Grey Knights competitive hobby blog - first video

[TheGoldenThrone]

I haven't played in any ITC events, so I am far from knowledgeable on the topic. I know only a little, which I can add for context. I will leave it to more experienced tournament goers to provide more detail, if needed.

 

ITC (Independent Tournament Circuit) missions are different than those in the GW rule book and CA, and they are scored using a combination of 1) taking and holding objectives; and 2) eliminating units (resulting in kill points).

 

So if I understand InquisitorBlack's video correctly, he is using Termies as objective takers/holders (preferably in cover to maximize the 2+ save), because they are a bit more resilient than typical troops. The extra wound per model and slightly better save makes it slightly more difficult to eliminate the whole unit, thus generating him more VP from holding objectives, while also making the kill points more difficult for his opponent to generate. 

[Trevak Dal]

I didn't think you could take a transport unless something rode inside it?

[Panzer]

Sure you can. You can take as many Dedicated Transport units as you have other units in your army. Other than that there is no further requirement.

You could even take a Razorback for each Predator in your list without having even a single infantry unit (if you could take Predators that is).

[Matt_149]

Here are some itc rules that are for a tournament I'm playing in november;

 

Primary Mission: End of Player Turn Scoring

Each player scores points at the end of their player turn.

1. Do you hold one or more objectives?

1 point

Was an enemy unit destroyed during your player turn?

1.1 point

Primary Mission: End of Battle Round Scoring

Each Player also scores points at the end of each Battle Round.

1. Do you hold more objectives than your opponent?

2.1 point

3. Were more of your opponent’s units destroyed this battle round than your

own?

1.1 point

Secondary Missions:

Each player may score up to 4pts for each of the following Secondary Missions, for a

total of 12 between the three they’ve chosen. These points can be scored at any time

unless otherwise specified in the description.

 

Then there a load of secondaries you can choose 3 of before the game and can choose before each game.

[Capt. Mytre]

Thanks so much for posting that Waking Dreamer. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

 

I have a 2000 point event coming up this weekend (only a 3 game RTT) but I've decided to go with my GK + Sisters double battalion list.

 

For those interested, the list is:

 

DKGM with psilencer, psycannon, sword

DKGM with psilencer, psycannon, sword

 

3x5 termies (4 falchions, 1 hammer)

ancient with falchion, cuirass of sacrifice (WARLORD with first to the fray)

 

 

Celestine

Canoness with maul and stormbolter

 

2x5 sisters with bolters

5 sisters with 3 stormbolters

Rhino with 2 stormbolters and a hunter killer missile

Repressor with 2 stormbolters and heavy flamer

 

 

 

The idea is that that I deploy both DKGMs and gate one forward on turn one with the 2++. The second provides redundancy and can also 'take up the mantle' of the 2++ once the first aggressive one dies.

 

Two units of terminators will come down turn 2 with the ancient. The other squad will deploy to cast gate on the DKGM. These can then gate themselves forward on turn 2. All the terminators need to deploy very dynamically every game. Some games you will want to be hyper-aggressive. Other games they will take up defensive positions in cover.

 

Celestine and the repressor (with canoness and the squad with the stormbolters) will be very aggressive, while the rhino and other 2 sister units will hold back objectives in most games. I am so excited for my 9 point sisters in cover with a 2+

 

 

 

 

It seem you have very little in the way of anti-armour outside of melee. How do you intend to kill things like Knights, especially with screens? Are you just gonna play defensively against those kind of armies and go for points? Castellans are fairly common, and a 2++ is useless against their sheildbreakers.

 

Personally, I think the best thing GK have atm is that no one plays them, so countering them or even understanding how they play isn't common knowledge, and can be leveraged. Gate out of combat, 2++ saves, Vortex mechanics etc.

[newdigitalGK]

 

Thanks so much for posting that Waking Dreamer. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

 

I have a 2000 point event coming up this weekend (only a 3 game RTT) but I've decided to go with my GK + Sisters double battalion list.

 

For those interested, the list is:

 

DKGM with psilencer, psycannon, sword

DKGM with psilencer, psycannon, sword

 

3x5 termies (4 falchions, 1 hammer)

ancient with falchion, cuirass of sacrifice (WARLORD with first to the fray)

 

 

Celestine

Canoness with maul and stormbolter

 

2x5 sisters with bolters

5 sisters with 3 stormbolters

Rhino with 2 stormbolters and a hunter killer missile

Repressor with 2 stormbolters and heavy flamer

 

 

 

The idea is that that I deploy both DKGMs and gate one forward on turn one with the 2++. The second provides redundancy and can also 'take up the mantle' of the 2++ once the first aggressive one dies.

 

Two units of terminators will come down turn 2 with the ancient. The other squad will deploy to cast gate on the DKGM. These can then gate themselves forward on turn 2. All the terminators need to deploy very dynamically every game. Some games you will want to be hyper-aggressive. Other games they will take up defensive positions in cover.

 

Celestine and the repressor (with canoness and the squad with the stormbolters) will be very aggressive, while the rhino and other 2 sister units will hold back objectives in most games. I am so excited for my 9 point sisters in cover with a 2+

 

 

 

 

It seem you have very little in the way of anti-armour outside of melee. How do you intend to kill things like Knights, especially with screens? Are you just gonna play defensively against those kind of armies and go for points? Castellans are fairly common, and a 2++ is useless against their sheildbreakers.

 

Personally, I think the best thing GK have atm is that no one plays them, so countering them or even understanding how they play isn't common knowledge, and can be leveraged. Gate out of combat, 2++ saves, Vortex mechanics etc.

 

That is generally accepted as the biggest hurdle for GK's is that as a mono faction GK's do not have a reliable way of dealing with armor/high toughness units outside of Melee. 

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

 

 

It seem you have very little in the way of anti-armour outside of melee. How do you intend to kill things like Knights, especially with screens? Are you just gonna play defensively against those kind of armies and go for points? Castellans are fairly common, and a 2++ is useless against their shieldbreakers.

 

Personally, I think the best thing GK have atm is that no one plays them, so countering them or even understanding how they play isn't common knowledge, and can be leveraged. Gate out of combat, 2++ saves, Vortex mechanics etc.

 

That is generally accepted as the biggest hurdle for GK's is that as a mono faction GK's do not have a reliable way of dealing with armor/high toughness units outside of Melee. 

 

 

I understand that, but there are options via TL Las on Razors etc. He has almost none that I'm aware of, thus the question. Consider also that he's allying in a sisters detachment, there are anti-tank options there or in other Imperium detachments, yet they aren't present. I want to understand his thinking on the matter.

[Matt_149]

I am the wondering the same. I have an ITC tournie next month and am running gmndk, librarian and 25 strike marines, razorback. Then allied in knights (2 X armigers and a gallant). Without them I have no idea how I would deal with anything over toughness 4. Playing against some of the lists that I know will be there (eldar hemlocks, imperial soup, heavy tanks, pox walker/cultist lists) I will be happy to make top 30! (It's a 30 player tournament lol).

[InquisitorBlack]

I haven't played in any ITC events, so I am far from knowledgeable on the topic. I know only a little, which I can add for context. I will leave it to more experienced tournament goers to provide more detail, if needed.

 

ITC (Independent Tournament Circuit) missions are different than those in the GW rule book and CA, and they are scored using a combination of 1) taking and holding objectives; and 2) eliminating units (resulting in kill points).

 

So if I understand InquisitorBlack's video correctly, he is using Termies as objective takers/holders (preferably in cover to maximize the 2+ save), because they are a bit more resilient than typical troops. The extra wound per model and slightly better save makes it slightly more difficult to eliminate the whole unit, thus generating him more VP from holding objectives, while also making the kill points more difficult for his opponent to generate. 

 

That's exactly it TGT, the termies are significantly harder to kill than a unit of strikes which really help in ITC scoring.

 

 

Thanks so much for posting that Waking Dreamer. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

 

I have a 2000 point event coming up this weekend (only a 3 game RTT) but I've decided to go with my GK + Sisters double battalion list.

 

For those interested, the list is:

 

DKGM with psilencer, psycannon, sword

DKGM with psilencer, psycannon, sword

 

3x5 termies (4 falchions, 1 hammer)

ancient with falchion, cuirass of sacrifice (WARLORD with first to the fray)

 

 

Celestine

Canoness with maul and stormbolter

 

2x5 sisters with bolters

5 sisters with 3 stormbolters

Rhino with 2 stormbolters and a hunter killer missile

Repressor with 2 stormbolters and heavy flamer

 

 

 

The idea is that that I deploy both DKGMs and gate one forward on turn one with the 2++. The second provides redundancy and can also 'take up the mantle' of the 2++ once the first aggressive one dies.

 

Two units of terminators will come down turn 2 with the ancient. The other squad will deploy to cast gate on the DKGM. These can then gate themselves forward on turn 2. All the terminators need to deploy very dynamically every game. Some games you will want to be hyper-aggressive. Other games they will take up defensive positions in cover.

 

Celestine and the repressor (with canoness and the squad with the stormbolters) will be very aggressive, while the rhino and other 2 sister units will hold back objectives in most games. I am so excited for my 9 point sisters in cover with a 2+

 

 

 

 

It seem you have very little in the way of anti-armour outside of melee. How do you intend to kill things like Knights, especially with screens? Are you just gonna play defensively against those kind of armies and go for points? Castellans are fairly common, and a 2++ is useless against their sheildbreakers.

 

Personally, I think the best thing GK have atm is that no one plays them, so countering them or even understanding how they play isn't common knowledge, and can be leveraged. Gate out of combat, 2++ saves, Vortex mechanics etc.

 

Anti-armour is unfortunately a big issue for GK. However, I was able to take down a mech guard list with a Baneblade and about 8-9 other tank chassis.

 

GK's do their best damage against armour in combat, which means trying to get the most out DKGM's combat ability as well as other characters with lots of attacks and high damage weapons. Hammerhand can help a lot. It's also worth noting that the psychic onslaught stratagem is a great way to get your DKGM's pulling their weight more in shooting against heavy armour. 

 

The best advice against heavy mech is to focus fire. Plan your turns in advance and concentrate on taking down sections of the battlefield 'one at a time'. If you can kill a knight in 2 turns of concentrated attacks, and then another one by turn 4 - that is a game you might win. If you spread your damage at all you'll get quickly overwhelmed as your army isn't killing anything while your opponent is methodically tabling you.

 

 

 

[SyNidus]

Gotta say i'm inspired and impressed. I might try something similar myself.

[InquisitorBlack]

Hey guys, here is my analysis of the new points adjustments. Looking forward to some feedback! :) 

[Bjarni St.]

I think you're basically on point. The army (obviously) got better but the internal balance hasn't shifted much, aside from Terminator heavy weapons not being quite as prohibitively expensive. The non-Heavy Psycannons are still just D1 but something like that Paladin 'spam' list could now be worth rolling up with to see how it does.

[TheGoldenThrone]

Great video. I am happy to hear even small amounts of optimism -- not of impacting the meta, of course, but just having fun again. Maybe.

 

I might even step back to Grey Knights to try similar lists for a bit, to see if they are more fun to play. Still not many options though.

 

I am so torqued at how the Librarian, Terminators, and Purifiers (including Crowe) came out of CA18 and the 8e FAQs. Seriously, an AM Primaris Psyker can cast a full Smite, but our Librarian can't manage it? How could the Emperor allow this!?

[Waking Dreamer]

Excellent video!

 

You listed BroCap Stern as a potential HQ, but would that be for only Daemon heavy lists? While he is cheaper than the regular BroCap, his smite is only 6", 12" after his own buff. A regular BroCap will have 24" smite and isn't locked into having just a NF Sword either. So yea, is the points saved worth it when fighting non-Daemon heavy armies?

[kronapaints]

Excellent video!

 

You listed BroCap Stern as a potential HQ, but would that be for only Daemon heavy lists? While he is cheaper than the regular BroCap, his smite is only 6", 12" after his own buff. A regular BroCap will have 24" smite and isn't locked into having just a NF Sword either. So yea, is the points saved worth it when fighting non-Daemon heavy armies?

 

I was thinking the same thing, Stern does seem specific to daemon-only lists.

 

I'm also interested in the hive-mind's thinking re: GMNDK ranged weapons, is the heavy incinerator now worth it over the Gatling psilencer or heavy psycannon? Just for the points and the auto-hitting for overwatch?

[Waking Dreamer]

 

I'm also interested in the hive-mind's thinking re: GMNDK ranged weapons, is the heavy incinerator now worth it over the Gatling psilencer or heavy psycannon? Just for the points and the auto-hitting for overwatch?

 

 

Well, if I recall some posters here have had great use from the H.Incinerator, being able to take down 2 jetbikes just from overwatch trying to lockdown their GMNDK. The 40 point price tag was just too much for regular play though. Now that it's the cheapest NDK ranged weapon, personally I think it's a solid option. Especially if you have multiple GMNDKs you can have one with the Incinerator, and keep the other with the Gat.Psilencer and H.Psycannon, to make use of the Psychic Onslaught Stratagem. 

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

I'm also interested in the hive-mind's thinking re: GMNDK ranged weapons, is the heavy incinerator now worth it over the Gatling psilencer or heavy psycannon? Just for the points and the auto-hitting for overwatch?

 

 

Well, if I recall some posters here have had great use from the H.Incinerator, being able to take down 2 jetbikes just from overwatch trying to lockdown their GMNDK. The 40 point price tag was just too much for regular play though. Now that it's the cheapest NDK ranged weapon, personally I think it's a solid option. Especially if you have multiple GMNDKs you can have one with the Incinerator, and keep the other with the Gat.Psilencer and H.Psycannon, to make use of the Psychic Onslaught Stratagem. 

 

 

While still probably not efficient, it makes regular NDK's a bit better. They are cheaper overall and it ignore's their BS4+ that they'd have with other weapons. Shame you can't have two heavy incinerators lol.

[InquisitorBlack]

I think you're basically on point. The army (obviously) got better but the internal balance hasn't shifted much, aside from Terminator heavy weapons not being quite as prohibitively expensive. The non-Heavy Psycannons are still just D1 but something like that Paladin 'spam' list could now be worth rolling up with to see how it does.

Yeah sorry about the D1 oversight, I was using my heavy psycannons too much! Come to think of it though, making psycannons d2 would really help them! :P

 

 

Excellent video!

 

You listed BroCap Stern as a potential HQ, but would that be for only Daemon heavy lists? While he is cheaper than the regular BroCap, his smite is only 6", 12" after his own buff. A regular BroCap will have 24" smite and isn't locked into having just a NF Sword either. So yea, is the points saved worth it when fighting non-Daemon heavy armies?

I can certainly understand why you might want a regular BroCap, the main reason I like Stern is because he can cast 2 psychic powers (only knows one, so the second is always smite). 

 

However, always being able to cast smite equates to more (free) damage than a psilencer or psycannon will often do.  

 

Being better against Daemons is very relevant because they are one of GK's weakest matchups. Having a bit of extra power here is certainly worth it.

 

 

Excellent video!

 

You listed BroCap Stern as a potential HQ, but would that be for only Daemon heavy lists? While he is cheaper than the regular BroCap, his smite is only 6", 12" after his own buff. A regular BroCap will have 24" smite and isn't locked into having just a NF Sword either. So yea, is the points saved worth it when fighting non-Daemon heavy armies?

 

I was thinking the same thing, Stern does seem specific to daemon-only lists.

 

I'm also interested in the hive-mind's thinking re: GMNDK ranged weapons, is the heavy incinerator now worth it over the Gatling psilencer or heavy psycannon? Just for the points and the auto-hitting for overwatch?

 

I originally (in the video) swayed towards the incinerator but on further thought I really do feel the psilencer is better.  The extra range and shots really make it more versatile, especially on a GM that will be hitting on 3s and rerolling 1s. 

 

Even on overwatch you will still average a couple of hits which isn't that much less than what you'll get on the incinerator (albeit at a better profile).