Imperial Navy - Thunderbolt

[Explorer1]

I'm considering a Scions army, supported by airpower, and I've been looking at the various Forge World options. 

 

The Vulture looks pretty good, although the Vendetta is just terrible....! But the one that really caught my eye was the Thunderbolt - a T7 W15 airframe, with BS3, and 8 Autocannons and 2 Lazcannons shots, for a little over 200pts. 

 

On paper that seems pretty good - why have I never seen one on the table?

 

 

[Arganias]

I like it and I use it for my Elysians. There are two 'problems' I have encountered. It hits on 4s, despite being BS 3+ due to its heavy weapons. Also, equipping it with missiles of any kind will run between 80-90 additional points minimum, while the bombs can be good on elite infantry, the more effective and more generally effective load out are the missiles. It also has to always move and can only turn 90 degrees, so you will have to plan out its general path for the game or else it might have to fly off the table and become destroyed if you don't plan it right.

[Tirak]

The Thunderbolt was my "Go To" air support up until Chapter Approved hit. Originally they were powerful, flexible and tough and I ended up constructing my list around 2 Tbolts and 2 Punisher Vultures. Sadly, when Chapter Approved came along, the price of a Tbolt and Hellstrikes spiked from a reasonable 270 points, to an outright absurd 335 points. At that price point, it's simply impossible to justify the plane as you sink too many points into a single platform. For that price you could bring 2 Leman Russes with Lascannons, and frankly she just doesn't put out that kind of firepower. Tbolts were killed by Chapter Approved and so there is no reason to ever put them on the table anymore.

 

Anti Tank air support is mostly dead as even a Lightning with 4x Hellstrikes will run you 305. Vultures are too expensive and don't carry enough firepower to be used in an anti tank manner either. At the end of the day, the only Guard flyer left that's of any real use in a combat role is the Punisher Vulture, being only 10 points more expensive than the Leman Russ Punisher and having greater flexability.

[Explorer1]

The Thunderbolt was my "Go To" air support up until Chapter Approved hit. Originally they were powerful, flexible and tough and I ended up constructing my list around 2 Tbolts and 2 Punisher Vultures. Sadly, when Chapter Approved came along, the price of a Tbolt and Hellstrikes spiked from a reasonable 270 points, to an outright absurd 335 points. At that price point, it's simply impossible to justify the plane as you sink too many points into a single platform. For that price you could bring 2 Leman Russes with Lascannons, and frankly she just doesn't put out that kind of firepower. Tbolts were killed by Chapter Approved and so there is no reason to ever put them on the table anymore.

 

Anti Tank air support is mostly dead as even a Lightning with 4x Hellstrikes will run you 305. Vultures are too expensive and don't carry enough firepower to be used in an anti tank manner either. At the end of the day, the only Guard flyer left that's of any real use in a combat role is the Punisher Vulture, being only 10 points more expensive than the Leman Russ Punisher and having greater flexability.

 

But, if you don't take the missiles, it's 215pts - which isn't bad. 

[Arganias]

I tend to put bombs on mine and drop them on something with invuls. I like dropping them on T-sons because they are difficult to bring down with small arms and even killing 1 very nearly makes up for the cost of the bombs.

[Tirak]

 

But, if you don't take the missiles, it's 215pts - which isn't bad. 

 

 

Or you could spend 155 points on a Leman Russ that fires 2d6 S8 AP-2 D3 damage shots at something. Or 182 for a 5 Lascannon Shot Annihilator. If you're taking the Tbolt without weapon systems, then you need to ask yourself why you're taking it at all.

[Explorer1]

 

But, if you don't take the missiles, it's 215pts - which isn't bad.

 

 

Or you could spend 155 points on a Leman Russ that fires 2d6 S8 AP-2 D3 damage shots at something. Or 182 for a 5 Lascannon Shot Annihilator. If you're taking the Tbolt without weapon systems, then you need to ask yourself why you're taking it at all.

Fair point. I guess I’m looking at the Tbolt because I want to build a pure(ish) Scions army, with only Imperial Navy in support.

[Halfpint100]

Thunderbolt still has the extra mobility and negatives to hit. also has the same effectiveness at all times, where russes need to be stationary or move half. Also harder to tie up a thunderbolt in CC than a russ.

 

Oh and they look gorgeous, we are guard, we have many points spare, we can go for rule of cool and still be strong.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Are you a tournament player? If not, rule of cool is fine. If so, you'll want to optimize your army.

 

When I started Guard, I played Stormies, and only stormies. Now I have branched out into the wide world of guard, and I couldn't be happier. There is an inherent danger to running a pure list. You need some kind of support or you're going to suffer. 

 

Guard Flyers provide some support, RP Valks and Punisher Vultures provide good, inexpensive airborne crowd control. The Thunderbolt provides good anti-tank. Problem is that Thunderbolts can't hover, an risk flying on, doing nothing of value, and flying off to be destroyed, now that ongoing reserves are no longer a thing.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Ulrik_Ironfist

[Tirak]

Flying off the table isn't a concern for even a semi competent player, especially if he's only fielding one. My list is running 4 flyers right now and I've never had to suicide a flyer like that. The Tbolt runs at a 48"/72" range, so positioning isn't hard to maintain so long as you're thinking at the very least one move ahead.

 

The problem you're going to run into running Stormies with expensive Tbolts, is you're going to have damn little on the field, and Boots on the Ground means that the moment your ground forces are dead, you lose. My opponents have had the best luck simply ignoring my flyers unless there was nothing else to shoot, and trying to go for a table. A T3 army with a 4+ save doesn't survive against much, and if you're Scions only then that tells me you've got only Taurox Prime's to be your anchor, and speaking from experience that's not enough to hold a line. If you're just going to make something to look cool, then tactics and optimization don't matter, but if you want to play a competitive list, you're going to need a Guard backbone to back up those flyers, and the Tbolt no longer gives enough bang for buck.

 

General advice I have though for anyone fielding flyers is, depending on your club/tourney rules, field them as Elysians, that way you can keep them protected in reserve and deepstrike them on your turn.

[Explorer1]

Thanks guys

 

Yes I am a Tourney player, and I like to win ..... but I don't do net lists, and I like to win with what I want to play. Winning with a cool army is more important than winning lots with a boring army, or an army that doesn't make sense, or that I just don't want to play. So I'm quite happy "limiting" myself, but I want to optimise within those limitations - if that makes sense?