Plagueburst Crawlers, aka the Best Tank in the Game

[Trollbeard]

So, I took down my local 21 person event this weekend.

 

My list:

 

Daemons Battalion

Slimux

Poxbringer

 

29 Plague Bearers w/ Icon and Instrument

3x 3 Nurglings

 

6 Beasts of Nurgle

 

Chaos Spearhead

Epidemius

 

3x Plagueburst Crawler w/ Plaguespiiters and Heavy Slugger

 

Death Guard Spearhead

Daemon Prince with Wings; Warlord (Arch-Contaminator) and Fugaris' Helm

 

3x Plagueburst Crawler

 

(51 points in reserve for a Feculent Gnarlmaw)

 

Game One

 

First game was against Cadian IG; he had a Brigade w/ 2 Company Commanders, Pask (in a Punisher), Platoon Commander, Vet Squad, Command Squad, 3 Infantry Squads with a Lascannon, 2 Infantry Squads with an Autocannon, One with only lasguns, 2 Bane Wolves, a Devil Dog, a Basilisk, a Manticore, 2 Leman Russes, a Heavy Weapons Mortar team and a Vendetta. It was pretty un-optimized but it has a lot of the tools that it needs to win. We played ITC Champion's mission one - I took Recon, Big Game Hunter and Death by a Thousand Cuts; while he took Recon, Big Game Hunter and Headhunter.

 

We only got through 4 turns, as he was pretty new to 8th edition and had to look up his stats fairly often (he was trying to play fast so no bad feelings there). I took second turn (which I did the entire event, on purpose). On his first turn, he manages to kill one crawler between all his shooting (spoiler, this is the only one he kills this game), but he only moves up the Valkyrie and the hellhounds. This gives me total control of the center of the board. From there I was able to move up, assault/flamer kill the hellhounds that presented themselves, and knock the vendetta down a bunch of wounds. From the second turn onward my saves started to kick in and I was able to just walk up the board, scoring objectives and eventually getting the bonus points a few times. Score was 27-10.

 

Game Two

 

My second game was against a thousand sons goat list - he had a battalion and vanguard - His list was Ahriman, 2 Daemon Princes, 3 Tzaangor Shamans, 27 Tzaangor, 8 and 9 Rubric Marines, 2x 6 Enlightened with Bows and 9 with Spears and a Fire Raptor with Quad Bolters

 

A really solid tactical game - movement was really important. I used my nurglings to make sure that he couldn't deploy the tzaangors anywhere super close to me, except where he would have to fight the plaguebearers. This worked out in my favor, because when he finally did deepstrike them, he could only use them to tie up one PBC and the plaguebearers, which slaughtered them over three rounds of combat. Freshly invigorated, the Plaguebearers went on to kill an entire unit of Rubric Marines as well. He killed off all but one Beast of Nurgle (easily scoring the 4 points for Gangbuster), but it wasn't really enough - quickly mopped up unprotected characters once all the Enlightened were gone in turn two. I tabled him at the end of turn 4.

 

32-10

 

Game Three

 

This game was against an unconventional Tyranid list - fairly shooty. He had two battalions, all Kronos. His list contained 2 Neurothropes, a Tyranid Prime, a Malanthrope (warlord), 30 Gants with Devourers, 20 Gants with 10 Devourers, 4x 3 Rippers, a Lictor, 6 Zoanthropes, 3 Hive Guard, an Exocrine and 2 Tyrannofexes with Rupture Cannons. This game was decided on turn two when he gave me control of midfield by not moving up to midfield; again giving me control over the objectives. I was easily able to score 5 points a round for the last 3 turns, giving me a huge points lead on the other person to go 3-0.

Well done sir! Sounds like a good time! Curious as to how slimex and he beasts of nurgle did for you? Or what was your idea with them?? I have slimex (cause I love the model) and I tried beasts out in a couple games, but I find they are very hit or miss. Am curious to hear your thoughts!

[Vilicate]

The army isn't really slow; PBC's are 9" moves, and I often will advance with them; plus once I get three kills I'm getting +1" on everything from Epidemius.

 

Slimux is great.  Not only is he a beast in combat, but buffs and Beasts (giving them +1 to hit, but I'm almost never within 6" for the re-roll charges), AND, most importantly, drops a Feculent Gnarlmaw.  The tree gives me the ability to fall back from combat with the crawlers and still shoot, or advance and still fire their other heavy weapons.  In addition, it also gives my plaguebearers the ability to advance and charge, or fall back and charge.  Huge.

[Trollbeard]

The army isn't really slow; PBC's are 9" moves, and I often will advance with them; plus once I get three kills I'm getting +1" on everything from Epidemius.

 

Slimux is great. Not only is he a beast in combat, but buffs and Beasts (giving them +1 to hit, but I'm almost never within 6" for the re-roll charges), AND, most importantly, drops a Feculent Gnarlmaw. The tree gives me the ability to fall back from combat with the crawlers and still shoot, or advance and still fire their other heavy weapons. In addition, it also gives my plaguebearers the ability to advance and charge, or fall back and charge. Huge.

Oh yeah the gnarlmaw is fantastic, can be good for area denial as well due to the mortal wound it can put out. I found the same thing with slimex it’s hard to use his beast rules. But otherwise a very decent character.

 

I’ve been thinking of a list similar to this, it’s like a nurgle daemonkin army haha.

[Vilicate]

 

The army isn't really slow; PBC's are 9" moves, and I often will advance with them; plus once I get three kills I'm getting +1" on everything from Epidemius.

 

Slimux is great. Not only is he a beast in combat, but buffs and Beasts (giving them +1 to hit, but I'm almost never within 6" for the re-roll charges), AND, most importantly, drops a Feculent Gnarlmaw. The tree gives me the ability to fall back from combat with the crawlers and still shoot, or advance and still fire their other heavy weapons. In addition, it also gives my plaguebearers the ability to advance and charge, or fall back and charge. Huge.

Oh yeah the gnarlmaw is fantastic, can be good for area denial as well due to the mortal wound it can put out. I found the same thing with slimex it’s hard to use his beast rules. But otherwise a very decent character.

 

I’ve been thinking of a list similar to this, it’s like a nurgle daemonkin army haha.

 

 

Yes!  That's really close to how I see it too.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

plus once I get three kills I'm getting +1" on everything from Epidemius.

 

.

That is three UNIT kills right not just three killed models?

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I would have thought it challenging to kill three whole units (or I suppose characters) quick enough that the movement bonus would be worth anything?

[Panzer]

Killing three units really isn't that hard for competetive armies to be honest. There are always chaff units that are meant to die and scouting elements that are rather squishy.

[Vilicate]

I kill three units pretty quickly.  Usually by turn 3 or 4 I'm fully charged (all 7 kills) - remember that everything in my army is a Nurgle Daemon and it doesn't mean in close combat either.

[Prot]

It’s a good read and I’m truly happy you did well but this is a Daemon army with a few tanks in it. I was kind of hopeful to see Deathguard in it. I mean I don’t blame you, just wish pure DG was better for games like this.

 

Out of curiosity did you think at any point that any additional Deathguard units would have helped you? Or not really.

 

Troops wise do you think the Plaguebearers are quite a bit better than Poxwalkers or is it just the synergy they have with the Daemon special rules?

[Vilicate]

It’s a good read and I’m truly happy you did well but this is a Daemon army with a few tanks in it. I was kind of hopeful to see Deathguard in it. I mean I don’t blame you, just wish pure DG was better for games like this.

 

Out of curiosity did you think at any point that any additional Deathguard units would have helped you? Or not really.

 

Troops wise do you think the Plaguebearers are quite a bit better than Poxwalkers or is it just the synergy they have with the Daemon special rules?

 

I mean, the majority of the points for this army come from the Death Guard book (like 1020?).  My point here is specifically to talk about how amazing this tank is - and it really, really is.

 

Honestly, I'll be trying a lot of things over the course of the year, but I'm always going to be playing Daemons as my main detachment this year (I'd like to try for #1 in faction for them in ITC), or at least 2nd or 3rd.  We have a couple of local GT's this year and usually a couple of tournaments a month, and I'm hoping to make it to LVO this year again.  I'm going to try some more stuff with Myphitic Blight Haulers and the Great Unclean One with a Doomsday Bell - because bringing back 142 points every turn on a 4+ is pretty neat.  There's also some stuff I want to try out with Possessed.  We have some "for funzies" events locally too, and in those I can definitely see going pure Death Guard - so fair playing them I'm loving the Blightlords.  But I really think the they (DG) lose out in a super competitive environment.  They don't have the great screening or infiltrating units that other armies have, and that simply adding some Nurgle Daemons makes the army -so- much better.  Nurglings are the best unit in the game for ITC events, IMO.

 

There are good things and bad things about both Poxwalkers and Plaguebearers.  It is nice the Plaguebearers are a little faster out of the gate than the Poxwalkers, and they don't have to have all the buffs that Poxwalkers need (like Typhus and/or Necrosius) to be really good.  That being said, Poxwalkers are pretty much the ultimate recursion unit - being able to just get more models by killing models in combat (or from the amazing stratagem) is really awesome.  Plus they can be buffed arguably more from the psychic powers that DG bring to the table.  That all being said, not having to invest any resources into Plaguebearers when you get 5 kills, and having them be S5/T5 with -1 to hit and re-rolling 1's is pretty amazing.  I also roll a lot of 1's for morale for the Plaguebearers, so seem to be pretty lucky in that respect.

[DominikB]

@Vilicate what makes them so good in your eyes, let’s say compared to drones?

 

Also Bell GUO sounds underwhelming to me except as support, limited damage with d3 -1 :/

[Panzer]

It's mostly the durability that makes them great paired with decent damage output with potentially sick damage spikes. But mostly their durability, really. ^^

[radionausea]

@Vilicate what makes them so good in your eyes, let’s say compared to drones?

Also Bell GUO sounds underwhelming to me except as support, limited damage with d3 -1 :/

Bell in the fight phase, flail in the shooting phase (can target models within 1") is decent enough damage, but yeah it's definitely a support character in that set up, but a support character that's throwing out a respectable amount of damage

[Vilicate]

@Vilicate what makes them so good in your eyes, let’s say compared to drones?

 

Also Bell GUO sounds underwhelming to me except as support, limited damage with d3 -1 :/

 

IMO, they are just so much better than drones.  Fewer points, far, far more durable and much better shooting attacks.  It also gives something that Death Guard (and honestly, Chaos in general) doesn't have, which is a no-LoS needed ranged weapon.  This is so important, especially when first level of ruins blocks LoS for most games (or at least it does in all the ones that I play).

 

The Bell GUO is pretty neat; I usually use him as a blocker in close combat anyway.  Dmg d3 is pretty nice though; I mean, it's not the Bilesword but the Bileblade (which is what I use) is still pretty decent at AP-3.  Also, I have often found myself giving him Corruption, as the rest of the Nurgle Relics are just really, really bad.

[DominikB]

 

 

@Vilicate what makes them so good in your eyes, let’s say compared to drones?

 

Also Bell GUO sounds underwhelming to me except as support, limited damage with d3 -1 :/

IMO, they are just so much better than drones. Fewer points, far, far more durable and much better shooting attacks. It also gives something that Death Guard (and honestly, Chaos in general) doesn't have, which is a no-LoS needed ranged weapon. This is so important, especially when first level of ruins blocks LoS for most games (or at least it does in all the ones that I play).

 

The Bell GUO is pretty neat; I usually use him as a blocker in close combat anyway. Dmg d3 is pretty nice though; I mean, it's not the Bilesword but the Bileblade (which is what I use) is still pretty decent at AP-3. Also, I have often found myself giving him Corruption, as the rest of the Nurgle Relics are just really, really bad.

Do you not think fly is worth it on the drones?

I’m curious do you think a list with just 3PBC and a GUO could work? Thinking of PB drones or BoN and the usual nurgle troops as needed

[Vilicate]

Hey!

 

So yeah, I'd like to try and use an army that maximizes the Bell from the GUO - so lots of units of Beasts and Plague Drones, along with either a Chaos Outrider with drones and Myphitics or a DG patrol (so at least I get the stratagems).  I think that kind of army could work really well.

[Sheesh Mode]

 

There was a list at the LVO this year with ten of them, it didn't do that well compared to what the guy thought it would and is hard countered by certain tactics. Your list looks to at least be better balanced than that so just watch out for units wrapping you in combat so you can't fall back as well as fiends of slaanesh since they won't let you fall back either.

Hey dude;

 

So I've been chatting with Don Hooson (the guy with 10 PBCs) - he went 5-1, and lost the first round due to himself playing poorly and his opponent playing well (by his own admission).  Getting 13th out of like 500 is pretty darn good imo.

 

Yeah, the reason I have the plaguebearers and beasts is to help screen my front and/or flanks to make sure I don't get wrapped.

 

Don Hooson is fun to chat with.

[Prot]

Yea the Hooson list is.... really just the Crawlers and filler. I guess that's a good thing if that's what you consider playing Deathguard. 

 

It's worth mentioning that top ITC event winners have done so with multi Bloat drones. Saying that I do understand the fascination with Hooson's list... I mean regardless of why he lost his first game, it's obviously very successful. It's funny though meta changes so fast in this game you just never know what the next codex breaks or brings to the table.  It wasn't that long ago they felt a strong reason to nerf Assault Cannons, and Stormravens. 

 

I think GW wrote Daemons to always be the competitive player's choice to support, or strongly enhance the chaos (Legion) forces. Aside from Khorne I've never been a big daemon guy so I always fight the popularity wave on this one. But reluctantly I have to agree... if you're going purely to win, just take Daemons and that tank. 

 

But be forewarned if you are investing heavily in this theme GW uses tournaments to do their real beta-playtesting, and regardless of if they need or not. this kind of exposure does not bode well for dodging the nerfstick in a future Chapter Approved. It's just the way they work.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Prot

[DuskRaider]

Hooson wrote on the Death Guard FB group before the tournament that he created the list to show GW how broken the unit can be or something? I don't know, sounded like a load of BS.

[BlackTriton]

If PBC are OP, its not the unit but the daemon synergy that push it over line.

Expect daemon buff to no longer apply to unit with vehicle. Problem solved, if there is one.

[BlackTriton]

While there is precedent, this is not at all the same thing.

With the conscript and comissar nerf, we had massive backlash demanding a nerf on all major platform for weeks, and while GW may not have seen them as overpowered, they are trying to give us the rules we want so they can keep selling us minis.

This is consistant in their behavior.

Since we dont see a big movement against the PBC, we can expect a well mesured change.

 

Also, the plague launcher is aggressivly pointed right now, but since it is only avaiyable to very few and very high-cost elite units it is a good balanced deal.

You can offset the cost of plague marine by taking their new signature weapons: plague launcher and flails. It also make sens for business, since these option only apear in the new kit. It was an overall very good move of the last chapter approved to reduce the cost of the PL, makes PM a better competitive proposition and no one would argue they are OP.

[Vilicate]

I'd be really surprised if they upped the points on the PBC, considering this last Chapter Approved reduced it's points by 10.  Even then, if it went up by 10 points, I don't feel like that would change that much tbh.  It's really not that hard to find an extra 50-60 (or in the 10 PHC army, 100) points to make it still work.

 

And limiting the interaction between CSM and Daemons is also probably not a good idea; it takes away pretty much any interesting synergy between Daemons and CSM.  It would be a sad day for those armies if it ultimately went away.

[DuskRaider]

Like I said, I think his reasoning was BS. I don't think that's why he ran the list he did at all, he was getting a lot of flak from the other DG players and he came up with some whacky reason to run what he did. At the end of the day, it's his $$$ (there's a lot there), so if that's the list he wishes to run for tournaments then best of luck. Abandon all fluff, ye who enter.

[bozo69pd]

This thread has me confused now with the direction it is going. All I am going to say now is that this unit certainly can have good synergy. If GW decides to take away the allied aura interactions for chaos, then they are probably going to have to take away allied aura interactions for Imperium as well? Or Craftworlds + Ynarri? Lets not be hypocitical now, it is not like chaos is winning any tourneys compared to Eldar and Blood Angels.

[Prot]

 

If PBC are OP, its not the unit but the daemon synergy that push it over line.

Expect daemon buff to no longer apply to unit with vehicle. Problem solved, if there is one.

I agree completely. I’m just worried they’re going to ‘fix’ PBCs like commissars and conscripts got ‘fixed’. That is to say, nerfing the unit in question to the detriment of its faction, as opposed to nerfing the way in which it is abused by other armies. There is precedent for GWdoing that.

 

 

This is kind of what I'm saying though.... Look at the first major we saw Guilliman at. Razorbacks aren't really that OP. But Guililman surrounded by 6 of them certainly felt that way with about 2-3 codexes released! Personally I would not have touched the points of Stormravens, Razorbacks or Guilliman -at that time-.

 

I also would not touch PBC, but this is GW. They knee jerked pretty hard at the first sight of Guilliman in a competitive environment. (I mean this literally almost rendered GK to be virtually non-competitive almost over night... GK really needed some of that stuff to stay the way it was. (GK inherently doesn't mix Guilliman with those units (diminishing their effectiveness), BUT they relied on them to play somewhat competitively).

 

The 'problem'... if there is one, is a very common one. PBC's and Deathguard are 'good'. Taking PBC's and Nurgle is 'great'.

 

So while 'fixing' PBC's for the Nurgle player, they may break them for Deathguard. I hope they don't touch any of it to be honest. It's just my personal playstyle to play largely deathguard and suffer the penalty for refusing to milk cross-codex playstyles. But I accept GW have written the game this way intentionally.

 

At the end of the day if too many people show success with this very list which is being mimicked more and more every week, it's probably gonna get a haircut GW style. Just my opinion. But until that happens... go have some fun with it.