Clarify:Raptors Chapter Rules?/Lias Issodon

[KGatch113]

Lias Issodon has keyword Raptors. I don't see anywhere that it says that the Raptors are now tied to the RavenGuard....they don't have their own rules anymore and are free to pick a chapter trait from the Codex? Thanks for any info....

[Schlitzaf]

That be correct through keep in mind successor chapters only get;

Strategem

Chapter Tactics

 

Not Warlord Trait or Relic. Nor access (and by extension any unit prohibitions) to any units that are locked behind (Chapter) unless your a successsor to Dark Angels/BloodAngels. So if you choose BT Tactics, you retain access to Librarians but don’t gain access to Crusader Squads. And our Helm and Warlord Trait are both off limits.

[Claws and Effect]

Nope. Any successor that has a known parent chapter must use the parent chapter's tactics if they don't have their own. In the above example, if Black Templars didn't have their own tactics they'd have to use Imperial Fists (which would be dumb).

 

You only get to choose when the founding chapter is unknown. It's not so bad with Raptors, though, since RG tactics actually work pretty well for them.

 

The only things you can't use are Shrike and Ravens Fury.

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

Yeah but you cannot use named characters like Lias

You either have a generic sm chapter and Lias or Ravenguard and no Lias

Lias is raptors

Sucks but what GW has done

[Race Bannon]

Out of curiosity, is the question for a tournament?

[Claws and Effect]

Yeah but you cannot use named characters like Lias

You either have a generic sm chapter and Lias or Ravenguard and no Lias

Lias is raptors

Sucks but what GW has done

No. You have <RAPTORS> and Lias, or <RAVEN GUARD> and no Lias.

 

Any Space Marine army has to have a <CHAPTER> keyword. And that keyword determines what special characters you are allowed to use. "Counts-as" named characters are no longer a thing.

[W.A.Rorie]

Out of curiosity, is the question for a tournament?

To further what Race is looking for and explain some reasons:

 

- if is just for friendly play talk to your opponent before game. My group have agreed that I can use ravenguard tactics but not relics or the RG warlord traits. A lot of the raptors players agree to this.

 

-Tournaments that don’t allow FW (like Adepticon) then you can’t use lias and play them as RG

[Johanhgg]

Yeah but you cannot use named characters like Lias

You either have a generic sm chapter and Lias or Ravenguard and no Lias

Lias is raptors

Sucks but what GW has done

I agree. But since I play this game for fun I run raptors with Lias and raven guard CT. It’s not like GW can force me to play a certain way. If my opponent doesn’t agree then I’m not playing, no big deal. And since I always play with friends there’s no issue playing the game how we want, but we want it to be fluffy and explainable; using RG tactics and raptors is explainable :)

[CombatVet]

My play group uses common sense also but saying for the moment we all hit our heads one day and wanted to be lame.

 

What Chapter Tactics would I use for my Lias led Raptor force?

[Claws and Effect]

My play group uses common sense also but saying for the moment we all hit our heads one day and wanted to be lame.

 

What Chapter Tactics would I use for my Lias led Raptor force?

Raven Guard.

 

GW has come out and said that if a successor's parent chapter is known they have to use their tactics.

 

Actually works really well for Raptors. Not do great for some others.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

My play group uses common sense also but saying for the moment we all hit our heads one day and wanted to be lame.

 

What Chapter Tactics would I use for my Lias led Raptor force?

 

Read the pages for the codex where they talk about the Chapter Tactics (pages might vary depending on your printing, but it's the page with all the Chapter Tactics in little boxes). For my book, it was page 195. Here's what it says:

 

"If your Chapter does not have an associated Chapter Tactic, use the Chapter Tactic of its founding Chapter. For example, Crimson Fists are a successor Chapter of the Imperial Fists, so should use the Chapter Tactic of the Imperial Fists. If you are unsure of a Chapter’s founding Chapter, either consult the background sections of our books or choose a Tactic from the table that best describes its character and fighting style."

 

In the current edition, you MUST choose Raven Guard for Raptors, because we KNOW "Raptors are a successor Chapter of the Raven Guard, so should use the Chapter Tactic of the Raven Guard", just like how they used Crimson Fists and Imperial Fists in their example. In the previous editions, before Raptors had their own Chapter Tactics or in games where Forge World rules aren't allowed, you could've chosen any Chapter Tactics you wanted, even ones that don't fit at all.

 

Your opponent may be polite and let you choose another Chapter Tactic if you want, but honestly, Raven Guard is not only the closest to Raptors' old rules, they're also very strong and also the official one you're "supposed" to use right now, so all I see is multiple reasons to choose Raven Guard and zero reasons to choose something else.

 

Personally, if you choose something besides Raven Guard, I would not mind at all and would absolutely let you do it. But I would wonder why anyone would even want to do that.

[Dracos]

Shame Lias hates on Primaris Marines so much. ;)