Who should have lightning claws? (And other power weapons)

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

I have a Lightning claw bit and I want to use it but I don't know who to give it to. Crusader? Sword brother sarg? Vanguard? And is it worth it to give then just the one?

Edited February 28, 2018 by +Chaplain Matthias+

[Firepower]

Well, a regular Crusader can't take it.  Aside from that...dunno.  I really never consider Lightning Claws without taking a pair.  Then again, I have occasionally considered Vanguard with Claws and Shields, though.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Firepower

[Margulix]

Wll i think the main problem of claws is s4 and low ap. So i never consider taking them. But it may be worth in vanguard with Helbrecht's +1 str. 

[tvih]

Lightning claw actually being able to benefit from taking two, it kinda makes sense to take two. In 6th/7th I sometimes took a claw with a fist or hammer so I could choose which attack to use, but of course that's pointless in a wasteful kind of way now in 8th. Anyway, claws can be pretty good against numerous 4+/5+ enemies, although the price does add up especially if you were to use it on a single-wound model that therefore dies easily. And of course if you only have a single one, well... still anything with as many attacks as possible, I guess. HQs, elite unit sergeants? Which gives me an idea of a Company Veteran Bike Sergeant posed so that his lightning claw is scraping the ground as he approaches the enemy with murder in his eyes! I really ought to assemble my marine bikes. Maybe I'll assemble at least the one to try that out!

[Schlitzaf]

As an aside my favorite personal use is TwinClaw Marshall

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Surely the best place for one is on a Castellan? Then you get to re-roll at least some of the failed wounds.

[Honda]

It can also be a "counts as" power sword.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Especially if you cut off the outside ones and just leave the middle finger...

[Honda]

Especially if you cut off the outside ones and just leave the middle finger...

 

 

<uses Jar Jar voice> 'How wude!"

[Ebon Hand]

Lightning claws already reroll failed wounds don't they? They're really nasty in large groups when you have rerolls to hit making them now reroll hits and wounds.

 

Their weakness is t5+ troops and especially t8, but if you're running Helbrecht or a Chaplain Dread, they become even nastier vs almost anything 3+ save or worse. Vs 2+ saves, the -2 rend won't do as much unless it's a unit with a 3 or 4+ inv, in which case they are better than most other weapons.

 

I could see taking a single claw if you are running a sword brother or a character with a combi. Shield/claw is not a terrible idea either if you are having trouble with power weapon wielding meqs or don't expect to be able to strike first. Otherwise the double claw feels like a better buy as you get a discount on the second claw and lightning claws like their weight of attacks.

 

Combine those claw rerolls with Grimaldus and it starts to get zealous really fast!

Edited February 27, 2018 by Ebon Hand

[tvih]

Surely the best place for one is on a Castellan? Then you get to re-roll at least some of the failed wounds.

 

The claw itself gives rerolls for wounds, regardless of what model you put it on.

[Firepower]

Ebon, I never thought of combining Helbrecht and a Chaplain Dread (which I have the itch to refer to as Chappie from now on :teehee:).

 

God I wish I could afford another Dread!

Edited February 27, 2018 by Firepower

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

Damn I just need to play a game with someone so this will all make more sense. I get it now, but I need that intuitive experiential understanding haha

[Ebon Hand]

Just imagine the Chaplain next to Helbrecht. Just Chappie alone would be str 8, with the powerfist making him S16. How's that for keeping it gangster? Bonus points if you call Helbrecht Ninja and Grimaldus Yolandi.

 

We're talking levels of righteous anger not seen since Dorn himself challenged the hiding coward Peturabo in the iron cage. Chappie will make pretty much anything t8 or lower go to sleep.

 

Seriously though, s5 is a magic number for many power weapons for both strength doubling and in the case of lightning claws, getting that +1 on the wounding rolls vs t5 and t8, which seem to be more and more prevalent in my area.

 

Things like Death Guard, Custodes or bike mounted marines can be a serious pita for lightning claws, which is why I run a few thunderhammers in my lightning claw Terminators.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Ebon Hand

[Firepower]

So in that regard, Lightning Claws and Swords need a buff, but Axes, Mauls and Lances (which Bikes, even the Sergeant, no longer have access to, because me) are already golden?  Just in regards to economics.  Can't afford to go giving everyone Hammers after all.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Firepower

[Schlitzaf]

Swords are good for killing MeQ. Because -3 has less variance on saves and makes Killy non Shield Terminators. Axes by math I believe are best statistical weapon but don’t quote me on that. Mauls best aspect is wounding T3 on 2’s

[Firepower]

I would argue the Mauls' best attribute is that they look dead sexy ;)

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

Oh no, axes are better than swords in general? Dammit swords are sexy so I put them on everything lol. I have more sword brethren to make so I'll make a few with axes too. This is why I can't ask questions that could lead to mathhammer. They make me question myself too much. I just want to +burn witches+ and +cleave heretics!+

[Firepower]

Well, you can always raid the forge for a supply of Thine Holy Magnets of Adaptability, to avoid such problems in the future.

[Honda]

I just want to +burn witches+ and +cleave heretics!+

 

 

This.

 

Just do it!

[Ebon Hand]

In my opinion, against most targets axes are better than swords until you add +1 str and/or rerolls to wound. Then Power swords are better generally speaking.

 

With +1 str axes still come in handy vs t6 heavy infantry like Wraithguard. Mauls are nice too for the same reason.

 

@Firepower Biker sergeants can take axes and mauls. No lances, but lances have the same stats as power mauls anyway. They can do some decent cc vs shooting units.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Ebon Hand

[Firepower]

@Firepower Biker sergeants can take axes and mauls. No lances, but lances have the same stats as power mauls anyway. They can do some decent cc vs shooting units.

Ahh, the golden days...

Case in point, these were the days before I embraced magnets. And each of those arms is like 3 parts, so I'm not too keen to go snapping them off to change that

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

In my opinion, against most targets axes are better than swords until you add +1 str and/or rerolls to wound. Then Power swords are better generally speaking.

 

With +1 str axes still come in handy vs t6 heavy infantry like Wraithguard. Mauls are nice too for the same reason.

 

@Firepower Biker sergeants can take axes and mauls. No lances, but lances have the same stats as power mauls anyway. They can do some decent cc vs shooting units.

 

 

Ohh ok so in general, swords if they're going to roll with Helbrecht or a Castellan. Axes otherwise

[Ebon Hand]

Don't you dare snap those off. Proxy if you must. I can't see anyone objecting unless they're a tight arse. :P

[Firepower]

My KR multicase is inclined to snap them off for me (it already broke off the tail lantern on one).  Those things don't leave much room for dynamic posing, and tearing out enough space was a pain.

 

If only we still had melee bike squads, you could stick the Lightning Claw on that

 

Anyway, at the end of the day choosing a single power weapon generally* won't make a huge difference.  Taking them in bulk (i.e. all swords, all axes) is when the difference piles up.

 

*This changes depending on how many attacks the model has, which off the top of my head will only ever be 2 with non-HQ models, and barring special rules that give extra attacks.  A Marshal's choice of weapon is relatively significant compared to a single Sword Brother.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Firepower