Killing Big Scary Things with Guns

[Explorer1]

So, the other thread  I Started was about killing Big Scary Things in combat. Now I want to talk about killing Big Scary Things (BSTs) with guns. 

 

But first a couple of restrictions. I dont want to run vehicles, and I dont want to run Devastators ... I know, I know, silly, but it is what it is.

 

So that kinda boils it down to Melta and Plasma - so, what's the best delivery mechanism for Melta and Plasma? I can think of the following options

• Veterans. The problem here is the delivery mechanism. I know that Jump Packs are still technically legal via that weird flow chart, but it doubt that will survive for long, and a few tourneys are ruling codex only. That leaves Drop Pods. Which makes for a pretty expensive unit.
• Assault Squads. Reasonable cheap, but only 2 of each weapons means you would need multiple units to kill the BST.
• Bikes. Bikes with 2 Melta Guns or 2 Plasma Guns work out much the same points as assault squads, They have the same problem though, you would need multiple squads 
• Inceptors. Three of them with Plasma  "on average" kick out 12 shots. That's enough to cause a dent! 
• Vanguard Veterans. These ones nearly passed me buy, but 5 with double Plasma Pistol is pretty good value, less than the Inceptors, and a guaranteed 10 shots as opposed to a random 6d3.
• Hellbalsters. The problem with them is, in a list without Vehicles they would be footslogging 

So, what do you all think?

 

[BluejayJunior]

Of the bunch you have listed, I'd say Hellblasters are the best. I haven't run plasma inceptors, so I can't speak from experience, but I have seen others say they are good.

With no vehicles, you'd probably want 3-4 units of them. They can be pretty devastating.

Dreadnought with twin las and a missile launcher could help. I know they're vehicles, but they're not what I think of when I think vehicles. Depending on how you look at it. 

[CaptainMarsh]

Hellblasters have the range on their weapons that footslogging isn't the worst thing. They are the best option listed.

[MeltaRange]

Plasma Inceptors are unbelievably good in my opinion in a BA list.  Could go on about it for awhile but I already have in a few other threads in the forums.  It boils down Upon Wings of Fire, Decent of Angels, and good positioning.  I'd strongly consider a unit of 6 which can be combat squadded if necessary.  To me, these guys being dropped in points make gunslinging VV totally obsolete.

 

I do also like Assault Plasma Hellblasters because they have 2 shots @ 24".  Most people go with regular ones and they are fine too.

Where plasma falls down though, is whenever you encounter something that's -1 or more to hit.  There are a lot of things like out there now.  However, that's why BA are great because they have a lot of options to be able to counter the minuses to hit by charging (reliably) and striking them in melee.  So you could potentially combo the Inceptor threat with a big time melee threat coming down from orbit.  The rest of your army is there to mainly clear chaff and position yourself properly to be able to take out the big scary things.

 

What about Dreadnoughts?  They can be good gun platforms.  

Sternguard coming out of a Drop Pod with some Multi-Meltas/Combi-Meltas?

[Explorer1]

I don't understand the support for Hellblasters. For 5pts less you can get VV's with double plasma pistols, that are more mobile and can deep strike. The Hellblasters have more wounds of course, but surely the mobility makes ups for that? And 3 Inceptors have (on average) more shots, are almost as mobile as the VV, and are T5. For only 12pts more. 

 

What am I missing?

 

The problem I see with Inceptors is the random number of shots. Sure the average of three is 12 (6d3), but there will be turns when you throw a handful of ones.

 

Which brings me back to VVs with Plasma Pistols. Which I find kinda sad. A premier assault unit being one of our better shooting units!!

[BluejayJunior]

Hellblasters have -4 AP on their weapons. That negates the save for most of their targets. And their weapons have better range than pistols. They are better for a gunline than VV. 

Also, deepstriking VV with dual plasma pistols may not get them in range of their target if it is being screened. Both inceptors and Hellblasters have better range (although only an extra 6" for the inceptors).

I don't think there is anything wrong with the VV with dual plasma pistols. Personally, I would use them in a different role (melee) and go with hellblasters for gunline plasma or inceptors for deepstriking. 

[Ornithologist]

I wish I had another 3 plasma inceptors to do a full squad, but the squad of three is plenty good for me. I traded my Hellblasters out for Devistators, and they seem to be doing about the same. both as a distraction target and as output.  

 

But I know you said no, but my favorite Big scary thing remover in the shooting phase are in no particular order:

 

Stormraven

Repulsor

 

I run the Hellblasters/Devistators and the Stormraven/Repulsor as giant distraction carnifexs and then what ever survives plus the deepstriking Plasma inceptors, focus fire down whatever is big and nasty. 

 

I used to run a Inferno pistol Suicide Assault Squad (3 pistols between the Sargent and the 2 in the squad) but the 9" deepstrike distance in the bubble made them less than useless.

[MeltaRange]

I don't understand the support for Hellblasters. For 5pts less you can get VV's with double plasma pistols, that are more mobile and can deep strike. The Hellblasters have more wounds of course, but surely the mobility makes ups for that? And 3 Inceptors have (on average) more shots, are almost as mobile as the VV, and are T5. For only 12pts more. 

 

What am I missing?

 

The problem I see with Inceptors is the random number of shots. Sure the average of three is 12 (6d3), but there will be turns when you throw a handful of ones.

 

Which brings me back to VVs with Plasma Pistols. Which I find kinda sad. A premier assault unit being one of our better shooting units!!

 

Pistols are only 12" range.  

[Explorer1]

I've no interest in running a gun line. If I did I would run ultramarines with Girlyman.

 

MeltaRange  - yeah - that 6" is pretty important. How to you get on with the random number of shots?

[Kallas]

MeltaRange  - yeah - that 6" is pretty important. How to you get on with the random number of shots?

 

As someone who's also been running Plasma Inceptors a lot recently, I can say that sometimes they do let you down with number of shots, but usually it's not a big deal. My Inceptors (both kinds) were champions at Dark Millenium (not that I was, however :P )

[Brother Crimson]

Hellblasters can form a great on foot slow-grinding gunline with either intercessors or aggressors as a front shield. It's also pretty easy to stack captain/lieutenant/FNP banner buff of all those guys. However I dont think they particularly excel in big scary things killers. This form more of a Jack of all Trades moving gunline.

 

Against Lords of War I have found that Assault squads with melta are pretty good, especially with some help.

 

Many times I have charged head-on with Captain Smash on a lord of war ending up being short of a couple of damage or worse, getting killed by the counterassault. 

 

I started to drop Behind 1-2 melta assault squad. The idea is that I have 4 melta shots (5 with the cpt as I run it) and the success of these attacks will determine if I charge with captain smash or not. If a couple of shots have landed, I charge and try to delete it. If not he stays put for a turn (I know, heresy...) and the opponent will have to either shoot or charge the assault marines first. This gives him the time to get an extra shot and move 12" for an ensured charge. 

[tychobi]

Bikes are pretty strong and come with a bunch of bolter shots as well. Good value in my opinion. Attack bike w. Mmelta works too. Storm raven has snuck into the conversation and I have to second the motion. So good. Once you start using it to block enemy charges is really shines. And enough firepower to make you blush.

[Morticon]

Wanna say the inceptors have been golden for me.  I havent played Hellblasters- not sure I will, but the Inceptors have been pure magic.  

[Explorer1]

 

MeltaRange  - yeah - that 6" is pretty important. How to you get on with the random number of shots?

 

As someone who's also been running Plasma Inceptors a lot recently, I can say that sometimes they do let you down with number of shots, but usually it's not a big deal. My Inceptors (both kinds) were champions at Dark Millenium (not that I was, however )

 

 

Thanks Kallas - I looked out for you at DM%, but didn't see you. Are you going to Clash of Alba?

[Kallas]

Thanks Kallas - I looked out for you at DM%, but didn't see you. Are you going to Clash of Alba?

I think I saw your army during the best painted nominations, but never connected it to you, sorry!

 

Probably not Clash of Alba, CGG is basically as far afield as I can manage at the moment, so the next one there will likely be my next tournament.

[Explorer1]

 

Thanks Kallas - I looked out for you at DM%, but didn't see you. Are you going to Clash of Alba?

I think I saw your army during the best painted nominations, but never connected it to you, sorry!

 

Probably not Clash of Alba, CGG is basically as far afield as I can manage at the moment, so the next one there will likely be my next tournament.

 

 

Yeah I was really pleased with the nomination. Clash of Alba is in lanark, which if you're based in Edinburgh is closer than Stirling.