Explorer 1's Journey to the Games Workshop GT Final

[Explorer1]

I think you are passing on company veterans with melta and jump packs way to quickly without giving them the credit, they could be around for the next two years or more and skipping them leaves you short of the option, if your worried about the models not being usable in a few years then paint them either with yellow helmets or bare heads and they can double as assault marine, or magnetise the backpacks.

 

I'm not up on my math hammer but company veterans with jump packs might give plasma inceptors a run for there money.

 

You might be right. Problem is some of the tournaments I go to dont allow index options if there is a codex.

[Panzer]

 

I'm not up on my math hammer but company veterans with jump packs might give plasma inceptors a run for there money. 

 

 

Not really, no.

For the same amount of wounds and shots with Plasma guns(but with 6" less range...which is important since the difference between 12" and 18" is huge for melee infantry) you pay 17 more points. Sure, they have 5 more attacks in melee, but you usually don't want such a unit in melee. In return they have only T4 instead of T5. Also a way bigger footprint so they're harder to deep strike.

[Explorer1]

So after all the thought and analysis, here’s the list I’m taking to the next GT (next weekend).

 

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) 1011pts

 

HQ

 

Captain [129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

Lemartes [129pts]

 

Troops

 

Scout Squad [55pts]

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

 

Scout Squad [55pts]

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

 

Scout Squad [55pts]

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout: Boltgun

. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun,Chainsword

 

Elites

 

Death Company [300pts]: Jump Packs

. 15 Death Company Marines with Boltgun and Chainswords

 

Death Company [288pts]: Jump Packs

. 2x Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power sword

. 3x Death Company Marine: Bolgun and Chainswords

. 5x Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer

 

 

 

Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [839pts]

 

HQ

 

Commander Dante [215pts]

 

Fast Attack

 

Inceptor Squad [177pts]: 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, all with 2 Plasma Exterminators

 

Inceptor Squad [177pts]: 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, all with 2 Plasma Exterminators

 

Inceptor Squad [270pts]: 5x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant all with two Assault Bolters

 

 

 

Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [149pts]

 

Regimental Doctrine: Cadian

 

HQ

 

Company Commander [30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Warlord, Grand Strategist, Khurov’s Aquila.

 

Elites

 

Platoon Commander [20pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

 

Heavy Support

 

Heavy Weapons Squad [33pts]

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

 

Heavy Weapons Squad [33pts]

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

 

Heavy Weapons Squad [33pts]

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

 

Thoughts?

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

Seems like it should do work. Good luck!

[Xhris the Unpronounceable]

So have we now hit the point where a competitive space marine army doesn't actually contain any 'standard' space marines as troops? Seems a shame.

[Explorer1]

So have we now hit the point where a competitive space marine army doesn't actually contain any 'standard' space marines as troops? Seems a shame.

Do you mean Tactical Marines? I’m not building a fluffy list, I’m building a competitive one. IMO scouts are just better than tac Marines.

[Kallas]

So have we now hit the point where a competitive space marine army doesn't actually contain any 'standard' space marines as troops? Seems a shame.

 

Yeah pretty much. GW has just made standard Space Marines too bland and crap to be worthwhile. Even the elite statlines aren't particularly awe-inspiring, and enemies can bring absolute masses of MEQ killing weaponry, so...

 

So yeah. Considering Scouts do the fighting just as well as a Tactical Marines, as well as being cheaper and having a forward deployment rule, they're simply far superior to Tacticals.

[Xhris the Unpronounceable]

 

So have we now hit the point where a competitive space marine army doesn't actually contain any 'standard' space marines as troops? Seems a shame.

Do you mean Tactical Marines? I’m not building a fluffy list, I’m building a competitive one. IMO scouts are just better than tac Marines.

 

 

Yep - that was the point I was getting at. I think you are right - scouts are the better competitive choice. Which probably means I will be adding to my painting queue at some point soon.

 

So have we now hit the point where a competitive space marine army doesn't actually contain any 'standard' space marines as troops? Seems a shame.

 

Yeah pretty much. GW has just made standard Space Marines too bland and crap to be worthwhile. Even the elite statlines aren't particularly awe-inspiring, and enemies can bring absolute masses of MEQ killing weaponry, so...

 

So yeah. Considering Scouts do the fighting just as well as a Tactical Marines, as well as being cheaper and having a forward deployment rule, they're simply far superior to Tacticals.

 

Perhaps my 'power-armoured horde' idea isn't the best then lol! Mind you, massed marines still look good...

 

Anyway, hope you crush it at the GT final Explorer1!!! 

[Kallas]

Perhaps my 'power-armoured horde' idea isn't the best then lol! Mind you, massed marines still look good...

 

Not saying it's impossible for them to work! Just that the Space Marine statline is horribly out of date - the Primaris statline/cost is pretty much how regular Marines should probably look, as is they just don't really represent the super-human nature their background says they have. On the tabletop...well, there's been tons of analysis (see 3++ if you want an effectiveness-per-point comparison, which shows just how terrible they really are) and tournaments aren't exactly being blown up by Tactical Marines.

 

That said, I do love the idea of a Marine horde. I just feel that Intercessors would do it better (performance wise; though I still love the look of Tacticals, which is why I have about thirty).

[RelentlessPursuit]

Are smurfs not spamming lascannon tac squads with guilliman anymore?

[Kallas]

Are smurfs not spamming lascannon tac squads with guilliman anymore?

 

The Lascannon Tacs were never the strong point of those lists anyway, it was the Assault Cannon Razorbacks and/or Stormravens. And Guilliman isn't breaking the tournament scene anyway.

[Spiegel]

It may be too late for playtesting and I cannot say anything about the quality of my list as I have no time to play. I just have the models and I like them. But I want to share my concept anyway:

I have a melee anti horde and a melee anti tank unit in reserve and I have a shooty anti horde and a shooty anti tank unit in reserve + the buffing chars. The rest of the army fills the board and is a bit frustrating and boring to shoot at. Maybe Intercessors would be more so …

 

2000 Points Battalion

 

DC Captain/ JP, SS, Hammer of Baal

Captain/ JP, PF, CombiMelter: with Inceptors and additional threat with Descent of Angels

Lib/ FS, Angel’s Wings : psychic defense, unleash rage, eating overwatch

3 Scout Squads: screening and threatening screens

2 Tacs/ ML: holding objectives, occupying space in deployment zone, a bit anti tank, Flakk

1 Tac/ HB, SB, Drop Pod: stealing objectives, Hell Fire, anti screen

Company Vets/ SB+CS: in DP with Tac, anti screen

DC/JP, Bo+CS: anti horde

Van Vets/JP,SS, TH: anti tank, main threat

Inceptors/Plas: anti tank, anti elite

2 Attack Bikes: anti tank or anti horde

3 Dev/1LC, Cherub: occupying space in deployment zone, a bit anti tank

[Explorer1]

For anybody interested, here’s the list doc, and the lists I’ll be facing at the weekend.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t3Oz0v0qrq8mLNVr78gk9f0UqeI2YaIK/view

 

A few horrors, but not too bad. A couple of nasty Hive Tyrant lists, a couple of Eldar Reaper lists, and a list with all the Lehman Russ tanks!

 

Thoughts?

[Blackcadian]

For anybody interested, here’s the list doc, and the lists I’ll be facing at the weekend.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t3Oz0v0qrq8mLNVr78gk9f0UqeI2YaIK/view

 

A few horrors, but not too bad. A couple of nasty Hive Tyrant lists, a couple of Eldar Reaper lists, and a list with all the Lehman Russ tanks!

 

Thoughts?

Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

What are you going to do about the Dark Reapers?

 

And why do you bring Dante?

[Explorer1]

 

For anybody interested, here’s the list doc, and the lists I’ll be facing at the weekend. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t3Oz0v0qrq8mLNVr78gk9f0UqeI2YaIK/view

A few horrors, but not too bad. A couple of nasty Hive Tyrant lists, a couple of Eldar Reaper lists, and a list with all the Lehman Russ tanks!

Thoughts?

Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

What are you going to do about the Dark Reapers?

And why do you bring Dante?

Against reapers it depends how well the screen. If I think I can get through the screens easily I’ll rush them. However, it’s a tough match up.

 

Dante because ..... well it’s Dante!. Other than that, i’ve found the full re-rolls rather than just re-rolling ones helpful, particularly when a unit is -1 to hit, and I’m overcharging the plasma Inceptors (doesn’t happen very often, but when it does losing a model on a 1 or 2 really hurts if you’re not re-rolling everything). Stastically you get the same results (more or less) with a captain and a lieutenant, re-rolling ones to hit and to wound, but Dante’s way cooler.

 

To be honest - Dante’s one of the units I have a question mark over this tournament.

[Explorer1]

Just back from a fantastic weekend at STO3 - 40k Tournament Road trips are the best kind of road trips!! If anybody’s interested we recorded some of the trip for the Caledonian Deathwatch Radio Podcast. 

 

But anyway, how did it go?

 

Well, it could have gone better....I went 2-3, which I was a little disappointed with. Two of my losses were really close, but losses never the less. I suspect if I had been more familiar with the ITC scoring system, and a bit more focused on getting points, I could have done a better!

 

However, winning games wasn’t really the point - figuring out how the army works, and refining the list, was what the weekend was all about. So, first some brief bat reps, and some thoughts on the list and it’s future direction 

 

Game 1

 

Against Liam (a good friend), and his eldar “mash up”. Essentially some Venoms, 3 Razorwing Jet Fighters, 6 Shinning Spears, a Farseer and some other bits and bobs. Having thought about this game a lot over the week, my conclusion was it would turn on how effectively Liam screened his army, and who went first. Long story short, he screened his army very effectively ..... and he seized! 

 

It was a very good example of how screens don’t need to be lines of guardsmen or cultists. Liam used his venoms and a couple of Vypers (Vypers!!!) to push back any deep strikers, forcing me to kill them first, before I could get to the “heart” of his army. While I was engaged in doing that, he was busy killing my stuff with the Razorwings, harassing me with Spears, and scoring points. At the end of the game he had the 3 Razorwings and a Warlock on a bike left. I had quite a bit to stuff left, but it was all out of position and I had run out of command points to allow me to reposition effectively. He won by 2 points - 25-23.

 

A great game (as they always are against Liam - he was 2nd in the best game votes, and would have been first if I had voted for him, as I would have done if he wasn’t a friend) - close and tightly fought. Highlights were killing a Fire Prisim, his Farseer and 3 units of bikes with one DC multi charge, and making 2 really long charges with Dante and JumpSmash to obliterate his spears. Low point - killing 4 of 6 overcharging Plasma Inceptors firing at the spears, and not killing even one!!

 

Game 2

 

Against a space marine gun line - 3 predators, 3 AssCannon Razorbacks, 2 Stormtallons some scouts and some tac marines - oh and 2 characters that give re-rolls to hit, and re-roll 1s to wound. 

 

Tactics here were pretty straight forward - clear the screens with Mortars and Inceptors, and then kill the Tanks with Thunder Hammers. Which is pretty much how it worked out. There were a couple of anxious moments when my THammers wiffed when I multi assaulted the 3 Razorbacks, and when I realised how horrible Predators are, but a win in the end.

 

Highlights - a stroke of genius from my opponent. I had assaulted 3 Razorbacks, killing 1 and bringing the other 2 down to 1 wound. I had however managed to “trap” one of them meaning it couldn’t fall back from combat, but more importantly, my opponent couldn’t shoot the DC squad with all the Thunder Hammers. However, my opponent spent 3 CPs on an orbital bombardment, placed it just next to the trapped Razorback, and blew it up, meaning that he could then fire all the Predators at the THammer DC squad ... which didn’t end well!

 

Game 3

 

But of course, if you win big you get thrown into the shark pool. Next game was against the one army I really (really) didin’t want to face - Ad Mech, with three 20 man units of Electro Priests, 6 Dragoon’s and a bunch of other less scary stuff. 

 

I had thought, if I went first, I might have been able to kill 2 units of priests (one with the DC and the other with Assault Bolter Inceptors +mortars) and maybe the Dragoons with the Plasma Inceptors. The key would be hitting the priests before they killed a unit and got their 3++. However I went 2nd, and the game was effectively over. The priests are so deadly in close combat, and so resilient with a 3++, 5+++ that they were impossible to kill. I hit one unit with a full charge from the 15 man DC unit, backed up with Lemartes, and even used 3CPs to have them fight again - but still didn’t kill it! 

 

In the end I think I came 3rd!

 

Game 4

 

There was an “anomaly” in the pairing due to somebody pulling out (and my opponent getting max points as a result) which had me paired against a pretty “soft” Raven Guard army. The TO decided (quite reasonably) that that wouldn’t be much fun for either of us, so I was paired with the ringer ..... who had an Eldar Reaper spam army...! Farseer, Warlock Conclave, Cat Lady, a couple of Autarchs, 4 Venoms with Kabalite Warriors in them, 2 Fire Prisims, a 10 man unit of Dark Reapers, two 3 man units, and (confusingly) 2 of the Forge World, Reapers which is a Heavy Support gunboat. 

 

This was the game of the tournament, really close and exciting down to the wire. In the end I needed to make a 9” charge on 3 dice for the (probable) win .... and I rolled a 7! My opponent won by 2 points.

 

Highlights - “bluffing” my opponent into using Forwarning to “intercept” the Assault Bolter Inceptors, before sneaking JumpSmash into a gap he left behind his Reaper castle ..... JumpSmash makes his charge into combat with Cat Lady, the Farseer and 2 Warlocks. I’m salivating at the thought of killing all 4 with The Emperor’s Hammer of Justice. The plan was to use Red Rampage to give him d3 extra attacks, and then Honour the Chapter to have him swing again. The decision was whether to kill Cat Lady first, or the Farseer and Warlocks first. The issue is Honour the Chapter allows you to fight at the end of the fight phase - so my opponent gets to swing at me before I get to swing again.  I opt for Cat Lady - she has to die - she’s the Warlord, my Kingslayer target, and I want to “kill” Word of the Phenoix. So I swing at Cat Lady, kill her easily, and turn to the Farseer and his minions to weather their attacks - I have a Storm Shield, what can go wrong? Well, failing four 3+ saves, that’s what! JumpSmash dies to witchblades with his job half done! 

 

Game 5

 

Against new Tau. An interesting list that I think could be really strong. Cadre Fire Blade, 3 Commanders, a big block of fire warriors with a Pulse Accelerator Drone, 10 pathfinders, 2 units of Stealth Suits, a Ghostkeel, a 10 “man” unit of Gun Drones, and a unit of 6 Piranhas. 

 

Now I think this list is deceptively strong. The Fire Warriors have a 42” range with their Pulse Rifles (Sept trait and the Pulse Accelerator Drone), and fire 3 shots each at 21”! Couple that with “for the Greater Good” and that could make a pretty scary castle to assault. The stealth suits can deploy into no mans land during deployment (like Nurglings and Scouts), but dont need to be more than 9” from their opponent’s deployment zone. The Ghostkeel with its Stealth Drones is -2 to hit, and bristles with Fusions Guns, and all the Commanders are surrounded in Shield Drones all of which need to die before you bestowing the blessing of the Emperor’s Thunder Hammer of Justice upon the Commander. 

 

But the scariest thing is that my opponent could create a truly tricky screen to get through. First he deploys the stealth suits as close to me as possible. He then deploys the Piranhas 18” back from the Stealth Drones, and then builds his fire warrior castle (at least) 7” back from the Pirhans. That’s a lot of stuff to get through, while being shot to :cuss by Pulse Rifles!

 

Thankfully he didn’t do this, and I was able to pick him off piece by piece, for a pretty big win.

 

Highlights - the Plasma Inceptors coming down with Dante killing all the Piranhas in one round of shooting (in context - they burned through 36 T7 wounds!!), while the Assault Bolter Inceptors came down and killed 2 of the three units of Fire Warriors, bringing the 3rd down to 3 men. Low lights - JumpSmash getting into a fight with a single Fire Warrior and 2 Drones, failing to kill any of them, and having to be bailed out by “The Old Man” (Dante), who had just survived being shot at by 10 Gun Drones (40 S5 shots!!).

 

After the game I sat down with my opponent and drew him a picture of how he could have castled up and screens his army more effectively.

 

So all in all, 5 fun games (well, 4 and PTSD from the Electro Priests), and I learned a lot about the army. More to come on that shortly.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

Good batrep! 

 

I recently practiced against some Viorla Tau that could have gone very bad for me had I not seized on my opponent. He fielded a Commander, 4 Breacher teams, 2 Strike teams, 2 Fireblades, an Ethereal, one Coldstar Commander with burst cannons, 2 riptides, 2 devilfish, and a unit of deep striking shield drones.

 

I ended up clearing 2 units of breachers and a strike team T1 while managing to surround another so he couldn't fall back and shoot me. Afterward we talked it over and agreed that if he screened with the devilfish it would have gone a lot better. As it was if he had gone after my back lines with the Riptides a turn sooner he could still have pulled out the win. Tau are definitely still strong; albeit in a way that no one who picked them up in the last two editions knows how to play.

[Explorer1]

Good batrep! 

 

I recently practiced against some Viorla Tau that could have gone very bad for me had I not seized on my opponent. He fielded a Commander, 4 Breacher teams, 2 Strike teams, 2 Fireblades, an Ethereal, one Coldstar Commander with burst cannons, 2 riptides, 2 devilfish, and a unit of deep striking shield drones.

 

I ended up clearing 2 units of breachers and a strike team T1 while managing to surround another so he couldn't fall back and shoot me. Afterward we talked it over and agreed that if he screened with the devilfish it would have gone a lot better. As it was if he had gone after my back lines with the Riptides a turn sooner he could still have pulled out the win. Tau are definitely still strong; albeit in a way that no one who picked them up in the last two editions knows how to play.

I never thought about that, but you're so right. I played Tau all the way through 5th ed, and new tau seem to play way more like they did in 5th than in 6th or 7th.