The hidden flaws of Ultramar and Space Marine rulers

[DogWelder]

The idea of Space Marines as rulers alongside their role as warriors has always been an interesting component to the 40k storyline. There have been two instances where this concept has been explored. The first was with Horus and the Traitor Legions using it as a tool to persuade the Astartes to join their cause. The Emperor was handing over control of the Imperium which the Space Marines had won to mortal men and women who were to actually rule it. This actually caused a significant number of Astartes to turn since they did not want to hand over their hard won gains to bureaucrats who did not deserve it in their opinion.

 

'Administrators and bookkeepers dictating the paths of warrior-kings?’ He cleared his throat and spat. ‘That shall not stand. The Legiones Astartes are masters of their own destiny. Horus will carry us to victory!’

 

-Hakeem Khan, traitor White Scar during the Heresy, from Garrro: 'Sword of Truth'

 

So this is clearly a negative portrayal.

 

However, the second example is Ultramar which has been showered by praise in nearly all of the 40k literary works. Efficient, practical, productive and with a high standard of living, it shows the benefits of Space Marine rule over humans. In fact it is so good that the trillions of people in Ultramar stay willingly loyal to their Ultramarine masters not out of fear of retribution but out of a genuine desire to live a better life and comfortable in the knowledge that if they work hard, they will be rewarded by the upward social mobility of the meritocratic system installed by Guilliman. It's not a utopia by any stretch though since it doesn't just hand you a luxurious life. But it gives you the chance at a better life if you are willing to put in the effort to work for one. 

 

Still I feel the flaws of this kind of system should be better expanded in the 40k literature. It shouldn't just be 'everything is amazing in Ultramar! There is nothing wrong at all!".

 

The trillions of people in Ultramar live under the principle that regular humanity is just too stupid to govern itself and must be constantly overseen by a Space Marine administrator/ruler. Every single planet in Ultramar has an Ultramarine Praefactor who is the ultimate authority on the planet. Not to mention a secret police (the Vigil Operatii) created by Guilliman to hunt down any dissenters/rebels that would disturb the 'efficiency' or 'productivity' of a planet. In fact under the newly established 500 Worlds system, Guilliman is giving even more power to the Ultramarine governors and Tetrarchs, outright dismissing several hundred planetary governors and installing his own sons in those positions. As well as turning over the most productive of these planets for permanent military occupation by Ultramarine successors.

 

Now this is still obviously a hundred times better than the rest of the Imperium and I also fully agree with the actions Guilliman and the Ultramarines are taking to ensure the safety of their realm but I realize that they are ruthless and underhanded. I think this adds a realistic edge to this system. It provides a great counterpoint to someone going 'Well why doesn't the whole Imperium become Ultramar?'

 

Do you guys think this concept should be explored in greater detail in future books? If so, do you think they should show us some of the more negative aspects of Space Marine rule?

 

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

There was also the Badab Protectorate, in which Lugft Huron claimed direct rulership over Badab and the neighbouring systems. Suffice to say, it did not end well. There's also the Salamanders, who appear to be doing an ok job of things. It's not Ultramar, but they certainly seem to be doing well.

 

The thing to remember is that, by and large, the Astartes do not have human thought processes. They're taken as children, hypnoindoctrinated and basically brainwashed until they are living weapons. They outright do not have the same drives, needs and wants as a normal human. In this regard, the Ultramarines should really be an outlier. Guilliman basically designed his Legion entirely around being good leaders for the human population. For the mentality of other Chapters, just look at the Black Templars in Helsreach. They're almost outright contemptuous of the weak, pathetic humans around them. It appears to be similar to how the Astral Claws viewed the population of the Protectorate.

 

Basically, Astartes are essentially a different species, and both have entirely different goals. The Astartes are weapons, first and foremost, and so their lives and minds are structured around that. It doesn't exactly match up with "ok, now organise and lead this society in a way that revolves around peace, without just militarising everything".

[DogWelder]

Yes, what's interesting is that they've actually become a self-sufficient sub-species of humanity after the Heresy. One with a tremendous amount of influence over the Imperium and a willingness to use it when they feel threatened or feel that the Imperium is not being run as it should be.

 

Take the example of the Imperial Fists and their successors seizing power on Terra during the War of the Beast. Or the Ultramarines invading Terra with 50 other successor chapters after the Beheading and completely reorganizing the Imperial Government because they did not approve of the post-war administration.

 

I feel Guilliman and the Ultramarines have another use for developing their skills as governors besides the immediate benefit of their citizens: to prevent their own obsolescence. They realize that if they are viewed as weapons, they will simply be thrown away once the war is over. 

 

But if they become statesman and leaders, integral to the proper governance of their realm and if the common citizenry becomes dependent on them, they will ensure that their Legion can survive indefinitely. A long-term survival plan if you will.

 

This is further seen in Dark Imperium. When Guilliman strong-armed all those defiant planets into becoming Greater Ultramar, the common citizenry put their full support on the side of the Ultramarines, with only the nobles and political class dissenting. They made themselves loved by the masses (taking the advice of Machiavelli) and therefore secured their future since, once they have the backing of those trillions of Imperial citizens, no one can pose any kind of political risk to them at all.

Edited February 27, 2018 by DogWelder

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

This principle only works in Ultramar, because Ultramarines are often recruited from noble stock. This means you aren't "just" a Space Marine ruler, you're a superhuman with superhuman intellect from a cultured lineage steeped in a tradition and environment of diplomacy and civil betterment. Obviously a World Eater would make a worse ruler than an Ultramarine, just like a random planetary governor would make a worse ruler than an Ultramarian planetary governor, so it makes sense that an Ultramarine would make a better ruler than an Ultramar citizen, just like a superhuman ruler would make a better rule than a mortal ruler in terms of ruling ability. And keep in mind even despite the Ultramar empire's focus on establishing and maintaining flourishing kingdoms, Guilliman was STILL disappointed in most Ultramar's rulers and had them ousted and replaced with successor Marines.

 

It isn't explored outside of the realm of Ultramar exactly because of that lack of diplomacy from the wilder lineages and chapters that recruit from wastelands and feral worlds, and you can see what happens just from your own quote. In fact, we saw the exact same happen in the new Black Panther movie too.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Tyberos the Red Wake

[Lord_Caerolion]

They're recruited at around 10 years old though, they're not exactly master politicians or statesmen at that age. They don't really get any "intelligence enhancements" either, it seems that it's more that as they tend to live longer, so they get a bit wiser.

[DogWelder]

They're recruited at around 10 years old though, they're not exactly master politicians or statesmen at that age. They don't really get any "intelligence enhancements" either, it seems that it's more that as they tend to live longer, so they get a bit wiser.

 

True but Ultramarine recruits are recruited from the noble families of Ultramar so they're pretty much bred from day 1 for the role since literally all of the noble families are falling over themselves to offer up their sons to the Ultramarines since its a mark of great prestige.

 

Cato Sicarius for example was Grand Duke of Talassar and trained for the role since he was born and retained the title even when he joined the Ultramarines Chapter. It actually leads to an interesting class divide (Cato looking down on Uriel since he's from a lesser noble farming guild on Calth). 

[Trevak Dal]

I don't think it's that humanity is "too stupid to govern themselves" it's that space marines are just naturally better at everything they put their minds to. Everybody always forget humanity had a interstellar empire before the Long Night. They didn't have Space Marines, or Primarchs, or the Emperor, or the Astronomicon. Regular vanilla humans, used their super awesome tech to make worlds habitable for us.

 

We had a major backslide, allowing that Immortal guy his chance to unite all of disparate humanity under one flag.

 

Didn't bother mandating uplifting of all found and laid colonies though.

 

Huron wanted to-without permission, help rebuild a successor chapter, and wanted more marine chapters to secure the Badab sector from hostile forces. The bean counters said 'No' and he stopped paying his taxes.

 

Al Capone had several people murdered, ran guns, gambling and prostitution. He went to prison (and died there) for not paying his :cussing taxes. Seems it's the same in the 41st millennium.

 

His allies didn't know he was hoarding his chapters geneseed and getting up to Black Templar (conservative estimate of their Numbers ~10,000).

 

Had he gone about it the correct way, kept paying his tithe and the planets tithe, the Imperium wouldn't have cared if he sodomized the two richest and poorest people in his realm.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Trevak Dal

[momerathe]

There's another interesting issue around this - the Emperor's design. It's clear that the Emperor intended his empire to be for the benefit of baseline humans; he didn't engage in widespread genetic uplift, and his superhuman warriors were basically disposable tools. However, equally obviously, Emps' design has gone completely off the rails in the past 10k years.

 

Given the example of Ultramar, and given that Roboute's now in charge of the whole Imperium, perhaps this is an indication of a change in the path for humanity.

[Marshal Rohr]

There is a political theory called transhuman hyper-fascism, which boils down to a heirarchy of ability transhumans would naturally move to the top of. It’s a common trope in sci-fi. The current Netflix series Altered Carbon touches on it. The singularity theories touch on. That movie transcendence hit some notes. Transhumans will be better than humans in almost every way, and hyper fascism describes the centralization of political authority under the transhumans.

 

Ultramar is an example of this in 40k. Horus’ political goals roughly align with this.

[utilityzero]

Ultramar actually is a sort of utopia. Remember that utopia doesn't mean a world that is wonderful and gives everything to everyone. It means a world that functions perfectly as intended. You could have a utopian autocracy or something similar. Just as dystopian isn't about quality of life, it's a world or system that doesn't function at all and provides none of what it promises.

[Captain Idaho]

It's worth pointing out that Ultramar is a collection of planets who retain their planetary governors who are all human, with very few exceptions (less than 10, I believe it was less than 5 actually).

 

Transhumans are not the dominant force in upper echelons of the 500 Worlds except the central leadership and even then they delegate out for the most part (unless you honestly believe Agemman spends his time doing paperwork and visiting new power plant openings).

 

So to liken Ultramar to a transhuman tyranny (facism is inaccurate as that's a political system of governance rather than a dictatorahip) is inaccurate and somewhat unfair. Especially as most humans in the aristocracy of the Imperium are transhumans somehow thanks to technology.

 

Ultramar certainly has heavy leanings from Adeptus Astartes leadership but that is what makes it stand out rather than the term transhuman, which would arguably include Adeptus Mechanicus and any genetically modified beings.

[Marshal Rohr]

It's worth pointing out that Ultramar is a collection of planets who retain their planetary governors who are all human, with very few exceptions (less than 10, I believe it was less than 5 actually).

 

Transhumans are not the dominant force in upper echelons of the 500 Worlds except the central leadership and even then they delegate out for the most part (unless you honestly believe Agemman spends his time doing paperwork and visiting new power plant openings).

 

So to liken Ultramar to a transhuman tyranny (facism is inaccurate as that's a political system of governance rather than a dictatorahip) is inaccurate and somewhat unfair. Especially as most humans in the aristocracy of the Imperium are transhumans somehow thanks to technology.

 

Ultramar certainly has heavy leanings from Adeptus Astartes leadership but that is what makes it stand out rather than the term transhuman, which would arguably include Adeptus Mechanicus and any genetically modified beings.

 

The upper echelons of Imperial Society are almost always transhuman. They live longer, cybernetically enhance their bodies, etc. Fascism is used here in the systemic definition - i.e. centralized authoritarian government with corporatist economic structure. I say corporatist because so much of the Imperial Economy is run by oligarchs, cartels, guilds, and syndicates. Almost none of it is 'small business' to use a popular colloquialism. Also, I'm specifically thinking of the Great Crusade era, when the entire Imperium functioned as intended. 

[Captain Idaho]

Facism is not corporate though. It's off topic but it is actual a branch of socialism, hence the centralisation of power and wealth. Controversial so let's not dwell on it, but Ultramar is more a feudal system rather than a socialist tyranny.

 

As such, humans hold much of the power. They might not lead over Guilliman, who in fact is ceding leadership to the Tetrachs at any rate, but the humans run the commerce that fuels the economy, crew the ships, man the factories and plough the fields... Ultramar runs by the leaders of these endeavours given positions of power and trust.

 

As such Ultramar is run feudally and the heads of state are Adeptus Astartes in the form of the Tetrachs. Humanity is certainly not downtrodden there.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Captain Idaho

[Marshal Rohr]

We can have a mature discussion about it without bringing the real world into it. Fascism is authoritarian which is why it share the same side of the political compass with authoritarian communism. Feudalism, in my understanding, requires a pre-industrial, agrarian society. In a post-industrial or industrial society feudalism makes way for rentierism or oligopoly. I'd have to revisit the Calpurnia series, but I remember merchant houses being a thing - which would support a something beyond feudalism. Feudalism also implies a systemic lack of central authority, with the monarch simply being a relatively more powerful lord, which isnt the case in Ultramar - because the Monarch holds central, absolute authority but does not implement it in a micromanagerial fashion.

[momerathe]

Facism is not corporate though. It's off topic but it is actual a branch of socialism, hence the centralisation of power and wealth.

No, God no. This myth needs to die in a fire; just because the Nazis called themselves "national socialists" does not make it true, any more than the "Democratic" People's Republic of North Korea.

 

It's worth noting that the GW writers deliberately designed the Imperium to be fascist. It's explicitly as bad as possible, and melds all the worst examples from human history. Perhaps the definitive analysis of fascism is by Umberto Eco in Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt; you can go through the list and tick them off.

Edited March 1, 2018 by momerathe

[Marshal Rohr]

I guess we can’t have a mature discussion about it

[Captain Idaho]

I don't agree that the Imperium is particularly facist. It operates on a vassal based system on a macro level. It's certainly authoritarian on the macro level, though individual planets might be democratic etc.

 

Regardless, the topic on hand being Ultramar and Space Marines rulership. Ultramar is a place where there isn't dominance of the lowly human as that's against the way things go in Ultramar.

 

@ momerathe: I'll send you a PM that explains my position. If you don't want to discuss the subject no worries :)

 

@ Marshal Rohr: I was referring to Ultramar on a very basic manner being feudal. I didn't think splitting hairs pertinent regarding the subject of Space Marines being good or bad for human hierarchies.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Imperium as a whole is not particularly fascistic, agreed. Ultramar, especially during the Great crusade, arguably could considered as such though. I’m not gonna beat a dead horse about it though. I think I laid out my evidence fairly when handedly.

[Captain Idaho]

The real question, whether we can agree on specific terminology or not (I think Ultramar is closer to an industrial-serfdom empire, like feudalism or neofeudalism whereas you think it closer to facism - we both mean the same thing I believe) is whether Ultramar is a particularly fair and nice place to live in comparison to other Imperial worlds BECAUSE of Space Marine influence or not.

 

As I've mentioned already, I feel the Adeptus Astartes of Ultramar do not govern with a closed fist as tyrants as the power is spread throughout the region depending on hard work and what is earnt as much as possible. Space Marines do have overall command but that's more as guiding figureheads first rather than specific administrators.

[DogWelder]

Its a mixture of both really. It really depends on the personality of the Ultramarine who has been chosen as Praefactor or overseer. The Praefactor has ultimate authority over the planet and his commands are law.

 

However, for this reason, only aged Ultramarine veterans or Ultramarines who can no longer fight with 100% efficiency are chosen for this role. Then this candidate has to be approved by the Chapter Master and the Ultramarian Senate on Macragge. 

 

So while it is theoretically possible for an Ultramarine to run a planet like a tyrant, an extremely strict vetting process ensures that the right kind of people are selected. 

[Skaorn]

There is of course the fact background is written with an imperial bent, lauding the jewel of the Imperium. It could still be that everyone is so shiny and happy because they have to be or their neighbors will report them to the secret police.

[Captain Idaho]

There is an element of that I'm sure but looking at Dark Imperium and other 40K novels and the humans of each planet seem happy enough with their position. Indeed, many of the leadership class at Guilliman's council were non-Space Marines.

[Laughingman]

30K ultramar  (and dark imperium 40K)   aways struck me as very hobbesian in nature.  Ultramar was to be ruled by benevolent philosopher/warrior kings above mortal wants. Probably a solid plan given the sorry state of the 500 worlds in the circa m41.