Question about Gloss varnish darkening colors when applied

[m0nolith]

Question: Will all gloss varnishes always darken colors (in this case red) when applied, or do some brands darken less than others?

So far iv only used Vallejo gloss varnish.

Edited February 28, 2018 by m0nolith

[Major_Gilbear]

It always makes nearly all colours look darker and richer. Matte always makes nearly all colours a little lighter.

 

This is due to the way that each finish reflects light.

 

If you apply gloss varnish, and then matte over it later, the matte re-lightens the colours again.

[m0nolith]

It always makes nearly all colours look darker and richer. Matte always makes nearly all colours a little lighter.

 

This is due to the way that each finish reflects light.

 

If you apply gloss varnish, and then matte over it later, the matte re-lightens the colours again.

Thats the exact reasons I'm asking.

I have some models I first covered with Vallejo Gloss for protection, and then I tried different matt brands to flatten them and bring the colors up.

Vallejo, Army Painter, Mr Super Clear UV, nothing Iv tried brings the color back to where it was before I hit it with gloss.

[Major_Gilbear]

I use a clear gloss PU varnish, and then matte with Testor's Dullcote afterwards.

 

After the Dullcote, the colours are notably lighter and softer, and are very (indistinguishably) close to the unvarnished colours.

 

I presume that you've compared an unvarnished model to a gloss-then-matte sealed one to see the colour difference? Did you try sealing with just matte varnish on its own? It may seem silly to ask, but it's an easy way to determine which of the two varnishes is causing the issue - not all varnishes are completely clear, and some can be a little yellow/sepia if applied too thickly.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that not all paints have the exact same reflective finish. However, when you varnish them, all the reflective finishes across the model are basically "levelled". This can sometimes leave some highlights not looking as bright or as smooth as they did before varnishing. Unfortunately the only way around this is to account for it whilst painting, and that takes a little practice and/or trial and error.

[Achinadav]

Is there a particular brand of clear gloss PU that you'd recommend? Brand names are the easiest way to find products. Cheers.

[Major_Gilbear]

The stuff I use is made by Ronseal in the UK, but I don't think they make the exact type any more (not to mention that it came in 5L tins only). However, they do still make many similar ones like this for example. Other high-end brands are Sikkens, Manns, and Bona.

[m0nolith]

I use a clear gloss PU varnish, and then matte with Testor's Dullcote afterwards.

 

After the Dullcote, the colours are notably lighter and softer, and are very (indistinguishably) close to the unvarnished colours.

 

I presume that you've compared an unvarnished model to a gloss-then-matte sealed one to see the colour difference? Did you try sealing with just matte varnish on its own? It may seem silly to ask, but it's an easy way to determine which of the two varnishes is causing the issue - not all varnishes are completely clear, and some can be a little yellow/sepia if applied too thickly.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that not all paints have the exact same reflective finish. However, when you varnish them, all the reflective finishes across the model are basically "levelled". This can sometimes leave some highlights not looking as bright or as smooth as they did before varnishing. Unfortunately the only way around this is to account for it whilst painting, and that takes a little practice and/or trial and error.

I did indeed compare it to an unsealed model.

Its definitely the gloss varnish that is causing the colors to darken, the effect is immediate when gloss is applied.

I understand that this is a pretty common occurrence when it comes to gloss on Red, i'm just wondering if there are any brands that dont darken so much as Vallejo.

[Ekfud]

That sounds familiar... I usually gloss over the basecoat so the washes stick closer in recesses... but then doing brush edging looks much starker as paints tend to be closer to matt. Adding either matt (which lightens the base coat) or gloss (which darkens the edges) makes the final result look closer together than it looks while painting. I've tended to finish with a matt varnish as the final step (well... maybe a brush gloss on gemstones at the very end). 

 

One thing I have been playing with is a vallejo semi-gloss varnish as a middle ground between matt/glass - it's closer to the natural finish of the GW paints, and seems to also attract less dust to stick to it compared to the matt. Having said that - it looked a bit poor over the top of dust/weathering effects... 

 

Edit: as per post above - I also have a ~1L bottle of old pledge polish. You can't get it in Aus these days but I bought it to do model aircraft as a high-gloss before doing oil pin washing. It's excellent for giving a smooth wash-friendly finish and because you are effectively giving it a floor sealant it is very hardy even over super thin layers of paint for protection. Of course - the same question applies to final colouring... do you go over the pledge with a matt varnish to knock the shine off it...? 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Ekfud