Fate of Lion Sword Before Johnson's disappearance (spoilers)

[Kasper_Hawser]

Was reading the Leman Russ Primarch novel and then was looking at the cover of Ruinstorm and then looking at Cypher and suddenly I got very confused.

 

why am I confused?

 

Because it looks like after the Heresy ended, the Lion Sword still seems to be intact. Leman Russ in a semi-suicidal way allowed himself to be stabbed by Lion in a semi-murderous way, when they were in the palace after the siege of Terra. 

 

 

Yet according to the events of Angels of Caliban which was set during Imperium Secundus, the sword was supposedly broken by Guilliman. 

 

Even in Ruinstorm, the cover showed Johnson wielding what looked like a massive chainsword.

 

 

And of course, it's almost certain (ALMOST) that the sword carried by Cypher in 40K is the Lion sword which doesn't appear broken. Then again, it is in a massive sheath.

 

So to clarify my confusion because i haven't read Ruinstorm, was the Lion Sword repaired at anytime in between?

[james71989]

I thought the new cypher model is wielding part of the sword not the whole thing, meaning it is still broken

[Kizzdougs]

Yeah, it was always my understanding that Cypher was carrying the broken Lion Sword. I'm not sure what they're going to do about Leman Russ and the Lion, but it could just be retconned or Russ could be stabbed with the broken sword . Come to think of it, where does that actually come from (the Lion stabbing Russ after the Siege of Terra)? I've seen people mention it before, but I've never actually read it myself.

[Tarvek Val]

This is the Games Workshop descriptions associated with Cypher's model:

 

"Cypher - Lord of the Fallen - bedecked in archaic, makeshift gear appropriate to his renegade nature, his armour is retrofitted with parts from a variety of patterns - each part telling a story. He's armed with a modified plasma pistol, and carries a particularly interesting sword on his back..."

 

This sword, as Kasper_Hawser points out, appears to be unbroken in the model.

 

I too have not read ​Ruinstorm, but based off of GW's portrayal of Cypher's model, the sword appears to be intact. I too would love to know if the sword was reported as being repaired at some point.

 

Kizzdougs: I believe that happened in the Primarchs novel Leman Russ: The Great Wolf.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 Come to think of it, where does that actually come from (the Lion stabbing Russ after the Siege of Terra)? I've seen people mention it before, but I've never actually read it myself.

 

This was actually one of the more pleasant surprise in the Leman Russ novel.

 

As I understand it, one of the original fluffs (3rd ed? Someone correct me please) was that the Space Wolves and Dark Angels were racing to get to Terra, and that Russ supposedly stopped along the way to help several loyalist worlds in peril and made the Dark Angels do the same, therefore delaying their arrival until it was too late. Afterwards, Lion confronted Russ in anger and bitterness and wanted a duel to the death. Russ instead of fighting, bared his hearts to the Lion instead, which the Lion nearly stabbed, only to turn the killing blow at the last minute.

 

Afterwards supposedly the Lion and Russ became besties. Sorry, that's what I recall reading in either a White dwarf or old Index Astartes article. 

 

this of course is considered rather noble bright by 40K standards, so for a long time, nobody gave thought about this old story, since the HH novels established in not so many words that Russ was kinda not nice.

 

But long story cut short, this story was verified in spirit if not in detail during the last chapter of the Leman Russ novel. These are the snippets which the Lion in his fury said.

 

 

Lion: ..... YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN FASTER! (implying that they didn't get to Terra quick enough. Whether caused by Russ is debatable but nearly right afterwards, he said...

 

Lion: .... I am just as guilty. so let us end this. the guilty ending the guilty (which implies whatever the delay was, the Lion was also delayed, possibly by following whatever Russ was doing at the time.)

 

Russ as mentioned, literally bared his chest to the Lion, being semi-suicidal at that point but also utterly weary of fighting another stupid and avoidable fight like the one on Dulan. The Lion stabbed. Russ didn't die.

 

In the last chapter, ...

 

Russ: He knew he wouldn't kill me...... it cleared the bad blood between us. We could speak again after that. Hurt like Hel though. Implication: the two primarchs could work together again without the usual nonsense apart from the legion duelling tradition that continued even after the two were tired of it.

 

And in the end, it was noted that Russ, who was in mourning attire at the time, had just received word of the Lion's supposed death. No way would someone openly mourn another if they did not truly love them. Whether Lion reciprocated is irrelevant.

 

 

Ah, Black Library at one of its finest. Confirming yet not confirming one of the few noble bright aspects of the Heresy.

 

But back to topic, did someone repair the Lion Sword after Guilliman broke it and before the Siege? Because the sword was definitely intact when it nearly stabbed Russ' two hearts.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Kasper_Hawser

[b1soul]

Lions and Wolves cannot mate

[Bryan Blaire]

What is the name given for the sword that the Lion used to stab Russ? The "Lion Sword" is a moniker that could be given to any blade the Lion used, honestly, and the one Cypher carries could be the one that Guilliman broke or one that stabbed Russ, or any other sword looted at one time from the Primarch's stash and simply had the import of the weapon misunderstood over the centuries.

 

The "Lion Sword" is stupidly generic and has been since 2nd Edition (I believe) when they introduced the idea, but GW/BL could use that to their advantage - perhaps it was a blade specifically made for the Lion by the Emperor himself or something.

[Kasper_Hawser]

What is the name given for the sword that the Lion used to stab Russ? The "Lion Sword" is a moniker that could be given to any blade the Lion used, honestly, and the one Cypher carries could be the one that Guilliman broke or one that stabbed Russ, or any other sword looted at one time from the Primarch's stash and simply had the import of the weapon misunderstood over the centuries.

 

The "Lion Sword" is stupidly generic and has been since 2nd Edition (I believe) when they introduced the idea, but GW/BL could use that to their advantage - perhaps it was a blade specifically made for the Lion by the Emperor himself or something.

 

I can see GW trolling us then. Whether it is THE Lion Sword or for that matter the one supposedly carried by Cypher which Guilliman recognizes but refuses to reveal why, ........

 

..... ARGH GW!!!! or is it BLACK LIBRARY! or is it GAV THORPE!!!

 

OK, ignoring Cypher for a moment, as far as Russ was concerned it was the same blade that was used during the brawl on Dulan which seemed to be particularly ornate and was also called the Lion's blade in that novel I think. And in general, most of the Primarchs had one favorite set of weapons though not all translated from fluff to crunch. 

 

The ones we know off and appears in crunch:

 

Leman Russ - We all knew he had a frostblade of some sort, but the books are not very clear on whether it is simply a fancy chainsword with kraken teeth, or a power sword as commonly depicted in art. the description in the novel is like a chainsword but in the art, looks like a power sword. They also added an axe for some reason.

 

Dorn - Enough said, Chainsword and Bolter.

 

Sanguinus - Super Sanguine sword still there, but in Ruinstorm there is now the spear of Telos which later appeared in the Blood Angel novels.

 

Horus - Enough said, Claw and Maul.

 

Angron - also enough said, gore child and gore something else.

 

For the Lion, in fluff we actually have little variation of his weapon choice, so far it is the same sword through and through.

 

so sorry to sound like a broken record, was the sword repaired between Imperium Secundus and post Siege of Terra?  

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Slips

[Kizzdougs]

This is what Cypher's data slate says on the weapon (not sure if it's been contradicted by 8th ed fluff):

 

“One of the characteristics that defines the mysterious Cypher is the sword that he carries. On every world where he has been sighted, Cypher has always bore a sword, yet no matter how pressed he has been in combat, he has never yet drawn the blade forth, either to attack or even in his own defence. Even on the rare occasions when both pistols were struck from his hands, the robed figure did not draw his blade. Some of the Unforgiven have speculated that the blade is none other than the famed Lion Sword – the blade of their Primarch that was lost when the Lion disappeared. Others say it is a new weapon made of the same meteor that produced the metal for the Heavenfall Blades borne by the leaders of the Dark Angels today. There are those within the Inner Circle that speak of the ebon Sword of Luther, the treacherous sword that some believe slew Lion El’Jonson before he vanished into the Warp storm. They whisper that it is Cypher’s goal to reach Terra, to finally draw forth that sword for the first and last time, using the weapon to slay the Emperor, striking him down from his Golden Throne. Some few have even suggested that Cypher will kneel before the Emperor, offering him the blessed blade and by this deed seeking final redemption for the Unforgiven. In the end, all that is known for certain is that the sheathed weapon is yet another mystery.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Dataslate: Cypher.” iBooks. 

 

So, I'm not sure what to think. It's impossible to tell if the sword is broken or not, given that it is in a scabbard. 

[Corswain]

I’m confused, I haven’t read it but doesn’t the Leman Russ novel take place on Dulan during the Crusade? The famous Lion and the Wolf story?

 

That’s how it’s pitched by Black Library.

 

That would mean it happened before the events in Angels of Caliban.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

This is what Cypher's data slate says on the weapon (not sure if it's been contradicted by 8th ed fluff):

 

“One of the characteristics that defines the mysterious Cypher is the sword that he carries. On every world where he has been sighted, Cypher has always bore a sword, yet no matter how pressed he has been in combat, he has never yet drawn the blade forth, either to attack or even in his own defence. Even on the rare occasions when both pistols were struck from his hands, the robed figure did not draw his blade. Some of the Unforgiven have speculated that the blade is none other than the famed Lion Sword – the blade of their Primarch that was lost when the Lion disappeared. Others say it is a new weapon made of the same meteor that produced the metal for the Heavenfall Blades borne by the leaders of the Dark Angels today. There are those within the Inner Circle that speak of the ebon Sword of Luther, the treacherous sword that some believe slew Lion El’Jonson before he vanished into the Warp storm. They whisper that it is Cypher’s goal to reach Terra, to finally draw forth that sword for the first and last time, using the weapon to slay the Emperor, striking him down from his Golden Throne. Some few have even suggested that Cypher will kneel before the Emperor, offering him the blessed blade and by this deed seeking final redemption for the Unforgiven. In the end, all that is known for certain is that the sheathed weapon is yet another mystery.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Dataslate: Cypher.” iBooks. 

 

So, I'm not sure what to think. It's impossible to tell if the sword is broken or not, given that it is in a scabbard. 

 

 

Yep, reminds me of Aragorn who actually carried the Shards of Narsil (which was just two pieces rather than multiple shards like the movie) in a sheath.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I’m confused, I haven’t read it but doesn’t the Leman Russ novel take place on Dulan during the Crusade? The famous Lion and the Wolf story?

 

That’s how it’s pitched by Black Library.

 

That would mean it happened before the events in Angels of Caliban.

 

The main story is about Dulan which is obviously before Angels of Caliban. But as I said, my confusion is that during Angels of Caliban, the Lion Sword was broken. Yet after the heresy, which is AFTER Angels of Caliban, Lion used the same blade which he fought at Dulan which we can surmise is the Lion's blade, and nearly killed Russ in anger. No way was it described as broken. It was enough to nearly take out both of Russ hearts.

 

Quite a nice story actually even from a Dark Angel perspective. the story was told by Russ himself to a Blood claw (neophyte) and so is mainly a flashback novel.

[Corswain]

Gotta put that down to poor editing then. Someone goofed.

[rendingon1+]

I think Chris Wraight just retconned Thorpe. I'm totally fine with that.

<long rant how Thorpe ruined DA and how much I loathe his stuff>

 

The Lion had his sword drawn, and its grey steel glinted in the cold. It was the same one that Russ had wrenched from his grasp in the Tyrant's throne-room, all those years ago. It was said that he had never let a weapon slip from his fingers since.

 

This or Lion Sword was reforged if we choose to not ignore IS idiocy.

[Corswain]

I think Chris Wraight just retconned Thorpe. I'm totally fine with that.

<long rant how Thorpe ruined DA and how much I loathe his stuff>

 

 

The Lion had his sword drawn, and its grey steel glinted in the cold. It was the same one that Russ had wrenched from his grasp in the Tyrant's throne-room, all those years ago. It was said that he had never let a weapon slip from his fingers since.

Well that’s pretty concrete. I still figure it’s a mistake rather than a deliberate retcon but I guess we’ll find out the next time DA come up in the Heresy.

[TheRealMcCagh]

It wasn't mentioned as being repaired in Ruinstorm, to answer your question. But maybe it happens after Ruinstorm but before they get to Terra. Though that quote has another error since Guilliman snatched it from the Lion, but I guess Russ wouldn't have known about that whole thing. Guilliman may have also pulled it from the Lion's sheathe, and not from his grasp...

[Kasper_Hawser]

Still have yet to pick up Ruinstorm just to see if David Annandale's writing is palateable to me. Writing one primarch is difficult enough without trying to go for three.

 

@ therealmcgagh - I guess anything could happen between Angels of Caliban to the post-siege of terra meeting where Lion stabbed Russ. Thanks for answering my question, I guess that satisfies my discussion needs for this topic without deviating to other stuff.

 

Incidentally, I loved Lion's portrayal in Leman Russ. Russ personal opinions of Lion aside, the character was very well done without either simplifying or knocking down his prior fluff.