What Exactly is Wrong with Angels of Caliban?

[ShadowCore67]

Hello all,

 

Sorry to bring up what seems to be a sore topic but I often see a lot of hate or disappointment in the Angels of Caliban novel (and all the other heresy DA novels). Now I won't say that they're amazing works of literature but I don't see anything extremely wrong with them. Granted this is all subjective but I'm interested in what exactly makes some of you out there not enjoy them.

[Ashen Sabre]

I personally found myself enjoying all three, so I'll have to second you there. From what I have observed, many dislike Gav Thorpe's portrayals of the Dark Angels and their characters.

[Brother Lunkhead]

I'll take a shot at this. I found the first novel, 'Descent of Angels' off putting. I suppose I had higher and different expectations after reading the first four novels in the HH series. I was expecting something along the lines of what lead to the schism within the DA's. What I got was an origin story set in the dark realm of Camelot. It read too  much like a tale of King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table. Although well written it was not what I was looking for, so I was disappointed. The second novel was better, but by then I was still a bit tainted by the first one. I'm just starting 'Angels of Caliban' so I can't comment on it yet.

 

As far as the DA hate goes, I think this predates the HH series. I can only speak for myself when I say that I find the dark and secretive agendas of the DA off putting, and their obsession with the Unforgiven make them unreliable allies at times.

 

Having said that, let me add that I DO NOT hate the DA's, nor do I doubt their loyalty to the Emperor. The above mentioned points simply make them one of my least favorite Legions/Chapters. I am however glad that they are there, for they add to the richness of the 40K lore. As far as Gav Thorpe goes, some of his work I do not like. However his DA novels on the whole are not in that category for me. I think his take on the DA's is spot on, and I can't think of any other BL author I'd rather see writing about them.

 

Anyway, for what it's worth, that's my opinion and I stickin' to it 

[m0nolith]

Im a BA Player.

Iv never been a DA player or a Gav Thorpe fan, nor did I like the first two DA books.

 

But after having gone through 47 Horus Heresy novels (all except for Burden of Loyalty and Wolfsbane), I can undoubtedly say that Angels of Caliban is among my top five HH novels, period!

 

The book was fantastic, and if you think the book is bad, I'm sorry but you're just blatantly wrong.

Edited March 6, 2018 by m0nolith

[Tarvek Val]

I very much enjoyed Angels of Caliban, I thought it was one of the better Heresy books in the latter end of the series. The dialogue between the primarchs and the somewhat strained relationship amongst the rulers of Imperium Secundus was very well-explored, in my humble opinion, and the book was certainly well-written.

 

I concede with Brother Lunkhead in that Descent of Angels really wasn't what i was expecting going in. It was nice earning about the backstory of the DA, and I was fascinated by the hunting of the Great Beasts of Caliban, but I found the book a bit too slow-paced and meandering for my tastes. 

 

I don't really remember all that much about Fallen Angels, so I don't have much to comment about it...

[sneakybamsen]

Very much a fan of the whole DA fluff while not a huge fan of Descent of Angels or Fallen Angels, I have yet to read Angels of Caliban (working my way through Vengeful Spirit at the moment). What's a shame about the first two? To be honest there are a lot of things from Fallen Angels that I do not remember, but the part where the Lion takes of the head of Nemiel is really sweet. Descent of Angels stands out because it is so far from what a lot of DA fans want it to be, I think. The whole feudal society, hunting for the great beasts, there is a lot of stuff that just feels like it should have happened millennia earlier, not in the build up to the galaxy's greatest conflict.

[Brother Sergeant Luther]

I don't think the Lion took the head of Nemiel off in Fallen angels, I believe that happened in the "The Lion" short story.

 

As for the state of the Horus Heresy DA fluff, I have personally enjoyed the stuff we have learnt in all the DA novels, each one providing more insight into the Legions workings. That being said I found Decent of Angels jarring as it went from the action to the heresy back to cover the beginning of the DA tale. As a stand alone novel it would have been ok but as part of the series it seemed off.

 

Angels of Caliban is by far one of my favourite books in the series, just for the depiction of the Dreadwing alone. And it is clear to see the guiding hand of Alan Bligh on the lore of the legion covered in that book.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I don't think Angels of Caliban is the worse DA novel. If anything it's probably the best done by that author.  What chaffs people is usually the Unforgiven trilogy or the first and second HH Da books.

[shandwen]

Perhaps the issue with the hatred to recent DA books has more to do with personal concepts now being shown as wrong. So much of the DA fluff was left secret before that people took the tinyist snippets and blew them out of proportion so when we finally started to hear what actually happened it runs against what many held to before.

Me personally not having cared about the 1st legion before these books I absolutely enjoyed them and hold them in high regard, especially when compared to early HH books such as False Gods...

[Grand Master Raziel]

I took issue with all the Calibanite Dark Angels being sent back to Caliban after one teeny little skirmish against daemons, and that being their only engagement since leaving Caliban.  That was just plain stupid.

 

Also, the Imperium of 40K is supposed to be a regressed, dark version of the golden age of the Great Crusade.  Instead, it was portrayed as being exactly like 40K.

 

Also also, the Lion is portrayed as being paranoid and suspicious, and he goes to all that trouble to seize the giant war machines that were so critical to Horus, he just hands them off to someone else.  C'mon!  The fact that Horus had subverted some of the other legions was already established!  Under those circumstances, the only person he should have trusted was himself, and the only legion he should have trusted was his own.

Generally speaking, I've found Black Library books to be pretty bad.  They're about a half step above self-publishing, sometimes.  The First Legion deserved better treatment, and we as its fans certainly deserved better books.

[facmanpob]

Also also, the Lion is portrayed as being paranoid and suspicious, and he goes to all that trouble to seize the giant war machines that were so critical to Horus, he just hands them off to someone else.  C'mon!  The fact that Horus had subverted some of the other legions was already established!  Under those circumstances, the only person he should have trusted was himself, and the only legion he should have trusted was his own.

To be fair, Perturabo was still masquerading as a loyalist when this happened, but, yes, handing over the goods to the Iron Warriors doesn't fit with the paranoid Primarch depicted.

Generally speaking, I've found Black Library books to be pretty bad.  They're about a half step above self-publishing, sometimes.  The First Legion deserved better treatment, and we as its fans certainly deserved better books.

Can't agree with this statement though. Some of the BL books are truly awful, but a lot of them are well written by good authors.

[Berzul]

Taste shouldn't factor here. Noone can argue against a book because they didn't like it. Personal taste is that: Personal.

 

Now, a more objective criticism, such as the conflicting portrayal of character for the Lion, is another matter. Such flaws can be better argued as proper flaws in the narrative of the novels.

[Ashen Sabre]

Descent of Angels I found to be a nice tale, though didn't really fit in with the HH series as a whole. Fallen Angels I liked, though the depictions of the Lion are conflicting and sometimes not enjoyable(at least we get the Lion in the lore, rip tabletop Lion). Angels of Caliban is probably the best of the three, especially some of the Dreadwing scenes.

[shandwen]

 

Also also, the Lion is portrayed as being paranoid and suspicious, and he goes to all that trouble to seize the giant war machines that were so critical to Horus, he just hands them off to someone else. C'mon! The fact that Horus had subverted some of the other legions was already established! Under those circumstances, the only person he should have trusted was himself, and the only legion he should have trusted was his own.

 

 

The paranoid portion is only one part, the other part (And the reason he gave those weapons away) was his lust for authority. In his inability to read others behaviirs, he had hoped by giving those to Pert he would gain support to become the next warmaster. That desire to replace Horus was a driving factor until his banishment by Guiliman (where he finally became a team player).

[Kasper_Hawser]

I don't think the Lion took the head of Nemiel off in Fallen angels, I believe that happened in the "The Lion" short story. As for the state of the Horus Heresy DA fluff, I have personally enjoyed the stuff we have learnt in all the DA novels, each one providing more insight into the Legions workings. That being said I found Decent of Angels jarring as it went from the action to the heresy back to cover the beginning of the DA tale. As a stand alone novel it would have been ok but as part of the series it seemed off. Angels of Caliban is by far one of my favourite books in the series, just for the depiction of the Dreadwing alone. And it is clear to see the guiding hand of Alan Bligh on the lore of the legion covered in that book.

 

In the end, when all is said and done, I'm just glad the Lion is a loyalist at heart, even if he is also a massive jerk at the same time. To be fair though, he is perfectly capable of doubt and is not above seeing his faults for what it is. In the case of the chaplain's head flying off, he was very remorseful after that but time and urgency had pushed his limit to the brink, which the unfortunate chaplain then pushed him forward by insisting on enforcing an edict that would have been VERY detrimentatl to the Legion in face of all the daemonic incursions.

 

But yes, Gav Thorpe to put it bluntly, isn't a very good story teller.