Aothaine Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Hey everyone! So this is pretty gamey.. but I am looking for competitive lists. Here is what I'm thinking. I also posted a similar post in the Imperial Agents forum swapping out three librarians with Greyfax, Coteaz and Eisenhorn for all the extra goodies they bring. Without further ado... Supreme Command Detachment - 700 HQ - Librarian - 100 - Force Axe - Storm Bolter Librarian - 100 - Force Axe - Storm Bolter Librarian - 100 - Force Axe - Storm Bolter Librarian - 100 - Force Axe - Storm Bolter Librarian - 100 - Force Axe - Storm Bolter Elite - Company Veterans x5 - 115 - Storm Shield x5 - Storm Bolter x5 Drop pod - 85 Thinking about taking two of these detachments then a Battalion: Battalion - 596 HQ - 200 Librarian - 100 - Force Axe - Storm Bolter Librarian - 100 - Force Axe - Storm Bolter TROOP - 486 Intercessor Squad (6-man) - 108 Intercessor Squad (6-man) - 108 Intercessor Squad (5-man) - 90 Intercessor Squad (5-man) - 90 This would put the entire list at 1996 points. It may seem pretty small but the list is actually pretty robust, has a ton of anti-infantry firepower and 24 smites. Is this too absurd for competitive play? I have not decided on a space marine chapter yet but Blood Angels have a very nice set of Psychic powers to choose from when in a pinch. I could also swap out the two librarians in the Battalion with Primaris Librarians for -4 points. It would give the walking Librarians 1 extra wound, but stick them with a Bolt Pistol and Force Sword so I'm not sure it is worth it. What do you guys think? Edited February 23, 2018 by Aothaine Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 For what it’s worth, they mentioned something about a possible nerf to Smite in the now twice-a-year FAQ pack coming out sometime in March. The rules change they teased was something along the lines of each attempt at casting Smite after the first successful one has -1 to dive rolls or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5017355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 For competitive (Matched) play that's actually 12 Smites, due to the Rule of One. Additionally, there are Beta rules for toning down Smite spam (-1 to cast Smite for every previous attempt) which will curtail it in this case quite significantly (at around 3 attempts your future chances are unlikely to go off). Also, that many Librarians is pretty overkill. The Sanguinary Discipline is pretty good (4.5 good powers) but they're not massive effects (Unleash Rage on a big unit of DC is probably the most potent). Then, you need to consider that Librarians themselves aren't particularly amazing in and of themselves - they're quite expensive, only have WS/BS 3+, and have no native Invulnerable saves. Librarian Dreadnoughts are certainly potent (WS 2+, much tougher, very powerful attacks and still characters targeting purposes) so a core of them would be solid, but I think generally speaking C:SM/BA/DA Librarians kind of cap themselves at about 3-5 per army. There's just a lot of waste coming from having them sitting around not casting anything after the first few cast the good powers. DeadMilkman 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5017356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Eh. 1) you will never get to dominate the psychic phase against the actual psyker armies even tho you heavily gimped the rest of your army while they didn't. 2) GW already announced to stop the smite spam. 3) It'd be only 12 smite in matched play. Imo a thought not worth following any further. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5017411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 Ahhh a bunch of rules I had not thought about. I thought smite was not included in the rule of one. Plus that new smite rule would squash this idea. shame. Thank you everyone for the feedback! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5017417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Smite is not included in the rule of one. But it does suffer from escalating cost to cast as per chapter approved I believe or possibly ITC rules. So the first one to cast is 5+ the next in the phase 6+ and so on. After 3 it's pretty iffy. If you want to smite spam do grey knights, guard, orks, or demons. This would be an easy list for most competative armies to pick apart. Even if there were no diminishing returns on smite you have a very short effective range, no targeting ability, no speed (a drop pod or two does not a dynamic move phase make). A basic guard gunline would shoot you down in 2 turns. And loose a few guardsmen in the process. Spam can work but not this spam. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5020507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Smite is excluded from the matched-play "Rule of One", but the base rules for psykers is that they cannot attempt to manifest the same power twice in a turn. Kallas and Panzer 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5021090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 But it does suffer from escalating cost to cast as per chapter approved I believe or possibly ITC rules. So the first one to cast is 5+ the next in the phase 6+ and so on. After 3 it's pretty iffy. That's just a beta rule. It's not published anywhere except in that one WarCom article about beta rules and nobody is seriously using it anywhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5021177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornithologist Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 But it does suffer from escalating cost to cast as per chapter approved I believe or possibly ITC rules. So the first one to cast is 5+ the next in the phase 6+ and so on. After 3 it's pretty iffy. That's just a beta rule. It's not published anywhere except in that one WarCom article about beta rules and nobody is seriously using it anywhere. Fun fact: everyone is using it in my local meta, also in all the local Tournys. We had one night 75% of our tables playing games with one side being Thousand Sons led by Magnus, and they were all playing under the beta Rules. tychobi 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5021244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 But it does suffer from escalating cost to cast as per chapter approved I believe or possibly ITC rules. So the first one to cast is 5+ the next in the phase 6+ and so on. After 3 it's pretty iffy. That's just a beta rule. It's not published anywhere except in that one WarCom article about beta rules and nobody is seriously using it anywhere. Fun fact: everyone is using it in my local meta, also in all the local Tournys. We had one night 75% of our tables playing games with one side being Thousand Sons led by Magnus, and they were all playing under the beta Rules. Same here. Was in effect in my last ITC tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5021397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Well that's something. First time i hear about people using the beta rule seriously like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5021437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Yep. Were using it even in casual games here. Though nobody owns GK or TSons, so nobody *has* to suffer the penalties of it. If we did have a player, we would probably houserule that their mini smites don't count. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5021478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The beta rules are also already a part of the german tournament scene especialy in the TTM type of games. http://www.tabletopmasters.de/2016/04/02/rules/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5021963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Same here, both local meta and tournaments use the «smite nerf» Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344691-smitestar-how-many-is-too-many/#findComment-5022074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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