Road to Veteran's - 2018

[Morticon]

So, the long haul to the Vets tournament begins now. 

For those of you that have followed these threads in the past, you'll know that the Vets tourney is a big points bash that is a culmination of the hobby as a whole. 

You get points for each game you play, points for army comp, sportsmanship and appearance. 


This year, with the advent of 8th, there's something different happening.  

Firstly, it's going to be a 3000 point game - which is exciting.

Secondly the Veteran Strike Force Detachment available to gamers is equally exciting! 

The big decision for me is whether or not I go VSFD or regular detachments - Remembering that Vets is highly comped - and no Vets has ever been won by a player with a comp score of less than 90%.

What's exciting about the VSFD is the list of strats that they gain access to. 

Here's what the VSFD and the strats look like:

 

"VETERAN'S STRIKE FORCE DETACHMENT

The following are the first draft rules for the VSFD - a unique, Veteran's Tournament detachment.

It works differently from other detachments in that it requires you have % of your army invested in certain Battlefield Roles, rather than a certain number of units.

There are also additional associated rules and restrictions and certain missions that require units be selected for certain objectives may be dictated.

The build is very restrictive, but will come with it's own perks.

At present the VSFD rules are as follows:

HQ - Minimum 10%
TROOPS - Minimum 40%
ELITE - Minimum 10%
HEAVY - Minimum 10%
FAST ATTACK - Minimum 10%

Other than TROOPS, ALL slots have a maximum of 20%

Special Rules:

TACTICAL COHERENCY
A VSFD is made up of a single codex, single faction, battleforged army.

ASSOCIATED DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
VSFDs may buy Dedicated Transports that are "Associated" with a TROOP choice. 
If they do this, the transport counts towards the Troop %, although does not gain the TROOP battlefield role. 
However, any *full* (ie: not combat-squaded) unit that has an ADT must deploy embarked in the transport at the start of the game. 
No other units may use an ADT.

COMMAND POINTS
VSFDs have a TOTAL of 20 Command Points. 
These points cannot be increased in any way, and may not be regained through any way.

STRATAGEMS
VSFDs will gain access to the majority of the listed Veteran's Stratagems."

 

 

"This year at Veteran's, we will be making extensive use of STRATAGEMS. Instead of Gubbinz and Crafting and other bonuses in days before, players can now duke it out to try get access to Stratagems - with losing players seeing a little more tricks to add to their arsenal.

Additionally, players fielding the restrictive VETERAN'S STRIKE FORCE DETACHMENT will be rewarded with access to a bucketload of these from the outset.

Enjoy.

STRATAGEMS:

Smoke Grenades - 2
Once an enemy has declared shooting at a friendly non-vehicle unit, it may deploy smoke grenades.
The enemy must subtract 1 from all hit rolls in the shooting phase against this unit. This ability stacks with other abilities to a maximum of -2 to hit. This stratagem has no use for units that already have -2 to their hit modifier.

Hand of Fate- 3
Once per turn, you may pick up and re-roll one of your enemy's die results.

Weapons Sabotage – 3
Once per game, at the start of the enemy shooting phase, and if your tech site is still alive at the start of the game turn, you may select one unit that has sabotaged weapons. The next time this unit fires its weapons they have a chance of exploding. The unit suffers a mortal wound for every hit result of 1. If any model in the target unit fires it's weapon, all models are assumed to fire. Roll for the unit, even if the weapons are out of range.

Advanced Training – 1
One Troop unit from your detachment has received advanced training. Add 1 to their to wound rolls for the phase against one target unit.

Cover, Control, Kill – 2
At the start of a friendly shooting phase, select three non-vehicle units to Cover, Control and Kill a target enemy unit. The first friendly unit must fire every available weapon at a single target- The majority of the models in the friendly unit must fire. The second unit that fires at this target unit then receives +1 to their hit rolls. The third and final selected unit that targets this enemy unit (in any phase) receives +1 to their wound rolls against the enemy.

Tactical Sacrifice – 2
If, in the enemy movement phase, an enemy unit wishes to fall out of combat, a friendly unit may perform a Tactical Sacrifice. A single, non-vehicle enemy unit is prevented from falling back from combat. However, for every 5 models in the friendly unit, d3 models are lost as they sacrifice themselves keeping the enemy locked in combat.

Spy System – 2 
Spy information has allowed you to know the enemy's plans. After an enemy declares the use of a stratagem, you may use this stratagem. The enemy must pay double the cost of the stratagem, or forfeit the use of it and the CP already used.

Vortex Grenade – 3
At the start of the battle, after deployment and after the roll for first turn, you may equip one non-character Troop or Elite unit with a Vortex Grenade. The grenade may be used in place of a shooting weapon, and has a range of 6”. 
If a hit is scored, place a marker at the desired location (it does not have to target an enemy unit). 
If the target location is occupied by an enemy model, that model suffers d6 mortal wounds (These wounds do not carry over to the rest of the unit). 
Additionally, all models within 3” of the centre of the marker suffer d3 mortal wounds.
If the target location contains an objective, that objective is destroyed. 
If the firing unit misses, the marker is placed over the firing model instead.

Explosive Ammunition - 1
Once per game, if the unit was deployed on the board at the start of the turn, the ammunition of one type of weapon in one friendly Troop unit is explosive. Add 1 to its armour penetration score. Eg: AP-2 becomes AP-3

High Capacity Magazines- 1 
Once per game, if the unit was deployed on the board at the start of the turn, one friendly Troop unit is carrying high capacity magazines. Add 1 to the Weapon type number of one type of weapon in the unit. Eg: Assault 2, becomes Assault 3.

High Velocity Ammunition – 1
Once per game, if the unit was deployed on the board at the start of the turn, the ammunition of one type of weapon in one friendly Troop unit is high velocity. Add 1to its damage rating. Eg: Damage d3 becomes damage d3+1.

Tank Mines – 3
Once per game, and if your Tech Site is still alive, after an enemy vehicle moves in its movement phase, you may trigger Tank Mines. If triggered the tank suffers 3d3 Strength 10, AP-2, 2 Damage wounds.

Stasis Missile Barrage – 2/3
Once per game, in a friendly shooting phase, and if your Tech Site is alive at the start of the game turn, you may fire 1 or d3 Stasis Missiles (2/3 respectively). Each stasis missile may target any enemy unit (including characters) and does not require line of site. 
Missiles hit on 2+, and this roll is never modified. Each missile may affect a unit of up to 15 wounds (though multiple missiles can combine to affect bigger/stronger units). 
If a hit is scored the targeted unit may not move, use or deny psychic powers, shoot or charge until the end of its next turn. Conversely, it may not be the target of any action either. 
It is essentially ignored for all game purposes, including targeting restrictions. 
A single enemy unit in combat may also be chosen as the target if the total number of wounds in the combat (target unit + friendly units) are less than the total of the missiles – in this case, all friendly units are also affected until the end of the enemy players next turn.

Tactical Reinforcements - 3
Once per game, if your Tech Site is alive at the start of the game turn, you may, at the end of your movement phase return one destroyed Troop unit from a Veteran's Strike Force Detachment to the board. This unit may include an “Associated Dedicated Transport”. You may only do this if:
The unit (and transport together) equal less that 300 points and is less than 25 wounds. The unit must be placed up to its maximum movement distance from the friendly player's board edge, and 9" away from any enemy.

Ancient Necron Technology – 3
Mindshackle Scarabs may be used on an enemy that has to take a morale check. The check may not be automatically passed, may not be re-rolled with a race-specific special ability, and must be taken at the unit's natural, unmodified leadership value as listed on their datasheet.

Corrupted STC Fragment- 2
You may select any objective on the table to be the site of the corrupted STC fragment. For the rest of the game, that objective causes one mortal wound to any unit within 3” of it at the end of every turn.

Bundle Grenades - 1
A unit armed with grenades may use this stratagem during the shooting or fight phase. One model may substitute his attacks and use a bundle grenade instead. If he hits the target, d3 mortal wounds are inflicted. This unit may no longer use any grenades for the rest of the battle.

Damned if You Do Damned if you don't. 1/2/3 
Use this stratagem at the start of your player turn. Select one of the either the movement, psychic, shooting, charging or fight phase. For the entirety of that phase for both yourself and your opponent's subsequent turn neither of you may spend command points. If either player does spend command points during that phase their opponent immediately regains command points equal to the amount of command points spent. The total regained may not exceed the amount of CP used for this stratagem +2.

Grav Pack/Boots/ AKA: Sergeants Hazkullz ridiculous rocket boots – 1
Use this stratagem during your own charge phase. One INFANTRY unit gains the fly keyword until the end of the current phase"

 

 

As you can see the VSFD is really restrictive in build, but comes with some really cool and fun perks. 


Where do you think the BA will shine and how can we best make use of these abilities? 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Morticon

[Xenith]

Just trying to think of units that could do something nasty with the rocket boots and descent of angels.

 

TDA deepstriking in with the high cap mags making them rapid fire 3 would be interesting. But then that's me.

[Charlo]

Really bloody cool as always and I wish you luck mate.

 

Looking forward to the copious list-hammer and test game reports too ;)!

 

Taking a Veterans and getting 20CP is tasty, but the not being able to be increased or regained is a minor bummer maybe? Though I suppose it stops something like Guard going easy street miner with literally limitless CP.

[Panzer]

At least our Troops are pretty strong so the 40% Troop restriction of the Veteran Detachment shouldn't hurt as much. Tho there are others with pretty strong Troop choices as well. Tyranids for example.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Love the idea of this and wish I could play.  I love the restrictions of the VSF detachment. Reminds me of old Warhammer Fantasy (except with proper percentage brackets).

 

A couple of those Stratagems look a bit off to me.  "Spy" for example...double CP cost.  So if someone wanted to Honor the Chapter or something you can REALLY screw them.  There's no restrictions on it...which means almost no one would use a 3 CP or higher stratagem for fear of getting "Spyed" on and losing 3/6 CPs.  It's a good concept, but needs some reworking.  Like, it needs to be a 1x per game thing, or the Spy stratagem needs to cost a number of CP's commensurate with what the opponent lose (if you want to force a CP attrition war, for example, because you took a VSF and they did not).

 

I think Grav Pack Boots could work really well on a unit of foot Death Company for the LOLZ/"Didn't see that coming!"  Use in tandem with forlorn fury.  (You do still get all your regular Codex stratagems, right?)

[Xenith]

If 90% of people take the vets force org and a set 20CP, then it would be very anti meta to run with a CP farming army, the combination of veritas, and imperial guard guys that gives you a net positive CP. 

 

If you start with 9 of your own, and gain CP every time your opponent uses one of their 20, then you'll end up with 30 or so, basically allowing you to honour the chapter every turn - with the risk of the spy stratagem as above. 

 

Can you counterspy? What happens then? If you play a 2 CP stratagem, then get spied, you can either burn 2CP or play spy yourself for the same CP, killing your opponents spy and keeping your original strat.

 

It's going to get complex. 

[Morticon]

Love the idea of this and wish I could play.  I love the restrictions of the VSF detachment. Reminds me of old Warhammer Fantasy (except with proper percentage brackets).

 

A couple of those Stratagems look a bit off to me.  "Spy" for example...double CP cost.  So if someone wanted to Honor the Chapter or something you can REALLY screw them.  There's no restrictions on it...which means almost no one would use a 3 CP or higher stratagem for fear of getting "Spyed" on and losing 3/6 CPs.  It's a good concept, but needs some reworking.  Like, it needs to be a 1x per game thing, or the Spy stratagem needs to cost a number of CP's commensurate with what the opponent lose (if you want to force a CP attrition war, for example, because you took a VSF and they did not).

 

I think Grav Pack Boots could work really well on a unit of foot Death Company for the LOLZ/"Didn't see that coming!"  Use in tandem with forlorn fury.  (You do still get all your regular Codex stratagems, right?)

 

Spy Network was reworked to be once per game!! 

 

 

 

 

Can you counterspy? What happens then? If you play a 2 CP stratagem, then get spied, you can either burn 2CP or play spy yourself for the same CP, killing your opponents spy and keeping your original strat.

 

It's going to get complex. 

Vets is always complex ><; 

 

And yup.  Nothing stopping you from Counter-spy. 

[Panzer]

I honestly think the Spy Stratagem is bad from a design point of view. The idea is nice but it just doesn't work out imo

[Morticon]

I honestly think the Spy Stratagem is bad from a design point of view. The idea is nice but it just doesn't work out imo

 

More thoughts for why?

[Panzer]

I just don't see what it contributes to the game except that people are less likely to use their expensive Stratagems as long as they know the opponent could activate the Spy

[Jolemai]

Have to say, I love that you're doing this through VASSAL :p :p

[Morticon]

Have to say, I love that you're doing this through VASSAL

 

Hahaha- not a chance man!!! :P Will be back home again in July for Vets.  Was back for the regionals too! 

...... except that people are less likely to use their expensive Stratagems as long as they know the opponent could activate the Spy

 

The point ^ 

[Panzer]

Yeah but I don't see the point behind that. ^^

[Charlo]

Yeah but I don't see the point behind that. ^^

 

It's a decision making meta - the opponent can only use Spy once per phase and it will cost them 2CP to do so, thus potentially costing you up to 6CP to use your strat.

 

Maybe that's worth it? Maybe it's not? Is it worth losing 3 points or getting some results from 6?

 

Maybe you try and bluff out the Spy for the phase with a weaker stratagem - or you get into a position to use the strong one then don't... Bamboozle!

 

2CP however is too cheap for this. My solution would be you can spend more CP than your opponent to negate it as currently it's just a win-win for the spy, there is no negative as you always reduce your opponents CP by the same amount as you or more.

[Panzer]

Yeah I know what it does. That's why I don't like it. I've played enough games with similar punishing mechanics and all it did was make people not use something in fear of that punishment.

 

It'll:

 - never get used on 1CP Stratagems (unless the opponent is already out of CP to pay for the Spy tax) since the Spy itself costs 2CP,

 - evens out on 2CP Stratagems (so when you use it you basically don't gain anything unless you're Stratagems are way more useful than your opponents) or gives you a CP advantage if your opponent decides to pay the tax

 - and you'd always use it on the very first time your opponent uses a 3CP Stratagem ... except that he most likely won't use any because he knows about the Spy and just trying to use a 3CP Stratagem is a loose-loose situation as long as the Spy is a possibility (unless it's a winning move in which case the Spy was useless anyway).

 

Or in short: it makes people play without 3CP Stratagems as long as the Spy is around unless they'll win with such a move and make most people not use the Spy to prevent people from using 3CP Stratagems freely.

If someone doesn't think things through and uses his Spy early in the game he played his hands and the opponent is free to do whatever he wants while still having his Spy to hinder his opponent.

 

That's a very one-sided mechanic and once people put some thought into it or played a few rounds with it it just creates a pretty annoying situation for both without adding anything to the game imo.

It's one of those things that sound pretty cool in theory but don't seem to work the way intended. I've came across such things more than a few times in modern board games already.