts, goggles to block the Sand and Warp storms

[Sonoftherubric21]

Regarding cultists, I actually started thinking about Orlocks painted as Desert scouts, goggles to block the Sand and Warp storms

 

Its not just me!!!!! 

 

Orlocks look GREAT, and with the proper heads would be perfect tzeentch cultists given their look. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

Heres a battle report with very few tzaangors (7 to be exact, 6 enlightened and one shaman) the rest fo the list is cultists, and rubrics with a walker and some rhinos. 
 

Had a game last night at 1500
 

HQ termie sorcerer familiar/sword 

Exalted on disc seers bane with duel sword load out
Exalted on disc stave/pistol helm of third eye (Magister warlord trait +1 to cast)

20 rubrics (two units of 10) in rhinos, 1 warp flamer and soul reaper in each unit.
20 cultists
helbrute plasma/missile 

6 enlightened with bows
Tzaangor shaman

1 chaos spawn

1 chaos spawn.

1500 point list. 

My opponent was using ultras, 20 snipers (2 units of 10) 

Chapter master

Lieutenant

Banner of "shoot if killed" 

and Hellblaster unit 10 man squad

2 squads of 5 intercessors. 

3 units of inceptors, 3 with plasma guns, and 6 with "assault bolters" all in deepstrike

 

His list is mean, we are playing tactical objectives. I draw poorly and dont get much worth while.  However; First turn goes to me, fly up the table with most of what i have on discs and rhinos and spawn being relatively fast the army moves fairly quickly up the board. First cast of the game goes to my shaman...immediately perils on a 12 bringing him down to 1 wound...good start......

The bows shoot and then charge a unit of intercessors, the intercessors are brought down to one model.  Both rhinos go full distance and pop smoke. 

I didnt do much first turn, and I dont score any of my objectives. next turn he retreats the one intercessor, and the 10 hellblasters (losing 1 of their number) annihilate the enlightened squad; talk about overkil!!! 

The intercessors drop and due to my poor placement have shots at my Shaman and my Seers bane exalted.... bad placement on my part, he kills both easily, and then fires one intercessor unit into a chaos spawn killing one of the two, snipers plinked away at the rhinos since everything else that was viable was out of range. 

So that turn he killed my enlightened, my shaman, one of my chaos spawn, and my exalted sorcerer.....not a great start for the sons. 

Next turn I move up the rubrics, the second exalted (warlord) with all 20 cultists move up into charge/double tap range against the Inceptors which are fairly jumbled  together.  I move up the rubrics out of the rhinos into double tap range of the hellblasters....however there is still....that flag......  So I use spell familiar and swap my buff spells to damage spells. and the landing Terminator Sorcerer with the Rubrics for more dakka and casting. 

Thanks to the thousand sons +6 inch range buff I can cast prescience from my exalted warlord onto the rubrics about to plug the hellblasters off the table. one of the two squads is buffed with prescience, the other is stag but still....inferno weapons FTW. 

The issue is...he still has that flag (you know the one...the relic one...)....so during the casting phase I target the flag bearer with Tzeentchs Firestorm...I roll THREE 6's, bringing him down to 2 wounds remaining, then I toss an infernal gaze on him from the terminator sorcerer...dealing another 2 wounds killing the flag bearer meaning that when you kill the hellblasters they cannot fire back....fantastic!   He looks me dead in the eye and says "everyone ignores the flag carrier....no ones ever targeted him before..." 

 

Shooting time.....Prescience rubrics, with liberal use of VOTLW and non-prescienced rubrics open up on the hellblaster squad.....bringing the 9 man unit down to 2 remaining models, even without nearby exalted re rolls (since he plugged the exalted with seers bane)  And this was IN cover.  Inferno weapons; Gotta love em. 

 

the cultists and exalted warlord open up on the intercessors, and to my shock the cultists with some RR1's help from the Exalted actually are able to kill THREE intercessors, the exalted fires dealing a single wound with his inferno-pistol, then the entire blob charges. the cultists are able to kill another in combat, and the exalted kills one more.  his 9 intercessors come down to 1 plasma, and 3 heavy bolter intercessors remaining. Not terrible for cultists. Hilarious final point; He FAILS his morale check with the hellblasters.....re rolls it...and gets a 6. the remaining hellblasters run off the table! 

 

His turn rolls around, he opens fire with the snipers, ALL 20 fire at my terminator sorcerer.......and through a miracle he lives. with a SINGLE wound left. Could not believe it.  To clarify; this is with chapter master re-rolls AND lieutenant re-rolls....

That turn he retreats the inceptors and fires at the cultists killing 8. he puts a couple wounds on a rhino, brings the termie sorcerer to 1 wound remaining. and his chapter master and lieutenant charge my rubric squad killing 8 of the 10. at the end of that turn the one rubric squad fails morale badly and runs off the table as well (WHY?!?!) 

At that point we had to call it as he had an appointment 30 minutes later, but it was a tie game via objective points as my next round of cards was far better and I scored some from the first turn. I was assuming he would just rofl-stomp me off the table with alist like that, and first turn I made some very bad mistakes (sling-shotting the discs up the table...I keep forgetting our BOWS have a 24 inch range lol) 

It was a rough game, but the fact that i was able to even it out...using rubrics and Cultists no less, against what many would consider a "competetive" army really speaks to the strengths of the list.  

 

---- This was a bad example of Exalted use, as snipers give any "character" model a bad day....especially ones with huge hats....