Tide of Traitors

[Blakklist]

Rules clarification question. Me and a buddy were trying out our tournament lists. I finally bought enough cultists to field a 40 model squad. I cast prescience on it and then use Veterans of a long war and then use tide of traitors and shoot his cannon fodder twice due to endless catastrophe. Wipe all his half worthless models off the board. His turn he spends all his attacks trying to wipe the squad. Kills 37 of them, figures the rest will die due to the moral phase but forgot about Abaddons ability that prevents that so they auto pass. On my turn I use tide of traitors again and place all 40 models back on the board. I show him the stratagem where it says “at full starting strength”. Then proceed to do exactly the same thing I did during turn 1 which ends up wiping the rest of his cannon fodder and some key units. He gets mad a rage quits saying that the wording on the stratagem means just the starting strength for that turn not the game. That doesn’t make sense to me because before the movement phase there is no way to lose models so then why would they clarify? He thinks that if the way I’m playing them is right they would win every tournament. This is the first time I have tried this tactic so I could be wrong. Looking for some clarification before I go to this tournament and try it.

[micahwc]

I believe you are correct

[Doom Herald]

You are correct.

 

Cultists are great, that's why so many people use them.

 

Starting strength is the size at the beginning of game.

Edited March 7, 2018 by ThanatosMalleus

[Kite Senet]

I agree with your interpretation of the rule as well. The Tide of Traitors stratagem is quite clearly designed for to bring back the full quantity of Chaos Cultists that you began the game with, which is to say at the unit's starting strength.

 

Your friend should keep in mind that just three more wounds would've meant you could not bring it back at all; he got slapped with the best case scenario for Tide of Traitors, where you had just a handful of Cultists left after his turn and get a full 37 cultist return for the stratagem. If you can't finish off a unit of cultists in one turn, it seems wiser to me to bring them down to half strength, where Tide of Traitors is of only middling advantage, and then spend the rest of your munitions on targets that won't just re-appear during your foe's next turn; wait till next turn to finish off the cultists. In any case, in my decidedly non-competitive opinion, the threat of Tide of Traitors should be somewhere in the back of the mind of anyone facing off against cultists; it's just one of those situations that opponents of the CSM army do need to play around.

[Panzer]

You've definitely been playing it right.

Hence why everybody takes Cultists in CSM armies.

Hence why bubble wrapping and units with scout abilities are so important to not get screwed over by "deep strike" bombs.

Hence why having lots and lots of CP is so important (it's a quite expensive tactic).

 

Funny that he brings up tournaments because on serious tournaments such a thing is strong but rarely enough to win the whole thing. There are much stronger things out there. ^^

Out of curiousity, what kind of army did your buddy play?

Edited March 7, 2018 by sfPanzer

[Blakklist]

You've definitely been playing it right.

Hence why everybody takes Cultists in CSM armies.

Hence why bubble wrapping and units with scout abilities are so important to not get screwed over by "deep strike" bombs.

Hence why having lots and lots of CP is so important (it's a quite expensive tactic).

 

Funny that he brings up tournaments because on serious tournaments such a thing is strong but rarely enough to win the whole thing. There are much stronger things out there. ^^

Out of curiousity, what kind of army did your buddy play?

Orc’s, and yeah CP are essential. I used 5 CP’s a turn with that tactic which I’m still not sure is worth it. Granted it did work. He was upset because my weakest unit did the most damage to him which open him up to my Obliterators and maulerfiends. Edited March 7, 2018 by Blakklist

[Panzer]

Well Orks don't even have their Codex yet so I'm not surprised he can't believe how some of the Stratagems etc. work. ^^

[Khornestar]

Mmmmm-MMMM, that sweet salty rage!

 

As well as your cultists did, I think it would have been fair for your opponent to consider all that you needed to do to make them so killy: bring Abaddon, mark them with Slaanesh, bring a Sorcerer, successfully cast Prescience, spend the CP on VoTLW, spend CP on Endless Cacophony, spend CP on Tide of Traitors...

 

Seems pretty reasonable that they'd kick major ass under those circumstances. Shoot, they :cuss better with all that.

[Akrim]

Cost about 500+ points and several CP to pull off, what a baby.

 

Next time take a min Renegade detachment with three Punishers. : D

[HeresyBeliever]

Alpha legion Cultists!

 

1 CP to Start then 9 inch's away from the enemy 

Turn one move then shoot then charge.

 

End of their turn 1 hope you have not lost enough to loss the whole unit to morale or pay 2 CP's to pass

 

Your turn 2 use Tide of traitors to bring them all back somewhere for another 2 CP's  

 

I have 2 units of 40 + unit of 10 with a Dark Apostle and Exalted Champ for the Battalion Detachment.  

Re-rolling hits and wounds in combat can be manic on the first turn 

 

You can also use the cultists to box in your opponent. Doesn't work with Tau as everything flies but most armies you can get them stuck with no where to go.  

[techsoldaten]

To the OP: how did you cast Prescience on the Cultists before using ToT? Isn't ToT triggered at the end of the Movement phase?

[Blakklist]

To the OP: how did you cast Prescience on the Cultists before using ToT? Isn't ToT triggered at the end of the Movement phase?

I didn’t I just listed it out of order.