Ruinstorm (HH#46)/Fate of the Traitor legions' homeworld

[Lord_Caerolion]

True, I did get it wrong when I said the Ultramarines were basically untouched. Even so, the Traitors were largely removed as effective fighting forces. The Emperors Children had given up all hopes of strategic planning, the World Eaters were still hanging in there, just waiting for Khârn to shatter them at Skalathrax, the Sons of Horus were in full-fledged rout, the Night Lords had already been scattered, and now barely held together by an insane Primarch, the Iron Warriors would have taken incredibly heavy casualties on Terra, and were already spread across the galaxy rather than united. I can't imagine the Death Guard or Thousand Sons were in much good shape after Terra, the Alpha Legion were never really "unified", and the death of Horus at the hands of the Emperor probably had a similar effect on the faith of the Word Bearers as Monarchia did.

 

It's true that the Loyalist Legions were in pretty bad shape too, but the Ultramarines are now, after all the beatings, down to the size some other Legions were at their height, the Dark Angels have broken free from being pestered by the Night Lords and are now Very Very Angry, and the Wolves are beaten and bloody but still the Wolves. 

[karden00]

 

Whatever will happen, I certainly would like to read a novel about the Lion, his legion, and other avenger times striking out and make target practices of traitor homeworlds.

The Lion, as the commander of this task would designate his team as, the "Imperial wrath".

This what I would like to see: He initially wanted to destroy all the homeworlds, but then Guilliman was like "do not touch Colchis. Leave that one to me, brother".

 

The way you wrote that, brother, is bloody, beautifully hilarious.

 

That's so strange, on my mobile, the blue text comes out in this really houty-touty looking cursive, which really adds to the mood of the line, whereas on my laptop it comes out on comic sans. 

Bummer. 

[Manchu warlord]

 

 

Whatever will happen, I certainly would like to read a novel about the Lion, his legion, and other avenger times striking out and make target practices of traitor homeworlds.

The Lion, as the commander of this task would designate his team as, the "Imperial wrath".

This what I would like to see: He initially wanted to destroy all the homeworlds, but then Guilliman was like "do not touch Colchis. Leave that one to me, brother".

 

The way you wrote that, brother, is bloody, beautifully hilarious.

 

That's so strange, on my mobile, the blue text comes out in this really houty-touty looking cursive, which really adds to the mood of the line, whereas on my laptop it comes out on comic sans. 

Bummer. 

 

I share your perplexity, brother.

[Laughingman]

The Dark angels probably were too far away from segmentum pacificus to burn Colchis and Khur in a timely manner, and left it for a later date.... interestingly Chemos and Barbarous aren't exactly close together at least in real space, cthonia is closer to the sol system, but probably had actual garrison and decent planetary defense system, making it an unappealing target...

[Lord Marshal]

 

I imagine that the Scouring is a two sided affair.

On the one hand, any planet/system that declared for Horus and then learned he is super dead, but Guilliman, Dorn, The Lion, The Khagan, and maybe Corax was coming a knocking, I can’t imagine they would really resist. 

 

were those worlds reclaimed or just wiped out ?

 

 

Too many worlds would have been enslaved or sided with Horus to afford wiping them all out is my guess. I imagine pretty much the entire government and any known sympathisers were executed, but the vast majority of the worlds and their population was kept intact... at least, if they didn't resist.

 

The exception would probably be those worlds where Chaos corruption had actually manifested both on the planet itself and the population. Even in the wake of the Horus Heresy though, the Imperium was likely still very naive to the influence and impact of Chaos so I expect a lot of the more subtle effects didn't manifest until later, thus the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy's shift into more extreme methods as he centuries rolled on.

 

That's just my theory anyway.

[DarkChaplain]

Honestly though... it's the Lion we're talking about here. If he stayed true to character, he would definitely blow up Colchis with every weapon at his disposal, regardless of who told him not to.

 

Remember, one of the main reasons the feud between the Dark Angels and Space Wolves began was because the Lion killed a rebellious ruler that Leman Russ wanted to personally execute himself.

 

Thus, I cannot help but get an image in my head of the Lion hammering the "Exterminatus" button on the bridge of his flagship whilst giggling like a schoolgirl at how mad Guilliman will be when he finds out.

 

 

Yeah, but that ruler was a pretty small fry compared to the Legion homeworlds, let alone that of the Legion that devastated Ultramar even before the Lion came around to join Guilliman for a few years. While the Lion would undoubtedly pull the trigger were he in a position to, he'd have to actively seek out Colchis first. With so many juicy targets available, it isn't hard to believe that he'd have left it to Guilliman, seeing how he can only be in one place at any given time.

[TheRealMcCagh]

Doesn't the epilogue of KNF have Ventatus planting the Ultramarine standard on the dead world of Colchis?

[MrDarth151]

Doesn't the epilogue of KNF have Ventatus planting the Ultramarine standard on the dead world of Colchis?

 

It does. It's the old standard he held at Calth.

[TheRealMcCagh]

That kind of tells us who scoured Colchis then no? I don't think sticking your flag on a planet someone else conquered is a very Space Marine thing to do

[bluntblade]

Not a homeworld per se, but the Ultramarines laid waste much of the old Nostraman Empire. More was later reconquered by unidentified forces led by Crysos Moturg.

[MrDarth151]

That kind of tells us who scoured Colchis then no? I don't think sticking your flag on a planet someone else conquered is a very Space Marine thing to do

 

Considering that they explicitly had a battle barge with primed cyclonic torpedoes aimed at it in that scene, I think it is very clear.

 

Who can say though? It wouldn't be the first thing retconned.

[Indefragable]

Honestly though... it's the Lion we're talking about here. If he stayed true to character, he would definitely blow up Colchis with every weapon at his disposal, regardless of who told him not to.

 

Remember, one of the main reasons the feud between the Dark Angels and Space Wolves began was because the Lion killed a rebellious ruler that Leman Russ wanted to personally execute himself.

 

Thus, I cannot help but get an image in my head of the Lion hammering the "Exterminatus" button on the bridge of his flagship whilst giggling like a schoolgirl at how mad Guilliman will be when he finds out.

 

See....I thing giggling like a schoolgirl is the last thing the Lion would ever do. He takes pleasure in neither upsetting nor pleasing anyone else. There is only victory.

 

To me, the very best depiction of the Lion in all of BL literature so far is his brief dialogue with the king of Dulan in the Primarch series Leman Russ:

 

"I am here, and you are not"

 

I can't remember the exact wording, but there's an epic moment of dialogue when the king of Dulan has a "what if our roles were reversed, boy? Would you surrender? Would you know when you were beaten?"  moment with the Lion. It's almost touching in how the king points that his empire was not all that different from the Imperium....until the Lion just curbstomps the entire exchange with something along the lines of "Perhaps. But I am here, and you are not. All that matters is that I am the one conquering you, not the other way around. And that is all that matters."

 

But it also represents the Lion's approach to things: he knew Russ wanted to personally take the head of the king,so he waited a bit. But the war had timetables and those timetables were in jeopardy for waiting any longer, so personal pride and requests be :cuss . Time to decapitate this ruler and move on with it. There's another empire to conquer after this one and it's almost rush hour on the galatic freeway.

[Xisor]

I only recently read Ruinstorm (last week or so), and I was pleasantly surprised by how consistently enjoyable it was. (I find David Annandale's work can be frustrating for me - varying from brilliant to annoying and back to brilliant in the space of a paragraph, let alone from chapter to chapter. So it's a genuinely pleasant surprise. Not absolutely unexpected, but it was great to see it done.)

 

Anyway, with the Lion and the plan - we know it's only a vaguely specific statement of intent. 'Here's the plan...', but they're only just through the Ruinstorm at that point, and dealing with the derailing of their initial plan too. (As well as the other thematic and symbolic plot points the book raises, which I'll not detail here.)

 

Suffice to say: the Lion may intend to sack Colchis, but his plan will be dictated as much by what is actually practically achievable as by what is theoretically possible. Guilliman is a pragmatist, but the Lion

is just getting conceptually to grips with the symbolism and idealism involved in opposing Chaos. Personally, if I was reading David's writing correctly, it seemed that the Lion was seeing the necessity of moving from shrewd secretiveness to decisive denial - hence obliterating things, rather than proceeding along enigmatic paths a la Alpha Legion.

 

That could just be personal interpretation on my part, but when combined with the sheer practicalities of their situation (and the Lion's newfound respect for sometimes not being pragmatic) my gut says that the Lion is laying heavily into a particularly pleasureless form of vengeance. Cold and calculated, but with a glimmer of insight and understanding that's far beyond the mere logistics of winning the war.

 

In short: Ruinstorm got me really excited for this side-line relating to the Siege of Terra. If the Lion has to learn that his efforts at symbolic warfare aren't quite as good as he wants them to be, that could be a fascinating trajectory!

[Manchu warlord]

So, if the Lion intend to go on a rampage on traitor controlled worlds.  Guilliman will continue to distract the traitor's fleet so Sanguinius could slip away.  What would the XIII legion do then, once they cleared out the traitor's fleet (assuming they do)? 

Those of you guys, who are perpetually up-to-date with the lore, any ideas?

[Indefragable]

So, if the Lion intend to go on a rampage on traitor controlled worlds. Guilliman will continue to distract the traitor's fleet so Sanguinius could slip away. What would the XIII legion do then, once they cleared out the traitor's fleet (assuming they do)?

Those of you guys, who are perpetually up-to-date with the lore, a

ny ideas?

Remnants of a single Legion attacking the rear of perhaps the single largest massing of ships, warriors, and munitions ever seen....that’s mighty optimistic even for Mr. Plot-Armor Spiritual Liege himself.

[Tarvek Val]

 

Remnants of a single Legion attacking the rear of perhaps the single largest massing of ships, warriors, and munitions ever seen....that’s mighty optimistic even for Mr. Plot-Armor Spiritual Liege himself.

 

 

Nah let him go for it, I would love to see the one-sided outcome of this. 

 

PS thanks for the laugh! "Mr. Plot-Armor Spiritual Liege" indeed

[Laughingman]

Alternatively the lions intention may have been a scorched earth campaign against the traitors... "You may win at terra, but you rule over a kingdom of ash"..... Especially when he intended to destroy the recruiting base of two legion that largely recruited from single worlds.

[Mellow]

Do we know how many years the Scouring lasted? From what I understand it was a pretty long undertaking, at least 20 years.

I certainly hope not. The HH was 7 years right? ... and that’s taken 50 books. I don’t think I could handle a scouring series if it was longer. I’m hoping scouring will be 1 book a month for a year. Just like TBA.

[bluntblade]

I think the Scouring unfolded in stages, with Warp turbulence making it impossible to reach much of the outer Imperium and the sheer level of destruction ensuring a much slower rate of conquest.

[Karthak]

Note that while the World Eaters didn't have a home world per se, by the time of the Battle of Terra their primary muster world of Bodt had already been obliterated by Autek Mor (Ferrus Manus sends his regards).

[Manchu warlord]

So what about Cthonia?  Those of you guys that seem to know all the latest rumors, any idea of its fate?

[Laughingman]

Cthonia likely had a larger legion garrison and recruiting center as well as decent system defenses, it was nether isolated (like Barbarus look it up on a map) or falling apart internally (imagine what the Emperors children had turned Chemos into by the end of the Horus Heresy). Cthonia was likely burned to ash in the early counter-offensives of the scouring, It was reasonably close to terra, and presented a large symbolic target for loyalists....

[bluntblade]

Doesn't old fluff say that the very geology had become terminally unstable?

[Manchu warlord]

Note that while the World Eaters didn't have a home world per se, by the time of the Battle of Terra their primary muster world of Bodt had already been obliterated by Autek Mor (Ferrus Manus sends his regards).

I would love for their to be a book on that.  It would be like the battle of Armatura (in Betrayer), but reverse.

[Mantras]

I like the narrative that the Lion goes around killing traitor legion home worlds, seeing the degradation and corruption first hand, and delivering the killing blow. Makes so much sense that, after having done that 2 or 3 times, when he arrives at Caliban and sees those same signs, he follows the same pattern.