Are Plague Marines Competetive?

[Prot]

Wow mcNinja that’s a heavy duty squad. I use a flail and fist with shooty blended in.

 

I’m losing my love of the fist though. Funny it just seems to miss so often. And yea I love the look of the heavy cleaver but it’s pretty bad.

[Plaguecaster]

I usually find that sticking a Tallyman near a unit with cleavers works pretty well in making them more reliable due to the rerolls from the tallyman's aura yeah flail is still better but I just like the looks of the cleaver so much more though I don't always field CC plague marine squads just sometimes to see how they go

[BlackTriton]

I find the cleaver in competition with the fist in my list.

The fist win cause its cheaper and can be equiped by the champion, giving me 2 swing. So much more value.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Man I feel like I'm the most unlucky one here. The lists I play against are usually something like a Kronos nid list with 12 hive guard and 6 biovores, or some contrived ynnari dark reaper bomb with hemlocks in tow.

 

I run 8 dudes but its bare bones aside from flails. Can't afford to invest in champion weapons or axes or anything 

[Prot]

Man I feel like I'm the most unlucky one here. The lists I play against are usually something like a Kronos nid list with 12 hive guard and 6 biovores, or some contrived ynnari dark reaper bomb with hemlocks in tow.

 

I run 8 dudes but its bare bones aside from flails. Can't afford to invest in champion weapons or axes or anything

 

I’m pretty sure you’re not the only one here who plays against cut throat lists. I play against my fair share. The thing is I’ll try new things, I mean the topic is about competitive Plague Marines. I’ve stated (as others have) they aren’t top their.

 

If I’m playing that kind of game I have one squad ( maybe 2 depending on the build) of 5 Plague Marines with 2 Blightlaunchers.

 

Actually I think you’re the pro plasma guy too. Ironically I also play against Nids like that and find Melta infinitely better against those armies. I can’t find room for melta on Plague Marines but my Blightlords run it all the time now.

 

I just had my last plasma experiment against IG parking lot with deep striking special weapons teams. Game was over once my Blightlords came in with plasma and tickled some vehicles.

 

In that game I tried 2 squads of Plague marines escorted by 3 Blight Haulers. They got raked pretty hard against Cadia re rolls.

 

So I think my Plague Marine experiment has gone pretty poorly for me. I think a heavier investment in Rhinos -might- help a little but even though we use ITC style terrain and dense coverage, I’m just honestly finding the majority of new codexes and strong builds annihilate me too quick to put real points into them.

 

I’m still feeling like points are just better spent elsewhere and keep troops to Cultists and Poxwalkers. Maybe for the sake of fluff I can get away with a few in a Rhino.

[McElMcNinja]

Now the termite sounds good too, I don't know how it was (if at) by the update. I assume you can still deploy it first turn, outside your deployment zone. Using that with the new puking DP and drones, that would give your opponent a lot of targets that he needs to take care of quickly. Somehow fit Morty in there and you've got a fast and deadly army.

[Plaguecaster]

Now the termite sounds good too, I don't know how it was (if at) by the update. I assume you can still deploy it first turn, outside your deployment zone. Using that with the new puking DP and drones, that would give your opponent a lot of targets that he needs to take care of quickly. Somehow fit Morty in there and you've got a fast and deadly army.

Damn I forgot that the Termite is set up at deployment and not deep striked in so it ignores the new Beta tactical reserves rule, that may prove very interesting and I'll have to try one out to see how they go

[Prot]

But if I understand the rules, you are still stuck inside for a turn, correct?

 

It’s not the end of the world ,and it does guarantee a fairly prime delivery location wise. The footprint is important too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Guys, it's totally deepstruck like normal. You deploy it and it's dudes in deepstrike, then they come in at the bed of the Movement phase. Unless they've updated its rules.

 

Prot I'll answer some of your points in a bit because they're interesting and deserve their own post

 

So recently I've been taking 2 5man squads of BlightLaunchers and one of plasma (champ has plasma) and the 8 bare bones bombardement marines in a rhino as more or less the core of my army. I have an arch contaminator lord in the middle of the ranged squads which are screened by 3 drones and a Daemon Prince. The 4 flying units provide a ton of early pressure and allow my marines to shoot a bit. I do think the grenade squad has survived so long because I only started using them a couple of games ago, but hosing down a tyrranofex and a ton of hive guard last game might start changing priorities. So I guess the tldr is that I've been having success with plaguemarines, but I think thats mostly because of the drone screen and target priority.

 

As for Blight Lords, theyre completely unviable for me right now regardless of gun. My buddy is taking 2-3 sporocysts a game so it's impossible to be anywhere important with all the mines floating about, eldar players take a ton of rangers and forward deploy them, Daemon players with nurglings.

[bozo69pd]

Yeah, it really is all about what you play against. If you aren't playing against the enemy codex top tier units, then sure take them. If I heard someone was playing mono Grey Knight codex, or pure Black Templars HECK YEAH I would take them. Oh wait those armies aren't good so barely anyone uses them.

[Dallas Drake]

I love hearing people's thoughts on PMs personally. I have been toing and froing over my Plague Marine builds, this weekend I have a mini tournament coming up - which list do people think is best and why? 2K regular Maelsttom missions.

 

List 1 - Cloud of Flies footslogging

[batallion] [Nurgle]

Daemon Prince w/talons
Poxbringer
Spitter Drone x 3
3 x Nurglings x 3

[batallion] [Death Guard]
Malignant Plaguecaster
Lord (Arch Contaminator)
Blightspawn x 2 (1 with Fulgaris Helm)
Blightbringer
Plague Marines x 15 (Launcher x 2, Flail x 2, Axe x 4, Champ w/Sword & plasma)
Cultists x 11
Cultists x 11
Spitter PBC x 2

13 CPs
2000 points

 

List 2 - Rhino Blightspawn bodyguards

[Outrider] [Nurgle]
Daemon Prince w/talons
Spitter Drone x 3
2 x Nurglings x 4

[batallion] [Nurgle]
Malignant Plaguecaster
Lord (Arch Contaminator)
Blightspawn x 2 (1 with Fulgaris Helm)
Biologus
Plague Marines x 5 (Launcher x 2)
Plague Marines x 5 (Launcher x 2)

Plague Marines x 6 (Flail x 2, Axe x 3, Champ w/Sword & plasma)
Cultists x 16

Rhino x 1
Spitter PBC x 2

9 CPs
1999 points

 

Basically, the 4 extra CPs I get in list 1 are there to throw Cloud of Flies on the PMs each turn as they stand behind the Drones/PBCs, plan is to advance 15 of them up as a blob using the Blightbringer with the Blightspawn and Lord/Caster all together. Alternative is 9 CPs and rely on the Rhino getting them close enough? Any thoughts/ideas? I can make small changes but nothing too massive as the game is this weekend. 2K against Astra, SMs, Nids and Eldar!

[Checkmate77]

Thanks for sharing DD,

 

Personally I like List 2 better.  I think the Rhino gives you a little more maneuverability, and the multiple PM units allow you occupy objectives better.

[bozo69pd]

You don't have a second DP instead of the lord? I vote list 2 I would add 1 more unit of nurglings though. I would cut cultists down to 10, they just die to moral anyways. I can't comment on biologus or blightspawn, never used them cuz I thought they seemed awesome looking but had useless rules.

[BlackTriton]

Blightspawn? useless? Have you seen his gun?

9" Assault 1d6 S2d6(avr 7) AP-3 D3

Although a bit random, it's average 3 shot of S7 AP-3 flat 3 damage! It's awsome!

Once you buy yourself that amasing weapon, in bonus he gives an anti fight aura (only use is to force the oponent to chose another charging unit to go first, so that you can interrupt) and a grenade that combo off the biologus.

 

The biologus dosent have any awsome weapon himself, but he enables a lot of mortal wounds. Plus S4 AP0 D2 is not bad, given how much you can have.

 

These character are what makes plague marine from an unasuming low potential unit to something potentially awesome. Plague marine act as body guard for the characters, and the caracters brings the pain. Or so I want to beleive.

 

 

I Too like the second list more if you're playing maelstrom. Though I have a soft spot for big unit of plagueMarine. Not having a biologus in your first list feels like a missed oportunity.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd always give the fugaris helmet to someone with a reroll 1 aura. 3" on the blightspawns radii is a big meh to me

[Dallas Drake]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, yeah I was leaning towards list 2 more, the Rhino does make it more likely I get those Blightspawn in range. bozo, blightspawn are terrific, last game I played them 1 took out a Ultramarines Dread in one turn, sure the weapon is random and you can roll bad but on average it is superb against tough targets the -3AP and 3 damage are nasty. I know the Nids player will bring lots of tough bugs and they will be key units for me I think.

Okay, I'll run list 2 and drop some cultists in favour of a few more Nurglings & try to get them 3 units of 3 instead. Not sure I can get a second DP in there without losing a Drone, I only have 1 DP model too so that's an issue for the weekend too. Thanks for the feedback guys!

[Praetoria]

I like list two ill be using a very tank heavy list for a tournament in July that is sort of similar to it.

 

Blightspawns are awesome, mine destroyed two grey knight dreadnoughts in two separate overwatch phases and then finished of a dreadknight across three turns.

[Checkmate77]

Quick question, and as it pertains to PMs I thought I'd just post it here vs. trying to start a brand new thread:

 

What are the rules for base sizes?  Specifically, as I have been playing Deathguard for a very long time, the bases on my PMs are all much smaller than they are on the new ones.  While this has never been a problem in friendly match-up games, what about in a tournament environment?  Is/Can this be a potential issue?

[Prot]

GW has said they don't have real base standards. The store I was just at said they've even asked this and there is no official set base, just use what you like within reason. They aren't even consistent themselves anymore. Some models ship with 40mm and the same type of unit might ship with a 50mm.

 

For your specific issue there is no problem using 25mms.

[Panzer]

There are no official rules for base sizes. Just go with the usually accepted "the base the model gets delivered with or larger" and you should be on the save side.

The new Plague Marines should have the regular Space Marine base size I think?

[Checkmate77]

Thanks guys, that makes me feel a lot better, If I had to rebase my 70+ Plague Marines I was going to have a Meltdown.   

[Bulwyf]

Plague marines are NOT useless. Just tonight I clubbed a Space Wolf player to submission by end of shooting in turn three with this list that features Plague Marines and doesn't even do the grenades for all strategy:

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [96 PL, 1658pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Revoltingly Resilient, 5. Putrescent Vitality, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: 5. Putrescent Vitality, 6. Curse of the Leper

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 129pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [10 PL, 129pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [10 PL, 129pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

Helbrute [7 PL, 130pts]: Power scourge, Reaper autocannon

Helbrute [7 PL, 165pts]: Power scourge, Twin lascannon

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 152pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Rothail volley gun

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - FW Heretic Astartes) [16 PL, 341pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 341pts]: Butcher cannon array, 2x Hellflamer
. Hellforged siege claw: Meltagun

++ Total: [112 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[Sonoftherubric21]

As a point for Plague marines, I don't "spam" them as I cannot, I play Black Legion.  That being said; they feature in almost EVERY list I run. A unit of somewhere between 6 and 12 usually features in almost any of my lists. Sometimes two, but generally one squad.

 

The unit either has trip plasma, or Plasma and duel Blight Launchers (love that gun!!) with a couple with a flail of corruption or axe/plague knife for the extra melee attacks.   Within the Black Legion they really work well in my list build as said before; objective holders!  They hold onto an important mid-field objective while the Chaos Marine Squads, Zerkers, and Noise Marines clear other units.  

 

They have worked very well for me and often the thing that kills them has fired at them in lieu of firing at other (often more important) targets...... 

 

Based on the limitations of the current edition I don't think that a large troop section of JUST plague marines will work.  I think it will have to be a combined arms approach, perhaps 40-50 or so pox walkers backed up by another 20 plauge marines divided into 5/5/10 or 5/5/5/5 squads?   Something akin to that may work well.  Spamming marines this edition is a weak overall strategy  no matter which army does it. Less a fault of Plagues and more a fault of the edition being "horde favorable" I suppose you could say. 

 

While using my Thousand Sons I have had a similar issue with using Rubrics. Often a mixture of Goats / Rubrics is far better then just spamming one or the other. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Bulwyf, that list looks really sub standard in terms of efficacy. Plague marines can have more special weapons, dronea can have better weapons, PBC can have better weapons, typhus can be a Plague caster, poxwalkers can be cultists, dreads can have more guns, warlord trait can be arch contaminator.

 

It doesn't even look like your plaguemarines do that much shooting output

[bozo69pd]

I am not sure how terrible space wolves are right now, but I know DG is one of the most powerful armies. Bulwyf that looks like a nice friendly game list, but I am pretty sure I would have nothing left on the table after turn 2 except the walkers with Typhus, and the plague marines. The damage output with just those units wouldn't win me a game. Also why did you bring putrescent vitality twice when it can only be cast once, and WTH curse of the leper. You should have miasma and blades of virulence in there somewhere.