Are Plague Marines Competetive?

[Bulwyf]

I am not sure how terrible space wolves are right now, but I know DG is one of the most powerful armies. Bulwyf that looks like a nice friendly game list, but I am pretty sure I would have nothing left on the table after turn 2 except the walkers with Typhus, and the plague marines. The damage output with just those units wouldn't win me a game. Also why did you bring putrescent vitality twice when it can only be cast once, and WTH curse of the leper. You should have miasma and blades of virulence in there somewhere.

 

Curse of leper works wonders on elite infantry like Wulfen that I know are going to come try and kill Typhus and the troop line in front of him. Their storm shields aren't saving them against mortal wounds.

 

The BS list didn't pick it up when I picked another spell for Typhus.

 

I'm not sure why you would have nothing left on the table after turn 2. 2 helbrutes, a Levi dread and two foetid drones that are going straight for the enemy vehicles means they have a lot of things to shoot at.

[Bulwyf]

Bulwyf, that list looks really sub standard in terms of efficacy. Plague marines can have more special weapons, dronea can have better weapons, PBC can have better weapons, typhus can be a Plague caster, poxwalkers can be cultists, dreads can have more guns, warlord trait can be arch contaminator.

 

It doesn't even look like your plaguemarines do that much shooting output

 

I know PM can have more special weapons but I've already got two plasma in three squads. I have to fit this in a 2k list after all. The PBC has the best weapon options. Poxwalkers work better for me than cultists since it is a bolter shield that won't run in morale phase. Dreads don't need more guns since I run my dreads with one melee and one ranged option. It works fantastically for me in whatever army I run. People either try to DS or assault them or they don't shoot at them. 

Warlord trait for me works better in that list with what I use the DP for.

 

Appreciate the criticism though.

[bozo69pd]

I have just learned to fear dark reapers, fire dragons, lances, dark lances, and blasters so much. From my experience helbrutes die to 2 blaster shots... and my opponents usually have 10 units with 1 hidden in each.

[Prot]

DE are ridiculous. I just played a few games against them, one I did a brief batrep with here, and poison combined with lances and speed with cc squads with invulnerable saves is pretty gross. You need gobs of Psychic stuff to farm down their throats.

[DominikB]

DE are ridiculous. I just played a few games against them, one I did a brief batrep with here, and poison combined with lances abs speed with cc squads with invulnerable saves is pretty gross. You need gobs of Psychic stuff to farm down their throats.

Played a list like this with some eldar pyschers including elf Rad, it was nasty

[bozo69pd]

I am actually rooting for loyalists here, I wish deathwatch would burn Eldar xenos to the ground.

[Checkmate77]

@Bulwyf, what has been your experience with Revoltingly Resilient combined with Suppurating  Plate?  I've thought about using that combination too, but Arch Contaminator has so far been the staple I go back to. 

 

Overall, happy to see some more success stories with PMs

[SkimaskMohawk]

Looks like I missed you answer bulwyf. There's a lot of niggling points in both of them so I just combined it into one big answer.

 

 

 

Curse of leper works wonders on elite infantry like Wulfen that I know are going to come try and kill Typhus and the troop line in front of him. Their storm shields aren't saving them against mortal wounds.

 

The BS list didn't pick it up when I picked another spell for Typhus.

 

I'm not sure why you would have nothing left on the table after turn 2. 2 helbrutes, a Levi dread and two foetid drones that are going straight for the enemy vehicles means they have a lot of things to shoot at.

 

I know PM can have more special weapons but I've already got two plasma in three squads. I have to fit this in a 2k list after all. The PBC has the best weapon options. Poxwalkers work better for me than cultists since it is a bolter shield that won't run in morale phase. Dreads don't need more guns since I run my dreads with one melee and one ranged option. It works fantastically for me in whatever army I run. People either try to DS or assault them or they don't shoot at them. 

Warlord trait for me works better in that list with what I use the DP for.

 

Appreciate the criticism though.

 

 

Curse of the leper is a really subpar power; high casting value of 7, short ranged and forced to hit the closest unit, with needing to pass the toughness value meanining that you average about 2 mortal wounds against t4. Compare that to smite, where you have the same targeting restriction, longer range, lower initial cast value and average out to about 2 wounds...the comparison isn't favorable. That being said, I've had it work ok with a plaguecaster who had purely offensive spells to compliment his fallout, leaving buffing to mortarion/daemonprince and typhus. The short range benefits proccing fallout, while the successful cast also lines up with it. On the whole though, its a rather poor decision to take over miasma or blades or vitality.

 

The "nothing left on the table" comment probably stems from the fact that helbrutes are fairly vulnerable compared to the daemon engines, of which your drones need to be in combat and your pbc can be ignored. With strong lists, they can reliably blow away a lot of your threats in 2 turns. Helbrutes easily, possibly leviathan and a drone turn 1, drone and prince turn 2. Note that when I say "strong" I mean like gunlines screened with chaf often with shoot twice stratagems.

 

You can drop the 6th member of your plague marine squads to get another plasma gun. There's really no point not to take all the guns you can; its one of their main benefits in that they're one of the few viable msu units left, especially when you've padded the squad with extra bolters. Plagueswords are also unnecessary.

 

I'm sorry to tell you, the PBC has the worst loadout you can give it. Plaguespitters let it be a threat at str 7 auto-hitting, while also having a great defensive statline; the rest of its guns being simple bonuses. Think of it as a better drone for the same points. Currently you need it to stay still to have a chance of doing anything while also paying more for all the guns.

 

Poxwalkers shouldn't be taken as insurance against bolters. They're not bad with typhus, but 2 units of 10 are really subpar. You can take 1 drop of 30 cultists and do better against bolters currently, and be more of a threat in total.

 

It sounds like you don't screen your dreads with the chaf? They should pretty much not be in a position to be assaulted, regardles of deepstrike changes. Your opponent not shooting them is confusing, since they're paper. Good positioning can get you more ranged firepower (if you take an extra gun), which your list lacks outside of the leviathan.

 

Arch contaminator would work better if your drones and pbc had spitters. 

 

If you tightened up your list and trimmed the fat, you'd have more points to spend, less drops and more ranged and forward pressure.

 

Last comment is I'm unsure how the marines were the star of the show in the list, with the unoptimal gear and no synergy.

[Bulwyf]

@Bulwyf, what has been your experience with Revoltingly Resilient combined with Suppurating  Plate?  I've thought about using that combination too, but Arch Contaminator has so far been the staple I go back to. 

 

Overall, happy to see some more success stories with PMs

 

I love it. Depending on what I'm facing, I can keep the DP back to give my dreds/PBC rerolls on 1 then move up to engage in CC. When the DP starts taking shots at some point in the game having that extra +1 to avoid wounds (along with the Plate for its goodness) just makes the DP a real delight in CC.

[Bulwyf]

Looks like I missed you answer bulwyf. There's a lot of niggling points in both of them so I just combined it into one big answer.

 

 

 

Curse of leper works wonders on elite infantry like Wulfen that I know are going to come try and kill Typhus and the troop line in front of him. Their storm shields aren't saving them against mortal wounds.

 

The BS list didn't pick it up when I picked another spell for Typhus.

 

I'm not sure why you would have nothing left on the table after turn 2. 2 helbrutes, a Levi dread and two foetid drones that are going straight for the enemy vehicles means they have a lot of things to shoot at.

 

I know PM can have more special weapons but I've already got two plasma in three squads. I have to fit this in a 2k list after all. The PBC has the best weapon options. Poxwalkers work better for me than cultists since it is a bolter shield that won't run in morale phase. Dreads don't need more guns since I run my dreads with one melee and one ranged option. It works fantastically for me in whatever army I run. People either try to DS or assault them or they don't shoot at them. 

Warlord trait for me works better in that list with what I use the DP for.

 

Appreciate the criticism though.

 

 

Curse of the leper is a really subpar power; high casting value of 7, short ranged and forced to hit the closest unit, with needing to pass the toughness value meanining that you average about 2 mortal wounds against t4. Compare that to smite, where you have the same targeting restriction, longer range, lower initial cast value and average out to about 2 wounds...the comparison isn't favorable. That being said, I've had it work ok with a plaguecaster who had purely offensive spells to compliment his fallout, leaving buffing to mortarion/daemonprince and typhus. The short range benefits proccing fallout, while the successful cast also lines up with it. On the whole though, its a rather poor decision to take over miasma or blades or vitality.

 

The "nothing left on the table" comment probably stems from the fact that helbrutes are fairly vulnerable compared to the daemon engines, of which your drones need to be in combat and your pbc can be ignored. With strong lists, they can reliably blow away a lot of your threats in 2 turns. Helbrutes easily, possibly leviathan and a drone turn 1, drone and prince turn 2. Note that when I say "strong" I mean like gunlines screened with chaf often with shoot twice stratagems.

 

You can drop the 6th member of your plague marine squads to get another plasma gun. There's really no point not to take all the guns you can; its one of their main benefits in that they're one of the few viable msu units left, especially when you've padded the squad with extra bolters. Plagueswords are also unnecessary.

 

I'm sorry to tell you, the PBC has the worst loadout you can give it. Plaguespitters let it be a threat at str 7 auto-hitting, while also having a great defensive statline; the rest of its guns being simple bonuses. Think of it as a better drone for the same points. Currently you need it to stay still to have a chance of doing anything while also paying more for all the guns.

 

Poxwalkers shouldn't be taken as insurance against bolters. They're not bad with typhus, but 2 units of 10 are really subpar. You can take 1 drop of 30 cultists and do better against bolters currently, and be more of a threat in total.

 

It sounds like you don't screen your dreads with the chaf? They should pretty much not be in a position to be assaulted, regardles of deepstrike changes. Your opponent not shooting them is confusing, since they're paper. Good positioning can get you more ranged firepower (if you take an extra gun), which your list lacks outside of the leviathan.

 

Arch contaminator would work better if your drones and pbc had spitters. 

 

If you tightened up your list and trimmed the fat, you'd have more points to spend, less drops and more ranged and forward pressure.

 

Last comment is I'm unsure how the marines were the star of the show in the list, with the unoptimal gear and no synergy.

 

 

I don't move my PBC. Switching to a 9 inch weapon would make it useless. I also use the drones for CC. Their entire point is essentially fire and forget flying models that tie up enemy vehicles or heavy weapon squads. I make one of them blow up using the stratagem as well since I know the enemy will at some point kill one of them...while it is near their troops/vehicles. 

 

Your advice is ok on some points. You didn't ask how I play my army or what roles I use my units for. My choosing different options than you does not negate their value.

 

This is a list taking some of your suggestions but also keeping the units in the roles I envision for them. Every PM squad has 3 plasma guns plus a flail for the fight phase. Typhus can boost them with Blades since I keep them close to him.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [96 PL, 1668pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 1. Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

 

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 4. Blades of Putrefaction

 

+ Troops +

 

Plague Marines [10 PL, 152pts]

. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

Plague Marines [10 PL, 152pts]

. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

Plague Marines [10 PL, 152pts]

. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 102pts]: 17x Poxwalker

 

+ Elites +

 

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

 

Helbrute [7 PL, 130pts]: Power scourge, Reaper autocannon

 

Helbrute [7 PL, 130pts]: Power scourge, Reaper autocannon

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

 

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

 

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - FW Heretic Astartes) [16 PL, 329pts] ++

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 329pts]: Butcher cannon array, Butcher cannon array, 2x Hellflamer

 

++ Total: [112 PL, 1997pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[Checkmate77]

I like your idea of giving each PM squad a Flail of corruption.  I toyed with that Idea myself.....the goal being to not loose the PMs Mid-Range fire support while still allowing them to hold their own (at least somewhat) in CC. 

 

In your experience, how often are you PMs actually getting charged in the back field?  My alternative build right now is maximizing the flails for my PMs pushing forward in Rhinos while I have 1-2 Squads only with Ranged weapons staying in the back. 

 

You're one of the few people I've seen still running Hellbrutes.  I have two myself, but in 8th edition they haven't seen much action, as SkimaskMohawk points out, they are like paper and go down fairly quickly.  How do you maximize their survivability?

 

Finally, I like your use of a Hellforged unit.  I am playing around with a list which takes a Hellforged Predator for some LR support for a fast-moving DG Army.  I'm debating this model because a) it can actually hold it's own in CC, thus negating the need to babysit it too much and b) because I finally want to use my awesome converted Possessed Predator from last edition which also has seen little play time in 8th.  I just love the model.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I didnt ask how you play your army, because it seems fairly straightforward from a game play perspective. Screen your shooting units with chaf, put pressure on the enemy with your flying units. Similarily, I expect strong lists to have screens to prevent melee units from easily getting to high priority shooting units. There's nothing about your list that makes me think it gets played differently.

 

What makes plaguemarines so great, especially the really non synergy versions you run?

 

What makes you convinced that the Plaguespitters are useless? You understand they're the most competitive weapon in the book for a reason right? The multiple PBC lists only used spitters.

 

My not agreeing with weapon loadouts and unit choices certainly doesn't make them not good. But the experience I have playing really good lists, the results of tournaments and your lack of explaining how your choices actually hold more value certainly doesn't swing the pendulum back in your favour.

 

For example, drones with spitters. They can move faster and do damage thanks to advanceing and a 9" shooting attack. They can target units behind screens because it's a shooting attack. They can charge the next then to tie up (same speed as the melee versions in terms of tying up units). They can retreat and still use their main form of damage. They don't have the sheer damage potential of mowers, but they have more consistent output and can perform tying up actions better.

 

Some sort of explanation like that might go far in helping my understanding of what makes your list and choices so good

[Bulwyf]

I didnt ask how you play your army, because it seems fairly straightforward from a game play perspective. Screen your shooting units with chaf, put pressure on the enemy with your flying units. Similarily, I expect strong lists to have screens to prevent melee units from easily getting to high priority shooting units. There's nothing about your list that makes me think it gets played differently.

 

What makes plaguemarines so great, especially the really non synergy versions you run?

 

What makes you convinced that the Plaguespitters are useless? You understand they're the most competitive weapon in the book for a reason right? The multiple PBC lists only used spitters.

 

My not agreeing with weapon loadouts and unit choices certainly doesn't make them not good. But the experience I have playing really good lists, the results of tournaments and your lack of explaining how your choices actually hold more value certainly doesn't swing the pendulum back in your favour.

 

For example, drones with spitters. They can move faster and do damage thanks to advanceing and a 9" shooting attack. They can target units behind screens because it's a shooting attack. They can charge the next then to tie up (same speed as the melee versions in terms of tying up units). They can retreat and still use their main form of damage. They don't have the sheer damage potential of mowers, but they have more consistent output and can perform tying up actions better.

 

Some sort of explanation like that might go far in helping my understanding of what makes your list and choices so good

 

I said it was useless to me in  how I play the PBC. I only have one in the list. I don't push it aggressively with the rest of the army. It stays in the back and shoots so I can take more advantage of the longer ranged entropy cannons that gives me more Str 8 weapons. Everyone's meta is different but I face Space Wolves, Black Legion, Necrons and random SM factions typically. Most of those lists have vehicle heavy options. The two drones don't need to shoot, I can get fly them over the chaff units and into their vehicles. If they want to shoot at them, that's fine, it means less shots going against my Helbrutes and Levi. If they ignore them then I can tie up at least two heavy hitters on their army.

 

Plague marines are great because I value fluff more than anything. The fact I can put so many plasma guns and a flail in a list makes them even more deadly. They are great at holding objectives esp. when supported by HQ options.

 

For the previous poster asking me how do I make my helbrutes live longer? Simple. You give the enemy enough units to worry about that they simply can't shoot EVERY unit you have. For instance, in my list I have:

 

2 Drones

2 Helbrutes

1 Levi

1 PBA

 

That's six different vehicles to concern the other player with in the shooting phase. Of course they get focused, usually the Levi first then the helbrutes. They take a beating, absolutely, but generally stay on the table long enough to take out or severely weaken most if not all of the enemy heavy support. This is why I generally run the Levi with one claw and a grav bombard and the Helbrutes have one CC weapon. I will get DS or some webway shenanigans behind the lines and they can absolutely fend for themselves in CC that way. 

 

The PM marching up with Typhus using the PW as a screen can absorb enemy damage and dish it right back out. This list is not perfect but it does well against what I face in my meta. If I faced more horde lists which may happen when the Ork codex comes out and our several Ork players go back to their armies then I would make changes as needed.

 

I also have to ask as someone that doesn't list playing DG in their profile what 2k list YOU would run and your explanation of why you picked the units and their weapon options.

[Bulwyf]

I like your idea of giving each PM squad a Flail of corruption.  I toyed with that Idea myself.....the goal being to not loose the PMs Mid-Range fire support while still allowing them to hold their own (at least somewhat) in CC. 

 

In your experience, how often are you PMs actually getting charged in the back field?  My alternative build right now is maximizing the flails for my PMs pushing forward in Rhinos while I have 1-2 Squads only with Ranged weapons staying in the back. 

 

You're one of the few people I've seen still running Hellbrutes.  I have two myself, but in 8th edition they haven't seen much action, as SkimaskMohawk points out, they are like paper and go down fairly quickly.  How do you maximize their survivability?

 

Finally, I like your use of a Hellforged unit.  I am playing around with a list which takes a Hellforged Predator for some LR support for a fast-moving DG Army.  I'm debating this model because a) it can actually hold it's own in CC, thus negating the need to babysit it too much and because I finally want to use my awesome converted Possessed Predator from last edition which also has seen little play time in 8th.  I just love the model.

 

Every Chaos and DG player in my meta still uses their Helbrutes. Although two of the DG players still run 3 PBC after the FAQ.

 

My PMs get charged from Space Wolves, Blood Angels, those CC Necron units that are a **** to kill (hello Wulfen) and having a flail gives them some punch back. Generally speaking your opponent can't DS or charge all your units. If they are going to charge my helbrutes/Levi/PBC then they just lost their chance to take out my PM that are taking objectives and are a pain to remove with Typhus there to support them.

The main failing I see in most people's lists is when they only have say two or three dedicated anti vehicle in a list and are surprised when they get taken out so early. If you have, as I show in my list, 6 different things to shoot/DS/charge at...things get better for you. Honestly in my list the Foul Blightspawn is almost never used but he A. fits the fluff perfectly and B. has a wicked weapon. I envision it as spraying mutated Phosphex on the opponents. Most DG don't use them, at least in my area, but he can do a stunning amount of damage if you roll well on his Str and assault attack dice. I think my personal favorite is when he was hidden behind a line of PM and wiped out an entire Wulfen squad with one shooting phase. Those 77 points in my list just wiped out 231 points in his...

 

I haven't tried a Hellforged predator in a DG list. I hope you try it and let us know how it did for you.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

I said it was useless to me in  how I play the PBC. 

 

You didn't.

 

 It stays in the back and shoots so I can take more advantage of the longer ranged entropy cannons that gives me more Str 8 weapons.

  Remember how I suggested more guns on the helbrutes? Less cost, better chance to hit. 

 

Everyone's meta is different but I face Space Wolves, Black Legion, Necrons and random SM factions typically. Most of those lists have vehicle heavy options.

Remember how I suggested more guns on the helbrutes for anti tank?

 

The two drones don't need to shoot, I can get fly them over the chaff units and into their vehicles. If they want to shoot at them, that's fine, it means less shots going against my Helbrutes and Levi. If they ignore them then I can tie up at least two heavy hitters on their army.

You can literally accomplish the same thing, but with the addition of the best gun in the book. Nothing you've said has changed that.

 

 

Plague marines are great because I value fluff more than anything

....The thread is literally about using them in a competitive setting. Comments about them should somehow relate to their competitive nature.

 

 The fact I can put so many plasma guns and a flail in a list makes them even more deadly. 

 

But you didn't have either the max amount of plasma or any flails at the start of your comments. You only posted a list including that after some advice.

 

For the previous poster asking me how do I make my helbrutes live longer? Simple. You give the enemy enough units to worry about that they simply can't shoot EVERY unit you have. For instance, in my list I have:

 

2 Drones

2 Helbrutes

1 Levi

1 PBA

 

That's six different vehicles to concern the other player with in the shooting phase. Of course they get focused, usually the Levi first then the helbrutes. They take a beating, absolutely, but generally stay on the table long enough to take out or severely weaken most if not all of the enemy heavy support. This is why I generally run the Levi with one claw and a grav bombard and the Helbrutes have one CC weapon. I will get DS or some webway shenanigans behind the lines and they can absolutely fend for themselves in CC that way. 

 

On the whole, deepstrike has been neutered. They need to wait until turn 2  to place 9" away and try to charge, which is something like a 27% chance. Odds are they fail it meaning its now turn 3 before they can tie things up at best. Most deepstrike that kills units is still shooting, which luckily it seems like your opponents dont really have much of.

 

 I also have to ask as someone that doesn't list playing DG in their profile what 2k list YOU would run and your explanation of why you picked the units and their weapon options.

Because I have to have an army in my profile to play it a lot? Or have a valid opinion of it? 

 

Here's a better version of your initial list btw. You have more psychic denial, more shooting, more chaf, more vehicles, more synergy. 

 

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [109 PL, 1995pts] +++

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [93 PL, 1656pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

 

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, Warlord, Wings

 

+ Troops +

 

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 140pts]: 34x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun

. Cultist Champion: Autogun

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 124pts]

. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 124pts]

. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 124pts]

. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

 

+ Elites +

 

Helbrute [7 PL, 147pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

 

Helbrute [7 PL, 147pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

 

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

 

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - FW Heretic Astartes) [16 PL, 339pts] ++

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 339pts]: Grav-flux bombard, Grav-flux bombard, 2x Hellflamer

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

[McElMcNinja]

@Bulwyf: since you asked what others 2k lists look like, here's mine. Just a forewarning, it's not a conventional list and many don't like it.

 

Battalion Detachment

DP w/wings, sword, spewer, Suppurating Plate

Chaos Lord w/plasma p. & balesword

Sorcerer w/Mark of Nurgle, Death Guard legion, Force axe, plasma p., jump pack (index/warptime & infernal gaze)

7 PM w/4 axes, 2 flail, sword, plasma p.

8 PM w/2 launchers, sword, plasma g.

20 Poxwalkers

Chaos Rhino w/2x combo-bolter

3 Deathshroud Terminators w/4x gauntlets

 

Vanguard Detachment

DP of Chaos w/MoN, wings, sword (index/fleshy abundance)

Foul Blightspawn - Warlord w/arch contaminator

Biologus Blightspawn

Noxious Blightbringer

 

Super-heavy Support Detachment

Morty

 

It comes to 2,000 with 9 CP.

[SkimaskMohawk]

You can't take the jump sorc

[Bulwyf]

So...you can't come up

 

 

 

I said it was useless to me in  how I play the PBC. 

 

You didn't.

 

 It stays in the back and shoots so I can take more advantage of the longer ranged entropy cannons that gives me more Str 8 weapons.

  Remember how I suggested more guns on the helbrutes? Less cost, better chance to hit. 

 

Everyone's meta is different but I face Space Wolves, Black Legion, Necrons and random SM factions typically. Most of those lists have vehicle heavy options.

Remember how I suggested more guns on the helbrutes for anti tank?

 

The two drones don't need to shoot, I can get fly them over the chaff units and into their vehicles. If they want to shoot at them, that's fine, it means less shots going against my Helbrutes and Levi. If they ignore them then I can tie up at least two heavy hitters on their army.

You can literally accomplish the same thing, but with the addition of the best gun in the book. Nothing you've said has changed that.

 

 

Plague marines are great because I value fluff more than anything

....The thread is literally about using them in a competitive setting. Comments about them should somehow relate to their competitive nature.

 

 The fact I can put so many plasma guns and a flail in a list makes them even more deadly. 

 

But you didn't have either the max amount of plasma or any flails at the start of your comments. You only posted a list including that after some advice.

 

For the previous poster asking me how do I make my helbrutes live longer? Simple. You give the enemy enough units to worry about that they simply can't shoot EVERY unit you have. For instance, in my list I have:

 

2 Drones

2 Helbrutes

1 Levi

1 PBA

 

That's six different vehicles to concern the other player with in the shooting phase. Of course they get focused, usually the Levi first then the helbrutes. They take a beating, absolutely, but generally stay on the table long enough to take out or severely weaken most if not all of the enemy heavy support. This is why I generally run the Levi with one claw and a grav bombard and the Helbrutes have one CC weapon. I will get DS or some webway shenanigans behind the lines and they can absolutely fend for themselves in CC that way. 

 

On the whole, deepstrike has been neutered. They need to wait until turn 2  to place 9" away and try to charge, which is something like a 27% chance. Odds are they fail it meaning its now turn 3 before they can tie things up at best. Most deepstrike that kills units is still shooting, which luckily it seems like your opponents dont really have much of.

 

 I also have to ask as someone that doesn't list playing DG in their profile what 2k list YOU would run and your explanation of why you picked the units and their weapon options.

Because I have to have an army in my profile to play it a lot? Or have a valid opinion of it? 

 

 

Not going to quote crazy all the responses but I will try to address what you said.

 

Most glaringly is that while you criticize my list, which is fair, when asked to provide your own 2k list you offer nothing. Which, I might add, makes your criticisms spurious at best since you have absolutely no standard to hold any list against.

 

I can't accomplish my two drones with fleshmowers literally rolling over enemy vehicles if they have plaguespitters on them. I have nothing against them, sometimes I do run them with guns, but tying up vehicles with drones that can actually kill them in the Fight phase as opposed to just annoy them is  a huge difference. I did mention I use them as fire and forget with the strategium to explode them.

 

More guns on helbrute is nice but for the fact in my meta I know some kind of DS or flyer delivered CC is coming my way. Having the vehicles with no CC support is not competitive for me. I've tried all guns, sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.  The chances of it not working plus the added flexibility of putting my vehicles into CC with their ability to actually kill things is enough for me to point them out the way I do.

[Bulwyf]

@Bulwyf: since you asked what others 2k lists look like, here's mine. Just a forewarning, it's not a conventional list and many don't like it.

 

Battalion Detachment

DP w/wings, sword, spewer, Suppurating Plate

Chaos Lord w/plasma p. & balesword

Sorcerer w/Mark of Nurgle, Death Guard legion, Force axe, plasma p., jump pack (index/warptime & infernal gaze)

7 PM w/4 axes, 2 flail, sword, plasma p.

8 PM w/2 launchers, sword, plasma g.

20 Poxwalkers

Chaos Rhino w/2x combo-bolter

3 Deathshroud Terminators w/4x gauntlets

 

Vanguard Detachment

DP of Chaos w/MoN, wings, sword (index/fleshy abundance)

Foul Blightspawn - Warlord w/arch contaminator

Biologus Blightspawn

Noxious Blightbringer

 

Super-heavy Support Detachment

Morty

 

It comes to 2,000 with 9 CP.

 

How are you getting the sorc in your battalion list with warptime? I know you are using it for Morty but I thought you need a patrol detachment (usually) from CSM to get that option.

[McElMcNinja]

I use the index for the Sorcerer and 1 DP (both with the MoN and the Sorcerer gets the Death Guard legion trait). I put the DP with the elites cuz they don't really benefit from the DG advancing/holding obj. bonus. That way I get a jump pack and the spells that the codex doesn't have.

I run the CC squad in Rhino with the lord, Blightspawn, & Putrifier. I use the plague bomb every chance I get and the Blightspawn is just a beast. Mortarion is in combat turn 1 (well every game so far) and DP's are there to clean up. Poxwalkers and other marines go for objs. while the Blightbringer helps almost everyone move turn 1 and mostly 2 (plus he's not to shabby in CC). Everyone is also usually in range for all sorts of rerolling auras, I try to keep everything close.

[Bulwyf]

I use the index for the Sorcerer and 1 DP (both with the MoN and the Sorcerer gets the Death Guard legion trait). I put the DP with the elites cuz they don't really benefit from the DG advancing/holding obj. bonus. That way I get a jump pack and the spells that the codex doesn't have.

I run the CC squad in Rhino with the lord, Blightspawn, & Putrifier. I use the plague bomb every chance I get and the Blightspawn is just a beast. Mortarion is in combat turn 1 (well every game so far) and DP's are there to clean up. Poxwalkers and other marines go for objs. while the Blightbringer helps almost everyone move turn 1 and mostly 2 (plus he's not to shabby in CC). Everyone is also usually in range for all sorts of rerolling auras, I try to keep everything close.

 

it is a unique list. I've run Morty in various lists and he's usually dead by turn 2 due to the amount of shooting he takes. Have you thought about taking a Demon prince from chaos demons in there somewhere to get fleshy abundance?

[SkimaskMohawk]

You can't put the death guard keyword on a jump sorc

[Aothaine]

 

 

it is a unique list. I've run Morty in various lists and he's usually dead by turn 2 due to the amount of shooting he takes. Have you thought about taking a Demon prince from chaos demons in there somewhere to get fleshy abundance?

 

 

Sometimes that is the benefit of Morty though. You know that the rest of your army is safe.

[bozo69pd]

 

 

 

it is a unique list. I've run Morty in various lists and he's usually dead by turn 2 due to the amount of shooting he takes. Have you thought about taking a Demon prince from chaos demons in there somewhere to get fleshy abundance?

 

 

Sometimes that is the benefit of Morty though. You know that the rest of your army is safe.

 

The points cost for a turn 2 death is too expensive, turn 3 (assuming he has killed a couple of units at that point) is worth it.

[DominikB]

You can't take the jump sorc

I had to check this, but it’s not a new entry but just a wargear that’s Index only. Do you simply use the rules from the codex but the points from the index as per that flow chart.